All Things Impeachment Inquiry

Section2

Well-known member
Or maybe the President has been basing foreign policy on a ludicrous conspiracy theory with zero factual basis and rational human beings find that memorable.

Or maybe the President held up Congressionally mandated foreign aid for no good reason and rational human beings found that memorable.

Or maybe people whose job it was to manage relations with another country were having their efforts stymied by the President's whacko personal lawyer and rational human beings found that memorable.
The president sets foreign policy. It's right there in the constitution. Sorry unelected bureaucrats, deal with it.
 

justthefacts

Active member
The president sets foreign policy. It's right there in the constitution. Sorry unelected bureaucrats, deal with it.
This is such lazy analysis. It could be used to excuse anything. If President Pete Buttigieg gets paid $1B to his personal bank account from China to nuclear bomb South Korea, this would still apply.

Plus, you, and many others, keep ignoring the fact that the law says Trump had to give the funds to Ukraine. The law. You're basically arguing that the President is King.

Regardless, whether Trump can act as Emperor in matters of foreign policy wasn't the question. Ogee was suggesting the only reason that some Trump appointee might have a clear recollection of any of these events was because s/he was coached, which is just laughable on its face.
 

KillerGopherFan

Active member
[
This is such lazy analysis. It could be used to excuse anything. If President Pete Buttigieg gets paid $1B to his personal bank account from China to nuclear bomb South Korea, this would still apply.

Plus, you, and many others, keep ignoring the fact that the law says Trump had to give the funds to Ukraine. The law. You're basically arguing that the President is King.

Regardless, whether Trump can act as Emperor in matters of foreign policy wasn't the question. Ogee was suggesting the only reason that some Trump appointee might have a clear recollection of any of these events was because s/he was coached, which is just laughable on its face.
Presidents violating the law by ignoring them is not unusual. For instance, Obama’s DACA executive order is unconstitutional, but b/c it’s popular among the majority of Americans, Republicans didn’t do anything about it until the Trump administration brought it to the SCOTUS. Was Obama acting like a King by signing this EO?

Trump waited as long as he could to release the aid before pressure from Senators to do so became too high AND b/c the budget deadline was about to end. The reason for withholding the aid has been argued, but the fact that the President was using all the practical leverage he could to do so is not unique.

And I agree, most of these career diplomats and policy experts don’t/didn’t need coaching. They think they know better than amateurs and object to their high minded views being questioned or overridden. Political appointees to diplomatic positions may result in clumsy relations, but they also ensure that the foreign policy of the US is not ruled by these unelected bureaucrats who want to execute their own ideas of what’s important and ignore foreign interference in US elections that they deem understandable.
 

Section2

Well-known member
This is such lazy analysis. It could be used to excuse anything. If President Pete Buttigieg gets paid $1B to his personal bank account from China to nuclear bomb South Korea, this would still apply.

Plus, you, and many others, keep ignoring the fact that the law says Trump had to give the funds to Ukraine. The law. You're basically arguing that the President is King.

Regardless, whether Trump can act as Emperor in matters of foreign policy wasn't the question. Ogee was suggesting the only reason that some Trump appointee might have a clear recollection of any of these events was because s/he was coached, which is just laughable on its face.
LOL, nice try.
 

justthefacts

Active member
[

Presidents violating the law by ignoring them is not unusual. For instance, Obama’s DACA executive order is unconstitutional, but b/c it’s popular among the majority of Americans, Republicans didn’t do anything about it until the Trump administration brought it to the SCOTUS. Was Obama acting like a King by signing this EO?

Trump waited as long as he could to release the aid before pressure from Senators to do so became too high AND b/c the budget deadline was about to end. The reason for withholding the aid has been argued, but the fact that the President was using all the practical leverage he could to do so is not unique.

And I agree, most of these career diplomats and policy experts don’t/didn’t need coaching. They think they know better than amateurs and object to their high minded views being questioned or overridden. Political appointees to diplomatic positions may result in clumsy relations, but they also ensure that the foreign policy of the US is not ruled by these unelected bureaucrats who want to execute their own ideas of what’s important and ignore foreign interference in US elections that they deem understandable.
I can't believe these unelected bureaucrats thought they knew better than amateurs who think Crowdstrike is a Ukrainian company. The nerve.
 

howeda7

Well-known member
This is such lazy analysis. It could be used to excuse anything. If President Pete Buttigieg gets paid $1B to his personal bank account from China to nuclear bomb South Korea, this would still apply.

Plus, you, and many others, keep ignoring the fact that the law says Trump had to give the funds to Ukraine. The law. You're basically arguing that the President is King.

