All things Derek Chauvin trial


Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
7,714
Reaction score
3,687
Points
113
I agree with you on this. He is most definitely guilty of something but second degree murder? I don’t know.

Manslaughter would probably be appropriate if I look at it honestly. I just hope he has to serve at least 5 years.
 

golfing18now

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
2,346
Reaction score
960
Points
113
Manslaughter would probably be appropriate if I look at it honestly. I just hope he has to serve at least 5 years.
I should probably look more closely at the exact wording behind the charges. Not a lawyer. But manslaughter was the first thing that came to mind for me too. Whatever happens, I hope we don’t see a repeat of last summer. I’m not optimistic.
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
7,714
Reaction score
3,687
Points
113
I should probably look more closely at the exact wording behind the charges. Not a lawyer. But manslaughter was the first thing that came to mind for me too. Whatever happens, I hope we don’t see a repeat of last summer. I’m not optimistic.
MN Law

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or
 

PhiloVance

Active member
Joined
Mar 4, 2021
Messages
429
Reaction score
233
Points
43
I should probably look more closely at the exact wording behind the charges. Not a lawyer. But manslaughter was the first thing that came to mind for me too. Whatever happens, I hope we don’t see a repeat of last summer. I’m not optimistic.
If guilty is manslayghter he may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:
 


golfing18now

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
2,346
Reaction score
960
Points
113
MN Law

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or
Thanks for posting. The negligence angle would seem to fit here. I haven’t seen intent yet in any of the videos I’ve seen. But it’s also hard to see the rationalization for doing what he did in any of the videos. Depressing set of circumstances.
 

Slim Tubby

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
1,782
Reaction score
341
Points
83
I agree with you on this. He is most definitely guilty of something but second degree murder? I don’t know.

On the one hand, I can’t get the image of him going silent and yet the officers still sitting on him out of my mind.

But on the other hand, it doesn’t reconcile with his repeated declarations of not being able to breathe long before he was on the ground.
The knee on the neck for 9 minutes is what ultimately killed Floyd but you raise a very intriguing point about the difficulty breathing prior to being taken to the ground (if true...I haven’t heard that personally but I watch virtually no TV).

It’s going to be very hard to prove Chauvin’s “intent” was to kill. I want him to do Max time in the pen and a sympathetic jury is his worst nightmare IMO.
 

GopherJake

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
18,253
Reaction score
2,113
Points
113
But on the other hand, it doesn’t reconcile with his repeated declarations of not being able to breathe long before he was on the ground.
You are claiming to never have stated “I can’t breathe” ever in your life? Could it be that saying “I can’t breathe” actually means something like “I am having a difficult time breathing right now with you kneeling on my neck and two other guys pressing me to the ground, thus compressing my chest?”
 

Triple D

Active member
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
762
Reaction score
64
Points
28
You are claiming to never have stated “I can’t breathe” ever in your life? Could it be that saying “I can’t breathe” actually means something like “I am having a difficult time breathing right now with you kneeling on my neck and two other guys pressing me to the ground, thus compressing my chest?”
"I can't breathe" could also be from being whacked out from taking Fentanyl and also having Covid, bad combo.
 



Angry

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
2,028
Reaction score
491
Points
83
I should probably look more closely at the exact wording behind the charges. Not a lawyer. But manslaughter was the first thing that came to mind for me too. Whatever happens, I hope we don’t see a repeat of last summer. I’m not optimistic.
Found guilty or not you’ll see a repeat of last summer.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
23,986
Reaction score
2,272
Points
113
Thanks for posting. The negligence angle would seem to fit here. I haven’t seen intent yet in any of the videos I’ve seen. But it’s also hard to see the rationalization for doing what he did in any of the videos. Depressing set of circumstances.
I'm not sure he's even guilty of manslaughter, but 2nd degree manslaughter would make a hell of a lot more sense than murder. 2nd degree murder the left is calling for means Chauvin intentionally murdered Floyd, which is nonsense. No one with 2 years until retirement intentionally murders a suspect, who did nothing but resist a bit, in front of a dozen witnesses & on camera.

The only thing I can see that puts Chauvin at risk of any conviction, is how long he kept Floyd pilled to the ground after he went limp. Up until that point, I see nothing criminal by Chauvin.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
23,986
Reaction score
2,272
Points
113
"I can't breathe" could also be from being whacked out from taking Fentanyl and also having Covid, bad combo.

