All Things P.J. Fleck Rumor Mill Thread - Listed as Candidate for Other Jobs

Bob_Loblaw

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I think PJ actually would be a good fit for Texas. Their issues over the last few years have been almost entirely culture. All of the reports have been that Longhorn players are soft/selfish. There is tons of talent there, tons of money, and PJ would continue to kill it in recruiting.

With all of these jobs, they have a juggernaut rival (Alabama (Auburn), Ohio State (Michigan), Oklahoma (Texas)), but I think their juggernaut rival could be more vulnerable. Texas should be able to recruit with Oklahoma - - the same will not be able to said about Ohio State and Alabama. In short, I think the path to get Texas on Oklahoma's level is clearer than the other two big programs.

All of that said, I'm not sure if Texas would be interested in PJ. PJ is still a little bit of a gamble and I think if Texas buys out Herman it's for an absolute home run. My guess- - it still ends up being Urban Meyer.

If they pursue Fleck, I think Fleck leaves. It's a great opportunity, it could be the best opportunity in college football (top program, top recruiting ground, the program has lost enough that it will give him some time to develop).
 

UpAndUnder43

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I think PJ actually would be a good fit for Texas. Their issues over the last few years have been almost entirely culture. All of the reports have been that Longhorn players are soft/selfish. There is tons of talent there, tons of money, and PJ would continue to kill it in recruiting.

With all of these jobs, they have a juggernaut rival (Alabama (Auburn), Ohio State (Michigan), Oklahoma (Texas)), but I think their juggernaut rival could be more vulnerable. Texas should be able to recruit with Oklahoma - - the same will not be able to said about Ohio State and Alabama. In short, I think the path to get Texas on Oklahoma's level is clearer than the other two big programs.

All of that said, I'm not sure if Texas would be interested in PJ. PJ is still a little bit of a gamble and I think if Texas buys out Herman it's for an absolute home run. My guess- - it still ends up being Urban Meyer.

If they pursue Fleck, I think Fleck leaves. It's a great opportunity, it could be the best opportunity in college football (top program, top recruiting ground, the program has lost enough that it will give him some time to develop).
If Urban Meyer coaches Texas in 2021, I'll buy you something real nice from Goldys Lockerroom. It isn't happening.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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If Urban Meyer coaches Texas in 2021, I'll buy you something real nice from Goldys Lockerroom. It isn't happening.
You'd probably know more than I would, I haven't followed it very closely. I just read the thing where he said "he'd need the perfect scenario", to me that sounds like "I'd be interested if you back up the Brink's trunk". But I certainly could be reading too much into this.

I wonder if there is any dollar amount that could make Kyle Shanahan interested? He's an alum, he's young and the 49ers job could be one of those sneaky dead ends. With making the Super Bowl and Jimmy G locked in as their QB, it kind of feels like he is destined to "underperform" in the eyes of the media/fans.

I just can't see them moving from Herman without a big name coming in.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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I think PJ actually would be a good fit for Texas. Their issues over the last few years have been almost entirely culture. All of the reports have been that Longhorn players are soft/selfish. There is tons of talent there, tons of money, and PJ would continue to kill it in recruiting.

With all of these jobs, they have a juggernaut rival (Alabama (Auburn), Ohio State (Michigan), Oklahoma (Texas)), but I think their juggernaut rival could be more vulnerable. Texas should be able to recruit with Oklahoma - - the same will not be able to said about Ohio State and Alabama. In short, I think the path to get Texas on Oklahoma's level is clearer than the other two big programs.

All of that said, I'm not sure if Texas would be interested in PJ. PJ is still a little bit of a gamble and I think if Texas buys out Herman it's for an absolute home run. My guess- - it still ends up being Urban Meyer.

If they pursue Fleck, I think Fleck leaves. It's a great opportunity, it could be the best opportunity in college football (top program, top recruiting ground, the program has lost enough that it will give him some time to develop).
I think Fleck's culture is why he won't end up at a big time school in the SEC, Pac 12, or Big 12. I think it is a negative on the recruiting trail, and it would be hard for Fleck to land full classes of mostly 4* and 5* recruits.

