All things Derek Chauvin trial

GoldenRodents

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The law is as it's written, and you can't change it just because you don't like it.

If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime.
I actually am getting a better picture if Chauvin's legal culpability here. Thanks to this forum of all things.

The trial will always have the taint of bullying attacks on due process. And the defense attorney in no way resembled OJ's legal team. He looked intimidated by the personal threats. His performance has been panned as weak by legal scholars.

I actually had a couple ancestors executed in the Salem witch trials. When the public wants blood, cowardly government officials will give them blood.
 

saintpaulguy

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What a sad condition of policing with the detained man dying with a blood oxygen level of 98%. Where was emergency medical? This didn't start when the knee went down on Floyd. I don't believe it was any secret he was dying of cadiac arrest as a result of a drug overdose. Denied but well known. People dying of ODs are hard to work with and that requires special considerations. Floyd would have died whether Chauvin was on him or not. He should have been demanding emergency medical treatment for Floyd. He didn't react properly. As a guess, I would say he was "showing off" for the rookies. Great training, huh? Both Chauvin and what's her name were training rookies. Shockingly bad decsions by the patrol captains making those assignments. Chauvin was grossly negligent in restraining a dead man. She didn't have the presence of mind to know which weapon was in her hand? I would surmise I am the only one who has worn and used both weapons on my service belt that posts here. Doesn't make me an expert in the liberal mind but I do speak from experience. Both cops were 20 year veterans of their departments. Gross city and police department negligence. Both the city and police departments are as responsible as the officers that displayed this totally unacceptable behavior. Very sad state of TC governmental affairs. Don't compare military response with policing. I have done both and know that doesn't make any sense. Both these cops were experienced in time as an officer, but neither one should have been wearing a badge, ever. Remember that this monetary settlements are your tax dollars.
He was being given supplemental oxygen in the ambulance before the 98% measure took place. Given his medical history, a smoker with Covid exposure, it was probably the highest number he had in weeks.
 

saintpaulguy

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You can and should be able to question the actions of the victim that led to most of these interactions. It's just not being honest if you don't. That's different than saying the ultimate killing was justified. You also can and should be able to question the actions of the police officer. The problem right now is most people are on one extreme or the other. We won't solve this problem until there is a little more honesty from all involved, not just emotion.
It seems some of the posters above think we should spot the police a few errors, in order to keep them properly aggressive against crime. Kinda like when a grocer buys a case of onions--the contract states a maximum spoilage rate.
I can't think of a process that gets better when you ignore failure, but apparently policing is one of them.
This department is at the point where people are choosing to do without rather than call for help. It's tragic, and I think unwise, but it is a sign that as managed currently, it is not working.
Chauvin was going to show that crowd who was boss, and show his trainees how to be the boss. There is no legitimacy of state force here. He was just being needlessly cruel, and he is going to prison.
 

jamiche

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There is no problem in the neighborhoods I live in. I wonder why? Here’s the answer for you- it’s because people don’t do illegal stupid sh&t every day. Fix your own problem.
People do illegal and stupid shit every day in Hugo too, galty. It's just that it's a nice, all white place, so it's seen through a different prism.
 

jamiche

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Aren’t you cute with your little retort. Now maybe you can provide a serious answer to why crime is up over 20% in Minneapolis? I dare you to...but you know the reason, so here comes the sarcasm.
If I had taken galty's SLT seminar I would have seen that post coming. Damn!

When 25% of the police force (Kroll's Kids) effectively quits because they can't bang the way they used to and the other 75% goes into passive aggressive mode because they can't bang the way they used to and they are feeling under appreciated, mostly young and very angry black kids who are inclined to cause trouble are going to feel emboldened. Secondly, the city is trying to figure out what a different kind of policing looks like. When you have a narrow minded city council and a weak mayor combined with a weak mayoral system, it's going to lengthen that process. The city has been very hot. Hopefully, things will calm down and crime will begin to drop.

