All Things 2021 Gophers Basketball Recruiting Thread

manderson1984

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I mean the reality is the “homework” you are suggesting is listening to his coach speak. There’s no real evaluation until there is tape on his team’s play. Pitino was going to run his dad’s defense and Billy’s offense - neither really ever happened. Pitino said he wanted shooters, praised his teams for how great they shot in practice, but it never manifested.

None of this coach speak matters. None of the “doubters” matter. None of the fan “homework” matters. Nothing matters right now except for the individual conversations he’s having with recruits. Next year, there will be tape to tell the story, but right now, it’s all conjecture.
Richard did run some similar offensive stuff as his dad and Billy. He could never get them to defend at any way close to that level.
The truth is their isn’t much variety or contrast in offensive systems currently. It’s really off ball motion based or ball screen continuity based. With our assistant coach hires, it’d really seem we will go towards the later. We may even use some Princeton offensive principles which I think would be intriguing and I think with the recruits we are targeting that are not Minnesotan it’d make sense. You’re right that he has no film has a head coach, but he’s got film of other programs that he can use as an example. You’re right that Ben does the coach speak at pressers and he should. He has no benefit to spilling the beans offensively right now nor should he fully know what he wants to do until his roster is full.
 

cjbfbp

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None of this coach speak matters. None of the “doubters” matter. None of the fan “homework” matters. Nothing matters right now except for the individual conversations he’s having with recruits. Next year, there will be tape to tell the story, but right now, it’s all conjecture.

Amen.
 

xxxdog

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Richard did run some similar offensive stuff as his dad and Billy. He could never get them to defend at any way close to that level.
The truth is their isn’t much variety or contrast in offensive systems currently. It’s really off ball motion based or ball screen continuity based. With our assistant coach hires, it’d really seem we will go towards the later. We may even use some Princeton offensive principles which I think would be intriguing and I think with the recruits we are targeting that are not Minnesotan it’d make sense. You’re right that he has no film has a head coach, but he’s got film of other programs that he can use as an example. You’re right that Ben does the coach speak at pressers and he should. He has no benefit to spilling the beans offensively right now nor should he fully know what he wants to do until his roster is full.
 

alchemy2u

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I mean the reality is the “homework” you are suggesting is listening to his coach speak. There’s no real evaluation until there is tape on his team’s play. Pitino was going to run his dad’s defense and Billy’s offense - neither really ever happened. Pitino said he wanted shooters, praised his teams for how great they shot in practice, but it never manifested.

None of this coach speak matters. None of the “doubters” matter. None of the fan “homework” matters. Nothing matters right now except for the individual conversations he’s having with recruits. Next year, there will be tape to tell the story, but right now, it’s all conjecture.
Of course it will show itself on the court, but all of these guys are complaining that the coach has no style or idea what to do. I am just simply asking what specifically does he need to say or do to appease these critics? “I will play a full court press 3 minutes into the second half of away games on a Thursday”?

Give us specific examples.
 

xxxdog

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The Princeton type offense which emphasizes on fluid motion, open spacing, picks ,back door cuts and skilled 3-point shooting. Coach Pete Carill thrived with this offense in the Ivy league against teams using zone defense and protecting the frontcourt...The counter to this style is matching up man to man with quick athletic & physical players that you would find on most teams in the Big Ten, allowing one shot, "period", forced from long range then cleaning the boards with your bigs....If you have rostered great 3-point shooters, you will upset on occasion a more sizeable and talented team, although do not expect producing any easy titles similar to the Ivy League if you assume a Princeton offensive attack will be effective in the Big Ten, you are now facing a whole new rabid animal.....
 


bc2211

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Of course it will show itself on the court, but all of these guys are complaining that the coach has no style or idea what to do. I am just simply asking what specifically does he need to say or do to appease these critics? “I will play a full court press 3 minutes into the second half of away games on a Thursday”?

Give us specific examples.
There’s nothing he can say, really. Coyle created this situation by hiring someone who hasn’t led a program before. Of course people will have doubts and voice concerns. You don’t have sports without critics, which are also known as fans.

By the way I think we are seeing things the same way, I just might be skipping over more of the fake outrage that is being posted. simultaneously I haven’t listened to much of BJs interviews are pitches, because I don’t think there is any substance to be heard right now. I’ll tune in to his comms after some games have been played.
 
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bc2211

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Of course it will show itself on the court, but all of these guys are complaining that the coach has no style or idea what to do. I am just simply asking what specifically does he need to say or do to appease these critics? “I will play a full court press 3 minutes into the second half of away games on a Thursday”?

Give us specific examples.
An alternate answer to your question: win
 

jovs

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I felt like it fits my playing style. It’s transition basketball, move the ball, open space where you can create for yourself and for your teammates. That’s how I play best.”


I have a feeling not knowing what style Ben wanted to implement this coming year might have hurt us.

How is he going to know until he gets them on the court and starts working with the players also, it's not like he's inheriting a team with 8 guys returning that got significant playing time last year.
 

Chico Gopher

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I think what's being asked for here is, "Please show us your offensive and defensive playbook now, so we fans can look at it and definitively say "That's Awesome' or "That will never work".

It also gives us the opportunity to complain when the product on the court next season doesn't match up exactly with what your playbook showed us it would be like.