Regardless, whether Trump can act as Emperor in matters of foreign policy wasn't the question. Ogee was suggesting the only reason that some Trump appointee might have a clear recollection of any of these events was because s/he was coached, which is just laughable on its face.
The entire GOP argument is basically "Trump is King and can do anything he wants." And yes, it's so hard to believe that 12 different government employees would remember details about something like the President extorting a foreign country a whole 2 months after it happened. Clearly they were coached!
 

Section2

Well-known member
Congress controls power of the purse and POTUS executes. It's right there in the Constitution.
Not debating that point. The point is, the impeachment inquiry included a lot of bureaucrats discussing their disagreements with the presidents foreign policy. Too bad.
 

Section2

Well-known member
The entire GOP argument is basically "Trump is King and can do anything he wants." And yes, it's so hard to believe that 12 different government employees would remember details about something like the President extorting a foreign country a whole 2 months after it happened. Clearly they were coached!
Extorting viscerally. They think he’s king! Because... he leveraged a WH meeting. First time in history! Breaking norms!!
 

cncmin

Well-known member
The point is they are unelected. And the president decides FP. And you are afraid of the election. You should be.
You act as if the sane people in 1930s Germany shouldn't have been afraid of what awaited them in the form of the insane. Fear is, in this case, justified.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Wow, you guys have really lost your minds. There's a MASSIVE scandal in Ukraine, but it's not Trump that's going down for it.

Trump's going to emerge from these false charges unscathed, just like he has from the other false charges. People outside the neo-liberal twitterverse, are on to this crap.
 

Section2

Well-known member
You act as if the sane people in 1930s Germany shouldn't have been afraid of what awaited them in the form of the insane. Fear is, in this case, justified.
I know you really want to believe that Republicans and trump are just like nazis and hitler, but it’s ridiculous. Trump tweets a lot. He wants to limit immigration. He wants different trade deals, he cut taxes.
His opponents spied on his campaign, he has had every agency in the federal government sabotaging and spying on him, he’s been under investigation and impeachment since inauguration.
Which one reminds you of an authoritarian party?

You hate him and he triggers you. That doesn’t make him Hitler.
 

cncmin

Well-known member
I know you really want to believe that Republicans and trump are just like nazis and hitler, but it’s ridiculous. Trump tweets a lot. He wants to limit immigration. He wants different trade deals, he cut taxes.
His opponents spied on his campaign, he has had every agency in the federal government sabotaging and spying on him, he’s been under investigation and impeachment since inauguration.
Which one reminds you of an authoritarian party?

You hate him and he triggers you. That doesn’t make him Hitler.
I didn't call him Hitler. He's more like Mussolini. Or Commodus. I might relate YOU to those in 1930s Germany who blindly followed a demagogue, however. Get it now?
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
The point is they are unelected. And the president decides FP. And you are afraid of the election. You should be.
Being elected means ... what?

That you're a populist, basically. Appealing to the bottom of the barrel, to get enough people who don't deserve the vote they cast, to cast them for you.

I trust experts and intelligence. Being elected doesn't mean jack s__t to me.
 

cncmin

Well-known member
Being elected means ... what?

That you're a populist, basically. Appealing to the bottom of the barrel, to get enough people who don't deserve the vote they cast, to cast them for you.

I trust experts and intelligence. Being elected doesn't mean jack s__t to me.

Exactly. Expert opinions should hold high priority over those of elected officials. This goes for science, politics, history, foreign affairs, ... [everything].
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Exactly. Expert opinions should hold high priority over those of elected officials. This goes for science, politics, history, foreign affairs, ... [everything].
Now this is classic. Cinnebon agreeing with the poster that both lefties and righties have acknowledged is the biggest fraud, troll and buffoon on the board. Most everyone else has figured out their bit by now. I guess it takes longer for some than others.
 

cncmin

Well-known member
Now this is classic. Cinnebon agreeing with the poster that both lefties and righties have acknowledged is the biggest fraud, troll and buffoon on the board. Most everyone else has figured out their bit by now. I guess it takes longer for some than others.
dude, come on.
 

cncmin

Well-known member
Republicans are stupid. Exhibit #1,992,228. May my non-fans give me $1,000,000 for my inauguration.

Pirro certainly doesn't believe this. But she knows that 99% of her nitwitted viewers will. Control the populace through lies and deception, Jeanine Goebbels. What a patriot!
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Vox hires intelligent writers to write with intelligence.

Intelligence is the enemy of Christianity and the Republican party.

Therefore, Vox is not a valid source.
 
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