The days of Mpls cops beating and killing black residents are, hopefully, over. This little one sided war has been going on since the riots in the 60's. The difference now is cameras and if a cop shoots a black person in the Twin Cities, everybody has to live with the consequences, not just the victim's friends and family.
 

jamiche

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What a sad condition of policing with the detained man dying with a blood oxygen level of 98%. Where was emergency medical? This didn't start when the knee went down on Floyd. I don't believe it was any secret he was dying of cadiac arrest as a result of a drug overdose. Denied but well known. People dying of ODs are hard to work with and that requires special considerations. Floyd would have died whether Chauvin was on him or not. He should have been demanding emergency medical treatment for Floyd. He didn't react properly. As a guess, I would say he was "showing off" for the rookies. Great training, huh? Both Chauvin and what's her name were training rookies. Shockingly bad decsions by the patrol captains making those assignments. Chauvin was grossly negligent in restraining a dead man. She didn't have the presence of mind to know which weapon was in her hand? I would surmise I am the only one who has worn and used both weapons on my service belt that posts here. Doesn't make me an expert in the liberal mind but I do speak from experience. Both cops were 20 year veterans of their departments. Gross city and police department negligence. Both the city and police departments are as responsible as the officers that displayed this totally unacceptable behavior. Very sad state of TC governmental affairs. Don't compare military response with policing. I have done both and know that doesn't make any sense. Both these cops were experienced in time as an officer, but neither one should have been wearing a badge, ever. Remember that this monetary settlements are your tax dollars.
We missed our mall cop.
 
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If I had taken galty's SLT seminar I would have seen that post coming. Damn!

When 25% of the police force (Kroll's Kids) effectively quits because they can't bang the way they used to and the other 75% goes into passive aggressive mode because they can't bang the way they used to and they are feeling under appreciated, mostly young and very angry black kids who are inclined to cause trouble are going to feel emboldened. Secondly, the city is trying to figure out what a different kind of policing looks like. When you have a narrow minded city council and a weak mayor combined with a weak mayoral system, it's going to lengthen that process. The city has been very hot. Hopefully, things will calm down and crime will begin to drop.

The days of Mpls cops beating and killing black residents are, hopefully, over. This little one sided war has been going on since the riots in the 60's. The difference now is cameras and if a cop shoots a black person in the Twin Cities, everybody has to live with the consequences, not just the victim's friends and family.
Just curious if you had any thoughts on ways to reform the Mpls PD?
 

BarnBurner

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Jamm Jamm Clan with excuses after excuses for criminals.

Criminals good. Police bad.
 

GopherJake

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Welcome back from Covid, again, CantGet. Glad you pulled through.

What a sad condition of policing with the detained man dying with a blood oxygen level of 98%. Where was emergency medical? This didn't start when the knee went down on Floyd. I don't believe it was any secret he was dying of cadiac arrest as a result of a drug overdose. Denied but well known. People dying of ODs are hard to work with and that requires special considerations. Floyd would have died whether Chauvin was on him or not.
What a complete crock of shit. You tip us all off in the first sentence by (purposely) misunderstanding the meaning of the statistic you cite. Just really really dumb. Good headline, horrible understanding of what it means.

"Buxton hits HUGE 2 run homer in 10th!!!"

Your assertion that he would have died no matter what is beyond stupid and "2nd level" asinine.

He should have been demanding emergency medical treatment for Floyd. He didn't react properly. As a guess, I would say he was "showing off" for the rookies. Great training, huh? Both Chauvin and what's her name were training rookies. Shockingly bad decsions by the patrol captains making those assignments. Chauvin was grossly negligent in restraining a dead man. She didn't have the presence of mind to know which weapon was in her hand? I would surmise I am the only one who has worn and used both weapons on my service belt that posts here. Doesn't make me an expert in the liberal mind but I do speak from experience. Both cops were 20 year veterans of their departments. Gross city and police department negligence. Both the city and police departments are as responsible as the officers that displayed this totally unacceptable behavior. Very sad state of TC governmental affairs. Don't compare military response with policing. I have done both and know that doesn't make any sense. Both these cops were experienced in time as an officer, but neither one should have been wearing a badge, ever.
Great post section. Quite the contrast. Even your "look at me and how much I know about everything and you don't - and you libs are owned" part is interesting.

