All things Derek Chauvin trial

[stocker08]

Man-2 is automatic.

Chauvin already agreed to plea guilty to murder-3, because he is guilty of that. No reason not to at least confirm that.

I definitely think 3rd degree is more fitting.

 

[Plausible Deniability]

You are claiming to never have stated “I can’t breathe” ever in your life? Could it be that saying “I can’t breathe” actually means something like “I am having a difficult time breathing right now with you kneeling on my neck and two other guys pressing me to the ground, thus compressing my chest?”

I'm guessing over the course of any given month, the cops hear criminals say just about anything and everything from here to the moon to get out of their current situation. Probably every day of the week.

Having not had the pleasure of routinely dealing with criminals who are whacked out on multiple illicit drugs, I guess I'm not in a position to say exactly how I would respond in that situation. Those have to be incredibly difficult decisions to make and I"m sure situations like that are highly prone to quick, snap and sometimes incorrect judgment calls.

Best not to put yourself in a position with the cops where they may do something you don't like.

 

[BarnBurner]

If see that for all nine minutes, you are watching a different channel.

Who said all nine minutes? Shill working overtime to stay away from fact.

 

[mnvballdad]

He was also claiming he couldn't breathe in the back of the squad car, long before he was retrained. Just as he did in his previous arrest where he swallowed his drugs, OD'd had respiratory distress and had to be rushed to the hospital.

Also, yesterday the Chief of Police testified Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's shoulder blade, not Floyd's neck & that the EMT's could not have checked Floyd's pulse if Chauvin was kneeling on his carotid artery as the prosecution claims.

In one still frame after the paramedics arrived. By no means was that where his knee was throughout the encounter.

 

[MplsGopher]

In one still frame after the paramedics arrived. By no means was that where his knee was throughout the encounter.

Correct. He probably only moved it to his shoulder blade because they asked him to, because they needed to check his pulse.

Wonder if Chauvin ever even bothered to check his pulse, at any time. Guessing no.

 

[MplsGopher]

I guess I'm not in a position to say exactly how I would respond in that situation.

I'm guessing you wouldn't kneel on a man's neck for several minutes after he is no longer resisting you.

Because, I'm assuming, you're a normal person.

 

[GopherJake]

I'm guessing over the course of any given month, the cops hear criminals say just about anything and everything from here to the moon to get out of their current situation. Probably every day of the week.

Having not had the pleasure of routinely dealing with criminals who are whacked out on multiple illicit drugs, I guess I'm not in a position to say exactly how I would respond in that situation. Those have to be incredibly difficult decisions to make and I"m sure situations like that are highly prone to quick, snap and sometimes incorrect judgment calls.

Best not to put yourself in a position with the cops where they may do something you don't like.

You should tune into the trial and you would learn what a cop’s obligations are with regard to reassessing the situation when the situation changes and it becomes blatantly obvious the person they have subdued is in urgent medical distress.

As usual, you don’t know what you are talking about.

 

[atsgopher]

His anxiety and condition absolutely played a role ... in that they caused him to not cooperate and eventually physically resist. If he hadn't resisted, he'd be alive today.

Of course, anyone who's reasonable acknowledges that just resisting doesn't mean you get to kill the person.


The drug use is a red herring. It doesn't matter if someone has just decided to commit suicide and taken a lethal dose of drugs. You're still a murderer if you kill them before they would've died from the dose naturally.

I think our differences is only your speaking from a legal perspective as it relates to Chauvin’s culpability, and I am discussing it as it relates to Floyd’s physiology. I’d agree on the culpability perspective.

However, I wouldn’t doubt Chauvin did that a lot and likely for longer. He’s a dick. That used to be used all over the country.

Floyd just happened to be someone who appeared one way on the outside (Strong), yet his innards were ripe for said tragedy.

 

[MplsGopher]

However, I wouldn’t doubt Chauvin did that a lot and likely for longer.

Sure. He's likely gotten away with all kinds of untold things over his career.

Floyd just happened to be someone who appeared one way on the outside (Strong), yet his innards were ripe for said tragedy.

This doesn't jive for me.

Take the biggest, strongest guy you can find, who is sober as a preacher -- you can bring them down as easily as anyone, if you know the right spots to attack. The neck is still a relatively weak spot.

Just because, maybe, some other people didn't die, doesn't mean most people likely wouldn't die.

