All things Derek Chauvin trial

saintpaulguy

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Testimony from the Police Chief adding to the prosecution's case that Chauvin did not follow stated police procedure in his arrest of Floyd. A number of the higher-ranking police personnel who have testified have basically agreed that Chauvin was not in line with department guidelines.

The defense has tried to show that officers have leeway to handle cases based on the level of perceived threat, and are trying to show Floyd was a threat because of his size and drug use.

it seems fairly clear that the defense is hitting the drug evidence hard to try and create reasonable doubt. they only need one or two jurors to buy the argument that Floyd's cause of death was due to drug use and pre-existing heart problems - not because of anything Chauvin did during the arrest.
And the defense has the official autopsy to back up their argument.
You have to explain how the guy is both a raging threat and likely to take a permanent nap in his own. He was so drugged he was unable to breathe on his own, so we had three guys hold him down while handcuffed.
 

stocker08

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Take Chauvin’s knee and the other drugs found in George’s system out of the equation. George had 11ng/ml fentanyl and 5.6ng/ml norfentanyl in his system by the time the toxicology report was taken. Who the hell is telling you that those levels of opioids are objectively compatible with human life without proper respiratory support?

None of that matters. Zero. Floyd had an issue with abusing drugs. The main difference between all of the other times he took these drugs and the day he died was that this time he was face first on the ground with a knee on his neck.

Everything would be a completely different story if Chauvin would have listened to people telling him that Floyd wasn't breathing. If he had made ANY effort to check Floyd when things went south....he probably wouldn't be looking at 3rd degree murder. But on top of the fact that he completely disregarded the fact that he was in in danger....he contributed to the danger. Take into consideration that Floyd and Chauvin had some prior run-ins....and now malicious intent enters the conversation.
 


Costa Rican Gopher

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Look, I know it's quite the quibble but the statement is false.
Not sure how anyone could prove that, especially considering the Medical Examiner said the amount of fentanyl in Floyd's system was enough to kill him alone & that had he been found somewhere they would have called this an overdose & the case would have been over?
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Take Chauvin’s knee and the other drugs found in George’s system out of the equation. George had 11ng/ml fentanyl and 5.6ng/ml norfentanyl in his system by the time the toxicology report was taken. Who the hell is telling you that those levels of opioids are objectively compatible with human life without proper respiratory support?
In addition to methamphetamine, all while nursing a bad heart.
 


saintpaulguy

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Refuse to testify for your friend who died. High high character.
He possibly is a real dirt ball. He still has rights, including the right not to self incriminate. I’m not sure what you think he has to offer that would help his friend. I can’t believe it’s very good if the state hasn’t offered him immunity for his testimony.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Logical leap. If he sold illegal drugs, that is enough to want to refuse to testify.
The war on drugs is not a sole invention of the Left. The Right can own a lot of it. It hasn’t worked as currently designed, because the punishment for violating the law is weak and random, and doesn’t pretend to acknowledge the demand side.

I don't think he's afraid of being arrested for selling drugs. I think he's afraid of being arrested forf 3rd degree murder of George Floyd, as often happens to the dealers who sell the drugs people OD on.

I didn't mean to insinuate the Democrats invented the war on drugs. Both the Democrats and Republicans rightfully own that. What I mean is that with the left pouring so much money, focus & emotion into getting Derek Chauvin, & crying racism, they're missing the larger opportunity to help Black people by targeting the war on drugs. To me, George Floyd's dead because of the WOD. Had it not been illegal to buy fentanyl, Floyd would not have had to exchange the $20 with his drug dealer that seems to have strated thre chain of events, nor would Floyd have had to swallow the drugs, nor would the cops have had a reason to restrain him.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Testimony from the Police Chief adding to the prosecution's case that Chauvin did not follow stated police procedure in his arrest of Floyd. A number of the higher-ranking police personnel who have testified have basically agreed that Chauvin was not in line with department guidelines.