Remember that this monetary settlements are your tax dollars.
That settlement was one of the dumbest moves I've ever seen a city council make. I hate the term "woke," but that was classic "we are going to right the wrongs of history." Colossally stupid move and timing. The primary thing everyone cared about was justice for Chauvin, not a payoff (a record payoff) to the family. That's the icing, not the meal.

I lit up my council guy in an e-mail (to his credit, he's very responsive no matter if it's positive or negative), he rationalized and passed the buck to the city attorneys in response and I lit him up again 10x. The entire city council is taking a verbal beating on NextDoor. Challenges are coming all over the city for the upcoming election. If anyone here lives in Minneapolis and HATES the "defund the police" message as much as I do, please figure out and advocate for someone who has half a fucking brain and will not vote for morons who settle record cases DURING jury selection and have such moronic messaging.
 

Section2

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And there are at least 100 of the the first for every one of the second.
Yes. And it seems like there are 250 mentally ill, young white socialists for every black one.
 

stocker08

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You're answering the question. The city has turned into a gigantic 'no go zone'. The police are being defunded, unwanted, and neutered by the city council and mayor's office. The increase in crime in Minneapolis and St. Paul to a lesser degree is the result. Once again: Congratulations. This is what the people (actually a very, very small minority) have wanted.

False. Fake news from Alex Jones and the infowars mob.
 

stocker08

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I actually am getting a better picture if Chauvin's legal culpability here. Thanks to this forum of all things.

The trial will always have the taint of bullying attacks on due process. And the defense attorney in no way resembled OJ's legal team. He looked intimidated by the personal threats. His performance has been panned as weak by legal scholars.

I actually had a couple ancestors executed in the Salem witch trials. When the public wants blood, cowardly government officials will give them blood.

The trial will be remembered for the overwhelming amount of evidence pointing to Chauvin's actions killing George Floyd. The aftermath will be remembered for the old white man right wingers whining and crying about how the white police officer should have gotten away with killing an unarmed black man.
 

jamiche

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Just curious if you had any thoughts on ways to reform the Mpls PD?
Just general thoughts that probably aren't unique.

First of all, "Defund the Police" is a misnomer and a terrible slogan. Somebody should hire Frank Lutz to come up with a catchy phrase. There does need to be a reallocation of resources to do things differently, but not a defunding.

There have been a number of article written recently about how American police forces are under trained compared to other wealthy nations and the training emphasis is on firearms and "winning" instead of deescalation. Firearms continuing ed is typically once or twice a year and often just a power point with little or no time on the range.

Finally, I think very few cops live in the city. That has to change.
 

jamiche

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Yes. And it seems like there are 250 mentally ill, young white socialists for every black one.
I think there are as many commie revolutionaries in the TC as there were anti-fifi leaders of last year's Mpls riots that you were able to actually locate. We do know there are thousands running around in your head.
 
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Just general thoughts that probably aren't unique.

First of all, "Defund the Police" is a misnomer and a terrible slogan. Somebody should hire Frank Lutz to come up with a catchy phrase. There does need to be a reallocation of resources to do things differently, but not a defunding.

There have been a number of article written recently about how American police forces are under trained compared to other wealthy nations and the training emphasis is on firearms and "winning" instead of deescalation. Firearms continuing ed is typically once or twice a year and often just a power point with little or no time on the range.

Finally, I think very few cops live in the city. That has to change.
Agree 100%. Especially the point about cops not living in the city they're policing.
 

saintpaulguy

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Chauvin Verdict Brings the Police Relief and Some Resentment​

Unions and chiefs applauded the guilty verdict against Derek Chauvin, but rank-and-file officers were left feeling anxious.

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Inspector Charles Adams, a Minneapolis precinct’s commanding officer, said that Derek Chauvin’s actions were wrong and that they cast a negative light on policing.