 

[atsgopher]

Sure. He's likely gotten away with all kinds of untold things over his career.

This doesn't jive for me.

Take the biggest, strongest guy you can find, who is sober as a preacher -- you can bring them down as easily as anyone, if you know the right spots to attack. The neck is still a relatively weak spot.

Just because, maybe, some other people didn't die, doesn't mean most people likely wouldn't die.

That was a common neck restraint for many years. All accross the country.

Someone from my old Army Platoon is a use of force expert for Madison. They started moving away from this a decade ago. It is generally a non lethal maneuver; given a healthy individual. Anyone could die, but the risk would still be extremely low. Floyd had multiple risk factors that made him more likely.

 

[MplsGopher]

It is generally a non lethal maneuver; given a healthy individual. Anyone could die, but the risk would still be extremely low.

Such a thing can't actually be stated without a controlled study. And of course, such a study could never be performed.

Guessing if you randomly sampled 200k people of all ages 18-50 let's say, races, etc., so long as they were generally considered healthy and did the following study:

- half randomly assigned to be handcuffed behind back, laid chest down on a hard surface, and cop the size of Chauvin kneels on their shoulder blade for 9 mins
- other half randomly gets the same, except kneels on neck for 9 mins

you'd see the neck group with vastly larger death rate. What would that rate be? That is the question. I would not be surprised if at least 20% died.

 

[howeda7]

Found guilty or not you’ll see a repeat of last summer.

You're hoping for it it seems.

 

[USAF]

The entire "drug overdose" thing is a red herring.

None of the officers could have known how much, if any, drugs had been ingested.

Therefore their actions should be judged without benefit of drug levels as an excuse.

Chauvin kneeled on a restrained man's neck for 9 minutes, as he died.

He's a murderer.

 

[atsgopher]

Such a thing can't actually be stated without a controlled study. And of course, such a study could never be performed.

Guessing if you randomly sampled 200k people of all ages 18-50 let's say, races, etc., so long as they were generally considered healthy and did the following study:

- half randomly assigned to be handcuffed behind back, laid chest down on a hard surface, and cop the size of Chauvin kneels on their shoulder blade for 9 mins
- other half randomly gets the same, except kneels on neck for 9 mins

you'd see the neck group with vastly larger death rate. What would that rate be? That is the question. I would not be surprised if at least 20% died.

The denial of empirical experience is niave at best. Your lecturing birds on flying.

 

[MplsGopher]

The denial of empirical experience

What empirical evidence?

 

[Wally]

I'm guessing over the course of any given month, the cops hear criminals say just about anything and everything from here to the moon to get out of their current situation. Probably every day of the week.

Having not had the pleasure of routinely dealing with criminals who are whacked out on multiple illicit drugs, I guess I'm not in a position to say exactly how I would respond in that situation. Those have to be incredibly difficult decisions to make and I"m sure situations like that are highly prone to quick, snap and sometimes incorrect judgment calls.

Best not to put yourself in a position with the cops where they may do something you don't like.

There was really nothing that difficult in the 9 minute video.

 

[GoldenRodents]

1) You're changing the subject of your earlier post, and

2) in said earlier post, you said he could kneel on your NECK without harming you, so now you're changing the substance as well.


Did or didn't Chauven do this all the time?

What explains his nonchalance in the video? This was standard operating procedure for him. Then he encountered Floyd, who looked very healthy but was hiding serious heart problems under that size and muscle. I bet Chauvin did the same routine scores of times to noncooperating suspects in his career.

 

[MplsGopher]

As reasonable people already knew: CRG (and others) were lying their asses off.

https://apnews.com/article/derek-chauvin-trial-live-updates-day-7-322955cf7a62c1f8aaf9fa2bc6732d20

Expert: Chauvin never took knee off Floyd's neck

Officer Derek Chauvin had his knee on George Floyd’s neck — and was bearing down with most of his weight — the entire time the Black man lay facedown with his hands cuffed behind his back, a use-of-force expert testified Wednesday at Chauvin’s murder trial.

Jody Stiger, a Los Angeles Police Department sergeant serving as a prosecution witness, said that based on his review of video evidence, Chauvin’s knee was on Floyd’s neck from the time officers put Floyd on the ground until paramedics arrived — about 9 1/2 minutes, by prosecutors’ reckoning.