Not just a lethal dose of fentanyl, but mixed with meth. He was speedballing. The same thing that happened in his previous arrest when he swallowed the drugs, OD'd, had respiratory failure & had to be rushed to the hospital.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
23,986
Reaction score
2,272
Points
113
You are claiming to never have stated “I can’t breathe” ever in your life? Could it be that saying “I can’t breathe” actually means something like “I am having a difficult time breathing right now with you kneeling on my neck and two other guys pressing me to the ground, thus compressing my chest?”

He was also claiming he couldn't breathe in the back of the squad car, long before he was retrained. Just as he did in his previous arrest where he swallowed his drugs, OD'd had respiratory distress and had to be rushed to the hospital.

Also, yesterday the Chief of Police testified Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's shoulder blade, not Floyd's neck & that the EMT's could not have checked Floyd's pulse if Chauvin was kneeling on his carotid artery as the prosecution claims.
 



Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
23,986
Reaction score
2,272
Points
113
The knee on the neck for 9 minutes is what ultimately killed Floyd but you raise a very intriguing point about the difficulty breathing prior to being taken to the ground (if true...I haven’t heard that personally but I watch virtually no TV).

It’s going to be very hard to prove Chauvin’s “intent” was to kill. I want him to do Max time in the pen and a sympathetic jury is his worst nightmare IMO.
Objection your honor. That is speculation.

I'll try to find the footage Keith Ellison withheld for months of Floyd complaining he couldn't breath in the back of the squad car. He asked the cops to lie him on the ground. The cops then put Floyd into the "recovery position" (which they're trained to do for overdose victims) on the ground until the ambulance came.
 


PeoplesFront

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
400
Reaction score
308
Points
63
Assume this isn't a lie, and assume you're not lying about the affects of these levels of drugs on a person's body. (likely you're lying your ass off)

The logical end to your argument is: it should not be illegal to murder someone, in any manner desired, if they've recently decided to commit suicide and taken a lethal dose of drugs.


Which of course is silly.

Again, who is telling you that those levels of opioids are objectively compatible with life without respiratory support? You can’t.
 


BarnBurner

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
15,148
Reaction score
2,155
Points
113
He was going to code out on drugs. Stop breathing on his own. Seems lIke something that does not need that level of restraint, if true.
You missed the resistance to arrest. By error I am sure.
 

BarnBurner

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
15,148
Reaction score
2,155
Points
113
I agree with you on this. He is most definitely guilty of something but second degree murder? I don’t know.

On the one hand, I can’t get the image of him going silent and yet the officers still sitting on him out of my mind.

But on the other hand, it doesn’t reconcile with his repeated declarations of not being able to breathe long before he was on the ground.
Not being able to breathe while continuing to resist arrest. Huh.
 

golfing18now

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
2,346
Reaction score
960
Points
113
You are claiming to never have stated “I can’t breathe” ever in your life? Could it be that saying “I can’t breathe” actually means something like “I am having a difficult time breathing right now with you kneeling on my neck and two other guys pressing me to the ground, thus compressing my chest?”

Absolutely makes sense when he was on the ground. But he also made that claim a number of times prior to being put on the ground (as others have mentioned too).
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
7,714
Reaction score
3,687
Points
113
"I can't breathe" could also be from being whacked out from taking Fentanyl and also having Covid, bad combo.

I would venture to guess that no one in all human history has ever uttered the words I can't breathe when overdosing on opioids. By definition you aren't conscious enough to even know you can't or aren't breathing.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
24,268
Reaction score
5,856
Points
113
Again, who is telling you that those levels of opioids are objectively compatible with life without respiratory support?
The logical end to your argument is: it should not be illegal to murder someone, in any manner desired, if they've recently decided to commit suicide and taken a lethal dose of drugs.
 


MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
24,268
Reaction score
5,856
Points
113
No, George Floyd’s anxiety, drug use and condition played a role.
His anxiety and condition absolutely played a role ... in that they caused him to not cooperate and eventually physically resist. If he hadn't resisted, he'd be alive today.

Of course, anyone who's reasonable acknowledges that just resisting doesn't mean you get to kill the person.


The drug use is a red herring. It doesn't matter if someone has just decided to commit suicide and taken a lethal dose of drugs. You're still a murderer if you kill them before they would've died from the dose naturally.
 





stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
24,364
Reaction score
5,645
Points
113
Floyd was having trouble breathing and Chauvin decided to lay him on his stomach, face down, with a knee on his neck. I could see 2nd degree manslaughter.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
24,268
Reaction score
5,856
Points
113
Floyd was having trouble breathing and Chauvin decided to lay him on his stomach, face down, with a knee on his neck. I could see 2nd degree manslaughter.
Man-2 is automatic.

Chauvin already agreed to plea guilty to murder-3, because he is guilty of that. No reason not to at least confirm that.
 




Top Bottom