Inspector Charles Adams, a Minneapolis precinct’s commanding officer, said that Derek Chauvin’s actions were wrong and that they cast a negative light on policing.Credit...Andrea Ellen Reed for The New York Times
John Eligon Shaila Dewan
By John Eligon and Shaila Dewan
April 21, 2021
MINNEAPOLIS — It was shortly after 4 p.m. on Tuesday, and all chatter ceased in the roll-call room for the Fourth Police Precinct in North Minneapolis. Everyone’s attention was glued to the television on the wall.
Then came the verdict: Derek Chauvin was guilty on all counts, including murder, for killing George Floyd last May. The station house stayed silent, the officers processing what the verdict meant after a year of tension and conflict, said Inspector Charles Adams, the precinct’s commanding officer.
“It was just like, wow,” Inspector Adams said.
For him, it was a relief — he felt that Mr. Chauvin had been wrong and that his actions, kneeling on Mr. Floyd’s neck for more than nine minutes, cast a negative light on policing.
But the verdict did little to end months of upheaval and anxiety in his profession.
“So much is being thrown at us as law enforcement officials,” Inspector Adams said. “We’re unsure how we’re going to police in the future.”
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Police chiefs and unions across the country condemned Mr. Chauvin’s actions and applauded the jury's verdict, but not always with the same zeal or for the same reasons. Some said they hoped it would restore faith in the criminal justice system. Others said it would help keep the peace. And still others indicated that it would clear the way for “honest discussion” about policing.

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The feelings of rank-and-file officers were more complicated: a mix of relief, resentment at being vilified alongside Mr. Chauvin and unsettling thoughts of themselves in his shoes.
“They’re thinking, ‘Man, I’ve got to think long and hard before I get out of my car and get into something I don’t have to get into,’” said Jim Pasco, the executive director of the national Fraternal Order of Police.
In the Minneapolis station house, Inspector Adams heard of remarks from a few rank-and-file officers who believed the defense’s argument that drugs killed Mr. Floyd and that Mr. Chauvin had followed his training.
“Some just think he got a raw deal,” Inspector Adams said. “But there’s a lot of them who think he was guilty, too.”

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The full extent of the fallout for Mr. Chauvin will be known on June 16, when he is scheduled to be sentenced.
He is being held alone in a cell in a maximum-security prison in Oak Park Heights, Minn., a Twin Cities suburb. He is allowed out for exercise for only an hour each day. Even then, he is kept away from other inmates. Prison officials said Mr. Chauvin was being kept in solitary for his own safety.
Outside the Twin Cities, in rural communities where “Back the Blue” banners hang in storefronts, Mr. Chauvin’s trial at times seemed a world away. There, largely white police departments patrol largely white communities, and residents are often friends or relatives of law enforcement officers.


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Demonstrators celebrated Derek Chauvin’s guilty verdict at the memorial where he killed George Floyd.

Demonstrators celebrated Derek Chauvin’s guilty verdict at the memorial where he killed George Floyd.Credit...Victor J. Blue for The New York Times
In Gilbert, Minn., a community of about 2,000 three hours north of Minneapolis, Ty Techar, the police chief, said he watched only about an hour of the trial and 30 seconds of the body-camera footage. While he said that what Mr. Chauvin did would be unacceptable in his department, he stopped short of saying he agreed with the verdict.
“For me to sit here and make a judgment on whether he got a fair trial, I don’t know all the evidence,” he said. “I haven’t looked at it closely enough.”