When you're landing recruits at that level, they mostly want to play football until they can jump to the NFL. For many, it could be very difficult to hold them accountable in school and off the field. Due to this, Fleck doesn't seem like a fit for any school where winning football games is the #1 priority, and needs to be done at all costs.

The only school I could see Fleck leaving for is Notre Dame. Thankfully they will be in the CFP this season.
 

manderson1984

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I think Fleck's culture is why he won't end up at a big time school in the SEC, Pac 12, or Big 12. I think it is a negative on the recruiting trail, and it would be hard for Fleck to land full classes of mostly 4* and 5* recruits.

When you're landing recruits at that level, they mostly want to play football until they can jump to the NFL. For many, it could be very difficult to hold them accountable in school and off the field. Due to this, Fleck doesn't seem like a fit for any school where winning football games is the #1 priority, and needs to be done at all costs.

The only school I could see Fleck leaving for is Notre Dame. Thankfully they will be in the CFP this season.
This seems to be the consensus from a lot of media types as well
 

Pete smith

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Apparently some of you disagree with Iowa State where 5star culture beat 5 star players at Texas.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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I think Fleck's culture is why he won't end up at a big time school in the SEC, Pac 12, or Big 12. I think it is a negative on the recruiting trail, and it would be hard for Fleck to land full classes of mostly 4* and 5* recruits.

When you're landing recruits at that level, they mostly want to play football until they can jump to the NFL. For many, it could be very difficult to hold them accountable in school and off the field. Due to this, Fleck doesn't seem like a fit for any school where winning football games is the #1 priority, and needs to be done at all costs.

The only school I could see Fleck leaving for is Notre Dame. Thankfully they will be in the CFP this season.
Winning fits at every school.


I also don't buy into the idea that 'fleck culture' is really all that different than what other coach's sell.
 

Vandy

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I think Fleck's culture is why he won't end up at a big time school in the SEC, Pac 12, or Big 12. I think it is a negative on the recruiting trail, and it would be hard for Fleck to land full classes of mostly 4* and 5* recruits.

When you're landing recruits at that level, they mostly want to play football until they can jump to the NFL. For many, it could be very difficult to hold them accountable in school and off the field. Due to this, Fleck doesn't seem like a fit for any school where winning football games is the #1 priority, and needs to be done at all costs.

The only school I could see Fleck leaving for is Notre Dame. Thankfully they will be in the CFP this season.
Pretty solid thinking right there. (paragraph #2)
 

GopherJack

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For the right school and the right offer, is there a chance PJ would tone down his Row the Boat culture and just implement a more "normal" culture so as to not piss off the alums, administration and fans?
 

MplsGopher

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All of the "control" and "salesmanship" goes out the window in the NFL.

In the league, it's just about strategy, matchups, and having the best players (and getting the most out of the players you do have, via strategy and matchups). I think that would take a lot of the enjoyment out of it for Fleck. I think he enjoys the other aspects of his job, more than the pure strategy part of it.
 

2nd Degree Gopher

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For the right school and the right offer, is there a chance PJ would tone down his Row the Boat culture and just implement a more "normal" culture so as to not piss off the alums, administration and fans?
I don't think he would abandon RTB or his culture because he believes that's the way to build a program. Part of the over the top public pronouncements, slogans and endless acronyms is driven by his commitment to basic principles and those won't change much. But some of his bombastic nature is to generate attention. You need to draw that attention at Western Michigan and, to a somewhat lesser extent, Minnesota. He's toned it down some since he's been here as he's become more established. The HC at Notre Dame, USC, Texas, Michigan, etc. already gets the attention he desires. The platform that he strives to build here would be handed to him as part of the contract at those types of places.
 