Prosecutor Steve Schleicher showed jurors a composite image of five photos taken from various videos of the arrest. Stiger went through each photo, saying it appeared that the Minneapolis officer’s left knee was on Floyd’s neck or neck area in each one.

 

[saintpaulguy]

Who said all nine minutes? Shill working overtime to stay away from fact.

I have no idea what your argument is. Is It if someone resists arrest, you get to use any measure of force available after he stops resisting? I‘d say reasonable people agree that an unresponsive person doesn’t pose much of a threat, especially one who is handcuffed, and perhaps the restraint used after that was unnecessary.
There are things to quibble about here, but I can’t imagine watching the guy die, something every one there saw coming but the guy on top of him, is a reasonable behavior by an agent of the state.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Why? Why? Easiest way for o make themselves appear virtuous.

Many possible reasons. Distance the MPD from liability would be my 1st guess.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

I have no idea what your argument is. Is It if someone resists arrest, you get to use any measure of force available after he stops resisting? I‘d say reasonable people agree that an unresponsive person doesn’t pose much of a threat, especially one who is handcuffed, and perhaps the restraint used after that was unnecessary.
There are things to quibble about here, but I can’t imagine watching the guy die, something every one there saw coming but the guy on top of him, is a reasonable behavior by an agent of the state.

Sadly, the left ran with a false narrative of racism & murder, so it's taken a year for the facts to catch up to the lies. Now, with the facts coming to light, your point is what Chauvin should really be on trial for. Was he negligent in assisting Floyd once he was not breathing, or went limp? If so, 2nd degree manslaughter, or perhaps whatever's below that even, would seem like more just punishments.

That said, I was outraged when I saw the initial footage & was certain this was murder. With more facts however my opinion has changed. That's where I'm at with your point as well. At this moment I think Chauvin's guilty of negligence for not assisting Floyd when he stopped breathing. What I don't have yet, is an explanation for why he did this from the defense? It seems doubtful, but perhaps there's a policy, or reason that explains why he didn't act, that I haven't heard yet?

 

[saintpaulguy]

Many possible reasons. Distance the MPD from liability would be my 1st guess.

That horse left the barn to the tune of 27 million.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

What explains his nonchalance in the video? This was standard operating procedure for him. Then he encountered Floyd, who looked very healthy but was hiding serious heart problems under that size and muscle. I bet Chauvin did the same routine scores of times to noncooperating suspects in his career.

I agree 100% on this point. Chauvin looks like this is just routine procedure for him. A technique he's done this a thousand times.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

We no longer have to speculate as to why Floyd's drug dealer Morries Hall is pleading the 5th.

"his lawyer contends anything he says about his alleged drug activity with George Floyd could leave him vulnerable to being charged with third-degree murder in the death of the 46-year-old Black man."

Man in car with George Floyd the day he died doesn't want to testify in Derek Chauvin trial

 

[BarnBurner]

I have no idea what your argument is. Is It if someone resists arrest, you get to use any measure of force available after he stops resisting? I‘d say reasonable people agree that an unresponsive person doesn’t pose much of a threat, especially one who is handcuffed, and perhaps the restraint used after that was unnecessary.
There are things to quibble about here, but I can’t imagine watching the guy die, something every one there saw coming but the guy on top of him, is a reasonable behavior by an agent of the state.

My argument is you are attempting to paint quite a picture. An inaccurate picture.

 

[BarnBurner]

We no longer have to speculate as to why Floyd's drug dealer Morries Hall is pleading the 5th.

"his lawyer contends anything he says about his alleged drug activity with George Floyd could leave him vulnerable to being charged with third-degree murder in the death of the 46-year-old Black man."

Man in car with George Floyd the day he died doesn't want to testify in Derek Chauvin trial

Take care of your friend, mr red hat red shoe.

 

[MplsGopher]

I agree 100% on this point. Chauvin looks like this is just routine procedure for him. A technique he's done this a thousand times.

Hence why 3rd, not 2nd, degree murder is appropriate.

No need for intent.

 

[BarnBurner]

That horse left the barn to the tune of 27 million.

Well, you understand that nugget.

 

[saintpaulguy]

My argument is you are attempting to paint quite a picture. An inaccurate picture.

Please share your thoughts. I shared mine, and as you can see above, CRG has similar thoughts. Perhaps you can add something to the conversation.

 

[saintpaulguy]

Well, you understand that nugget.

So it isn’t likely that the police are basing their behavior on trying to save the city money.