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He added: “Is it second-degree murder or manslaughter? I don’t know much about the case.”
Police unions historically have been the staunchest defenders of officers, even those accused of wrongdoing. They did not defend Mr. Chauvin, but some used the verdict as an occasion to criticize public figures who have scrutinized the police.
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The Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis said in a statement that it wanted “to reach out to the community and still express our deep remorse for their pain” and that “there are no winners in this case.”
“We need the political pandering to stop and the race-baiting of elected officials to stop,” the statement said. “In addition, we need to stop the divisive comments and we all need to do better to create a Minneapolis we all love.”
Police and union officials have argued that the consistent pressure some community members and elected leaders place on law enforcement can be a detriment.
In Minneapolis, there are several efforts to significantly downsize the Police Department and create a new public safety division. The governor of Minnesota has come out in support of a bill to limit police traffic stops for minor infractions. The Justice Department on Wednesday announced a broad civil rights investigation into the Minneapolis Police Department.
Inspector Adams said that several officers were now hesitant to perform even some of the most basic duties like traffic stops, worrying that such situations might escalate and get them in trouble.
In New York, a union leader seemed to play on such anxieties.
“It is hard to imagine a tougher time to be a member of the law enforcement profession,” Ed Mullins, the president of the Sergeants Benevolent Association, wrote in a letter after the verdict was announced. He warned members that their every action was being recorded and that “scores of attorneys” were eager to sue them.
“Our elected officials are complicit in perpetuating the myth that we are the enemy,” he added.
Attitudes like that, activists said, speak to the resistance of law enforcement to be held accountable and allow police abuses to continue.
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Some police officials said the backlash to Mr. Chauvin’s actions actually provided an opportunity to improve.
“I think it takes us a step closer toward reform,” said Michael S. Harrison, Baltimore’s police commissioner. “It doesn’t make it harder to do our jobs. It makes it where we have to train better, and use best practices and we have to do our job the right way.”
The guilty verdict was a significant reminder for officers to stay within their training, said Rick Smith, the police chief in Kansas City, Mo.
“I think officers understand that going outside the norms leads to potential issues,” he said. “And this one highlighted that in the hundredth degree across the nation.”
Inspector Adams said he believed that the judicial process ultimately helped the profession regain some of its credibility. Nine current and retired members of the Minneapolis Police Department testified against Mr. Chauvin at trial, including the police chief.
That testimony, Inspector Adams said, showed the public that Mr. Chauvin was not representative of the Minneapolis police. The prosecution’s assertion during closing arguments that its case was against Mr. Chauvin, not the police, also helped, he said.
After Chief Medaria Arradondo testified that Mr. Chauvin acted outside of department policy, Inspector Adams said he texted him to say he was proud to belong to his staff.
 

mnvballdad

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I actually am getting a better picture if Chauvin's legal culpability here. Thanks to this forum of all things.

The trial will always have the taint of bullying attacks on due process. And the defense attorney in no way resembled OJ's legal team. He looked intimidated by the personal threats. His performance has been panned as weak by legal scholars.

I actually had a couple ancestors executed in the Salem witch trials. When the public wants blood, cowardly government officials will give them blood.
Did you just compare Chauvin, who murdered a man ON CAMERA, to the Salem Witch Trials?
 

From the Parkinglot

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Just general thoughts that probably aren't unique.

First of all, "Defund the Police" is a misnomer and a terrible slogan. Somebody should hire Frank Lutz to come up with a catchy phrase. There does need to be a reallocation of resources to do things differently, but not a defunding.

There have been a number of article written recently about how American police forces are under trained compared to other wealthy nations and the training emphasis is on firearms and "winning" instead of deescalation. Firearms continuing ed is typically once or twice a year and often just a power point with little or no time on the range.

Finally, I think very few cops live in the city. That has to change.
Nowhere was Chauvin trained to do this. I personally do not believe that more training would have stopped this from happening. This guy was an ass hole that should have been fired a long time ago. Somehow he was not either from the police union protection or just dumb luck. I do wish one of the other officers should have had the guts to tackle Chauvin in the 9 MINUTES this took place. That may have very well avoided the whole thing. As much as incident bystanders should not be prosecuted if they don’t help a stranger, those 3 cops need to be charged and found guilty of something. Their job is to serve and protect and at that moment it was to protect Floyd from Chauvin, not the other way around.
 

GopherJake

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That's pretty long, but I think a good read.
I'd say the last block is what we are striving for and that good cops support. The preceding is a bunch of snowflake cop talk that is why we are where we are.

Overlooked in all of this is that the situation with George Floyd immediately was spiked to crisis with one officer's power-play and totally unwarranted move: The first officer to encounter Floyd IMMEDIATELY pointed a gun at his face and started making demands. For a $20 counterfeiting. Does anyone here, besides John Galt, believe this was warranted? The entire incident escalated at that moment. That was incredibly bad policing. That decision escalated the situation and endangered Floyd, the public and the police officers. It was incredibly stupid. In my opinion, that constitutes an illegal act as well.
 

Section2

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That's pretty long, but I think a good read.
I had a long conversation with a Richfield cop this week, and he’s been taking jiu jitsu. He thinks tasers are basically worthless, especially outside summer months in MN. Especially for someone high on drugs. Good martial arts much more effective in stopping someone. He just prays he never has to use his gun, thinks things will never get better, and is counting the days til retirement. It was pretty depressing.
 
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