MplsGopher

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I don't think he would abandon RTB or his culture because he believes that's the way to build a program. Part of the over the top public pronouncements, slogans and endless acronyms is driven by his commitment to basic principles and those won't change much. But some of his bombastic nature is to generate attention. You need to draw that attention at Western Michigan and, to a somewhat lesser extent, Minnesota. He's toned it down some since he's been here as he's become more established. The HC at Notre Dame, USC, Texas, Michigan, etc. already gets the attention he desires. The platform that he strives to build here would be handed to him as part of the contract at those types of places.
I think he genuinely enjoys developing young men into well rounded people. Enjoys developing that culture and developing a program to do that, where it wasn't before. Selling that, to the fanbase and the larger CFB community. Selling that, to recruits and their families.

That's what I think Fleck enjoys most about his job.

Obviously, he knows he needs to win for people to buy in (fully) to what he's trying to do. And he's a great competitor, like any coach, so he hates losing.
 

TNGophfan

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All of the "control" and "salesmanship" goes out the window in the NFL.

In the league, it's just about strategy, matchups, and having the best players (and getting the most out of the players you do have, via strategy and matchups). I think that would take a lot of the enjoyment out of it for Fleck. I think he enjoys the other aspects of his job, more than the pure strategy part of it.
Don't necessarily disagree but I see a lot of Pete Carroll in PJ and he's done pretty well with the rah-rah.
 

SJUgopher

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For the right school and the right offer, is there a chance PJ would tone down his Row the Boat culture and just implement a more "normal" culture so as to not piss off the alums, administration and fans?
I don’t think so. By all accounts this is who he is. I don’t see him doing it any other way but his.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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I don’t think so. By all accounts this is who he is. I don’t see him doing it any other way but his.
Yeah, successful people need to adapt but they should never change the essence of their personality and what made them successful. PJ's style is a pretty big reason why he's had success.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Don't necessarily disagree but I see a lot of Pete Carroll in PJ and he's done pretty well with the rah-rah.
Yeah, I don't really think all "rah rah" types are the same. Pete Carroll was an NFL guy for 17 years prior to going into the college game (including multiple stints as a HC). When he was at USC, the program was ran like an SEC program (for better or worse) or like an NFL program. He surrounded himself with top notch recruiters and recruited the hell out of California - SEC style. You would never have looked at USC and thought that they win because they recruit to their culture and are disciplined culture from top to bottom.

What PJ and Pete have in common is that their players seem to really love them and they are good at public speaking with tons of energy. I think Pete Carroll is much more similar to Nick Saban than he is PJ Fleck.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Yeah, I don't really think all "rah rah" types are the same. Pete Carroll was an NFL guy for 17 years prior to going into the college game (including multiple stints as a HC). When he was at USC, the program was ran like an SEC program (for better or worse) or like an NFL program. He surrounded himself with top notch recruiters and recruited the hell out of California - SEC style. You would never have looked at USC and thought that they win because they recruit to their culture and are disciplined culture from top to bottom.

What PJ and Pete have in common is that their players seem to really love them and they are good at public speaking with tons of energy. I think Pete Carroll is much more similar to Nick Saban than he is PJ Fleck.
Good post.

I used to look at USC's FB recruiting page and just fawn over what their targets/commits position ranking were - they were basically never over 10.
 

60's Guy

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Yeah, I don't really think all "rah rah" types are the same. Pete Carroll was an NFL guy for 17 years prior to going into the college game (including multiple stints as a HC). When he was at USC, the program was ran like an SEC program (for better or worse) or like an NFL program. He surrounded himself with top notch recruiters and recruited the hell out of California - SEC style. You would never have looked at USC and thought that they win because they recruit to their culture and are disciplined culture from top to bottom.