The defense has tried to show that officers have leeway to handle cases based on the level of perceived threat, and are trying to show Floyd was a threat because of his size and drug use.

it seems fairly clear that the defense is hitting the drug evidence hard to try and create reasonable doubt. they only need one or two jurors to buy the argument that Floyd's cause of death was due to drug use and pre-existing heart problems - not because of anything Chauvin did during the arrest.
And the defense has the official autopsy to back up their argument.
He also testified that Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's shoulder blade, rather than on his neck.

 





Gopher_In_NYC

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George Floyd's girlfriend Courteney Ross testified they bought drugs from the "friend" Morries Lester Hall. That's significant because it shines some light on things. It lends credibility to the idea that Floyd OD'd from swallowing drugs, as he did in his previous arrest. In the previous arrest where he OD'd, Floyd was foaming at the mouth, complaining of stomach pain & was in respiratory distress. On the day he died, Floyd was foaming at the mouth, complaining of stomach pain & appeared to be in respiratory distress PRIOR to being restrained. The judge has confirmed that you can see a white dot on Floyd's tongue, that the police claim was the drugs he swallowed. The medical examiner said he had a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system, but it wasn't just a lethal dose, it was so much more than a human could safely consume that it's hard to imagine anyone would intentionally take that amount. Unless...they were a convicted felon in possession of narcotics who didn't want to go back to jail. While the overdose theory is nothing more than connecting dots & not proof positive, it certainly creates a reasonable doubt as to whether or not Floyd simply OD'd?

Now overlay this with Maurice Lester Hall refusing to testify FOR his "friend" and the prosecution, & it seems likely that Hall's concern is that if it's determined Floyd OD'd, that Hall would be charged with 3rd degree murder in Floyd's death for selling him the drugs, and THAT'S why he's pleading the 5th.

This would be a great time for the left to have a national discussion about the war on drugs and it's negative consequences, rather than gin up racism & seek the persecution of the cop, rather than the laws he was enforcing.

Good Lord man, is there no limit to you cognitive abilities. Previously you have shared with us your acumen in the following areas (excuse a mere moral like myself, if I missed any): legal, law enforcement, African-American studies, infectious diseases and now this -

1617738355556.png

Thank you for deigning to impart your wisdom for free to the board - da Vinci ain't got nuthin on you, boo!
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Good Lord man, is there no limit to you cognitive abilities. Previously you have shared with us your acumen in the following areas (excuse a mere moral like myself, if I missed any): legal, law enforcement, African-American studies, infectious diseases and now this -

Thank you for deigning to impart your wisdom for free to the board - da Vinci ain't got nuthin on you, boo!
You know this because you shared your own impressive acumen in every single one of those discussions.
 

GoldenRodents

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Chauvin perpetrated an act eminently dangerous to another and evinced a depraved mind in doing so.

He didn't think it was eminently dangerous, he was so strangely confident in himself while the videos ran and citizens objected.

My hunch is that Chauven did this kind of suspect restraint all the time with no ill effects. My hunch is that he could do the same on my or @MplsGopher's neck all day with no death.

A cop with two years until retirement doesn't knowingly destroy himself on video.

As for depraved indifference to human life, doesn't that describe a man with heart failure overdosing on Fentanyl?
 



Wally

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George had 11ng/ml fentanyl and 5.6ng/ml norfentanyl in his system by the time the toxicology report was taken. Who the hell is telling you that those levels of opioids are objectively compatible with human life without proper respiratory support?were driving.

It all depends on how much you use regularly. An abuser could have massive amounts and be fine just like the drunk who was pulled over with 10x the legal limit, enough alcohol to kill most people and they were driving.
 

PeoplesFront

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None of that matters. Zero. Floyd had an issue with abusing drugs. The main difference between all of the other times he took these drugs and the day he died was that this time he was face first on the ground with a knee on his neck.
Yeah, actually it does matter. George had lethal concentrations of opioids in his system and he complained of not being able to breathe multiple times before he was ever placed on the pavement. How would you explain his struggle to breathe before he was face down on the road?
 

howeda7

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Yeah, actually it does matter. George had lethal concentrations of opioids in his system and he complained of not being able to breathe multiple times before he was ever placed on the pavement. How would you explain his struggle to breathe before he was face down on the road?
Wouldn't that make kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes even more indefensible? Chauvin can hardly claim he feared for his life.
 

stocker08

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Yeah, actually it does matter. George had lethal concentrations of opioids in his system and he complained of not being able to breathe multiple times before he was ever placed on the pavement. How would you explain his struggle to breathe before he was face down on the road?