What PJ and Pete have in common is that their players seem to really love them and they are good at public speaking with tons of energy. I think Pete Carroll is much more similar to Nick Saban than he is PJ Fleck.
I’d disagree with that. Carrolll does a lot of the same motivation stuff in meetings that PJ does. I would not be surprised to hear that PJ has borrowed ideas from Carroll. Carroll and PJ incorporate fun pretty often. Carroll damn near runs on the sideline like PJ. Both are quick to celebrate. Carroll brings in speakers, people do skits to make a point and get guys to relax and laugh. I think the two cultures are similar.
Saban is rigid in his beliefs. He’s a throw back disciplinarian. It works because he wins and puts guys in the NFL. Saban is all business in season. He lightens up in the off season but Lane Kiffin would tell you he’s relentless in season. And Saban by contrast is quick to tear somebody a new a-hole on the sideline. Pretty rare he celebrates even a little. I don’t see many similarities at all for Carroll being like Saban. How so?
 

MplsGopher

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I’d disagree with that. Carrolll does a lot of the same motivation stuff in meetings that PJ does. I would not be surprised to hear that PJ has borrowed ideas from Carroll. Carroll and PJ incorporate fun pretty often. Carroll damn near runs on the sideline like PJ. Both are quick to celebrate. Carroll brings in speakers, people do skits to make a point and get guys to relax and laugh. I think the two cultures are similar.
Saban is rigid in his beliefs. He’s a throw back disciplinarian. It works because he wins and puts guys in the NFL. Saban is all business in season. He lightens up in the off season but Lane Kiffin would tell you he’s relentless in season. And Saban by contrast is quick to tear somebody a new a-hole on the sideline. Pretty rare he celebrates even a little. I don’t see many similarities at all for Carroll being like Saban. How so?
Bolded: but Carroll doesn't go out of his way to convert his informally known culture into an explicitly stated and marketed/signed/branded culture. He doesn't try to change "everybody knows in Pete Carroll's meeting room, it's OK to be relaxed, to tell a joke, to laugh" into having signs on the door that say "This is Fleck-Culture, you will comply with: 1) L.A.U.G.H - Loud And Unruly Grownup Humor, ...." etc.

That's the big difference. Carroll doesn't invent slogans and then plaster the walls with them. Doesn't physically change uniforms to add totems for the culture.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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I’d disagree with that. Carrolll does a lot of the same motivation stuff in meetings that PJ does. I would not be surprised to hear that PJ has borrowed ideas from Carroll. Carroll and PJ incorporate fun pretty often. Carroll damn near runs on the sideline like PJ. Both are quick to celebrate. Carroll brings in speakers, people do skits to make a point and get guys to relax and laugh. I think the two cultures are similar.
Saban is rigid in his beliefs. He’s a throw back disciplinarian. It works because he wins and puts guys in the NFL. Saban is all business in season. He lightens up in the off season but Lane Kiffin would tell you he’s relentless in season. And Saban by contrast is quick to tear somebody a new a-hole on the sideline. Pretty rare he celebrates even a little. I don’t see many similarities at all for Carroll being like Saban. How so?
I hear what you're saying. Their personalities are different but I think their styles and why they were successful in the college game were similar. But you're right, their personalities were different.

When it comes to Pete Carroll's success at USC, it was really the thing in bold. He won because he got the best players who wanted to make it to the NFL. That was really the reason USC hired him (lets get an NFL guy in here and sell the path to the NFL to the recruiting rich California). For Saban at Alabama and Carroll at USC, it was clear, they were selling "this is the path to the NFL".

Other similarities:
They were both defense first coaches who really like run-first football.
They both acquired tons of talent around them on offense and loosened up their offenses.
They both were hiring these sort of big personality assistant coaches and let them do their thing and recruit (some of them hired the same people (Kiffin, Sarkesian)
 

WHB Brewer

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Good post.

I used to look at USC's FB recruiting page and just fawn over what their targets/commits position ranking were - they were basically never over 10.
Pretty easy to do that when cash and other benefits are at the ready. Reggie Bush gave back his headman due to extra benefits and Pete left just before the NCAA hammer was coming down
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Pretty easy to do that when cash and other benefits are at the ready. Reggie Bush gave back his headman due to extra benefits and Pete left just before the NCAA hammer was coming down
True, but I was young and naïve then - not really, but it's a great line.:party:
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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