No....it actually doesn't matter. The only known difference between being alive and dead was being put on the ground and having a knee pressed on his neck....further cutting off his ability to breath.
 


stocker08

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It all depends on how much you use regularly. An abuser could have massive amounts and be fine just like the drunk who was pulled over with 10x the legal limit, enough alcohol to kill most people and they were driving.

Bingo. We'll never know if it WAS in fact the drugs that killed him. What we do know is that he died while face down on the ground with a knee pressed into his neck. All while complaining that he couldn't breath....and while people around were shouting that he had stopped breathing. If Chauvin had made ANY attempt to check Floyd....he likely wouldn't be looking at 3rd degree. But everything about his history with Floyd and his indifference when this was all occurring looks worse than negligent....it looks malicious.
 

atsgopher

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Yeah, actually it does matter. George had lethal concentrations of opioids in his system and he complained of not being able to breathe multiple times before he was ever placed on the pavement. How would you explain his struggle to breathe before he was face down on the road?
If it was an opiod overdose he wouldn’t be complaining of not breathing.

What happens is their brain receptors that initiate breathing are affected by the opiod. The subject then starts taking short shalllow breaths which are inadequate to sustain life.

However, the subject would be unconscious before that occurred.

His complaining, screaming, and protesting is in support that he was not overdosing.
 


Costa Rican Gopher

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It all depends on how much you use regularly. An abuser could have massive amounts and be fine just like the drunk who was pulled over with 10x the legal limit, enough alcohol to kill most people and they were driving.

Not entirely true. There are levels that are lethal for anyone, regardless of how often they use. As I understand it, Floyd was well beyond that point.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Wouldn't that make kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes even more indefensible? Chauvin can hardly claim he feared for his life.

The procedure for someone OD'ing is to place them on the ground in the 'recovery position', which is what Chauvin did with Floyd. The Chief of Police testified Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's shoulder blade. It was also noted the EMT's could not have checked Floyd's pulse if Chauvin's knee was on his carotid artery.
 


Costa Rican Gopher

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If it was an opiod overdose he wouldn’t be complaining of not breathing.

What happens is their brain receptors that initiate breathing are affected by the opiod. The subject then starts taking short shalllow breaths which are inadequate to sustain life.

However, the subject would be unconscious before that occurred.

His complaining, screaming, and protesting is in support that he was not overdosing.

You start mixing meth & fentanyl, and you're rolling the dice on what's going to happen.

Floyd's girlfriend's testimony:

"Describing opioids' usual effect of relieving pain and relaxing her, Ross said that the drug in the pills "seemed like it was a really strong stimulant" that kept her from sleeping and made her jittery.

She later testified that the couple got similar pills again in May, including a purchase a week before Floyd's death. Ross told Nelson that she believed those pills came from Hall, although she didn't see them being bought."

Courtroom Video: Floyd's Girlfriend Testifies On Day 4 Of Derek Chauvin Trial
 


MplsGopher

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George had 11ng/ml fentanyl and 5.6ng/ml norfentanyl in his system by the time the toxicology report was taken
Assume this isn't a lie, and assume you're not lying about the affects of these levels of drugs on a person's body. (likely you're lying your ass off)

The logical end to your argument is: it should not be illegal to murder someone, in any manner desired, if they've recently decided to commit suicide and taken a lethal dose of drugs.


Which of course is silly.
 


Angry

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The most common way people overdose is by going through a period of sobriety and then going back to using at the same levels. His girlfriend said they had a period of sobriety together. I realize he could’ve been lying to her.
 

PhiloVance

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The most common way people overdose is by going through a period of sobriety and then going back to using at the same levels. His girlfriend said they had a period of sobriety together. I realize he could’ve been lying to her.
Nah a drugy lying you gotta be kidding.
 




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