Also gives us the option to wonder why the heck you would show the whole world what you plan to do and give the opposition months to come up with game plans to counter-act your style of play. "That's the kind of thing inexperienced coaches would do!".
 
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alchemy2u

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I think what's being asked for here is, "Please show us your offensive and defensive playbook now, so we fans can look at it and definitively say "That's Awesome' or "That will never work".

It also gives us the opportunity to complain when the product on the court next season doesn't match up exactly with what your playbook showed us it would be like.

Also gives us the option to wonder why the heck you would show the whole world what you plan to do and give the opposition months to come up with game plans to counter-act your style of play. "That's the kind of thing inexperienced coaches would do!".
Yes, it is ludicrous. The only thing that a new young coach can really talk about is his ideas of how to play the game and bring in guys that will fit that model.
 

manderson1984

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The Princeton type offense which emphasizes on fluid motion, open spacing, picks ,back door cuts and skilled 3-point shooting. Coach Pete Carill thrived with this offense in the Ivy league against teams using zone defense and protecting the frontcourt...The counter to this style is matching up man to man with quick athletic & physical players that you would find on most teams in the Big Ten, allowing one shot, "period", forced from long range then cleaning the boards with your bigs....If you have rostered great 3-point shooters, you will upset on occasion a more sizeable and talented team, although do not expect producing any easy titles similar to the Ivy League if you assume a Princeton offensive attack will be effective in the Big Ten, you are now facing a whole new rabid animal.....
Yes, but there are newer modifications than when Carrill ran it. Richmond ran a ton of 5 out stuff with it. That can be effective against many slow B1G bigs (See Loyola vs Ill). I’m not saying we are going full on Princeton offense, but I do think we will incorporate a lot of the actions from it. That fact we continue to recruit 5s who are really good passers tells us that imo.
 

Ozzy&Ray

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If they are receiving that information then why can’t BJ tell anyone publicly? BJ keeps saying the style will be determined by the players he gets. So now we are in the chicken or the egg, can’t get great players if you can’t articulate your style, but won’t declare a style until you get players. People who keep saying he is telling recruits the style, if this is true why can’t he tell anyone else, why does he have to keep it secret?
He has. You obviously don’t get it. Why does he have to go into detail for you? Knowing people involved with some of the recruits and the program, they are clearly defining the style of play they intend. Even video examples of it. Kind of crazy huh.

Coaches adapt what they do all the time based on their players. Coach K has always preferred man defense, but in recent years has occasionally played zone because the players he had really did not play effective man defense. Bo Ryan adjusted his offense quite a bit when he had Dekker, Kaminsky, and Koenig. The best coaches have a clear philosophy that guides how they play, and modify it to the talents they have.
 
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Ozzy&Ray

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The Princeton type offense which emphasizes on fluid motion, open spacing, picks ,back door cuts and skilled 3-point shooting. Coach Pete Carill thrived with this offense in the Ivy league against teams using zone defense and protecting the frontcourt...The counter to this style is matching up man to man with quick athletic & physical players that you would find on most teams in the Big Ten, allowing one shot, "period", forced from long range then cleaning the boards with your bigs....If you have rostered great 3-point shooters, you will upset on occasion a more sizeable and talented team, although do not expect producing any easy titles similar to the Ivy League if you assume a Princeton offensive attack will be effective in the Big Ten, you are now facing a whole new rabid animal.....
You really don’t know what you are speaking about. NBA teams now run variations of the Princeton offense. It’s just good, offensive basketball that provides all kinds of options.
 



builtbadgers

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The best coaches run actions off and variations of the Princeton offense. They rarely say much. BJ has said everything there is. Going to recruit character first. Going to recruit guys that fit roles that fit a team. Going to take quality shots, take care of the ball and play Defense ! The conversations with recruits are about a vision, about a opportunity, about building a relationship. The basketball stuff is a easy conversation. Of course it helps when you you can show film of players you have had come off pin downs and curls and wide stays to free a Klay, a Joe Harris, a Guy but Ben can use that to show examples of because coaches that have that film started without any of their own. So it starts with the relationship.
 

sal

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The Princeton type offense which emphasizes on fluid motion, open spacing, picks ,back door cuts and skilled 3-point shooting. Coach Pete Carill thrived with this offense in the Ivy league against teams using zone defense and protecting the frontcourt...The counter to this style is matching up man to man with quick athletic & physical players that you would find on most teams in the Big Ten, allowing one shot, "period", forced from long range then cleaning the boards with your bigs....If you have rostered great 3-point shooters, you will upset on occasion a more sizeable and talented team, although do not expect producing any easy titles similar to the Ivy League if you assume a Princeton offensive attack will be effective in the Big Ten, you are now facing a whole new rabid animal.....
I certainly don't agree with your take. The Princeton offense is very effective against man to man and the more aggressive, often it's more effective. Teams literally switch to zone to avoid getting cut apart by back door cuts. Quote from the "Breakthrough Basketball " website describing the Princeton offense..." When an offense has stood the test of time, there is a reason...IT WORKS! The Princeton Offense has been used for years to get easy backdoor lay ups and open shots! And it works especially well against aggressive man-man defenses."
Remember Princeton vs Georgetown '89. 16 seed Princeton looses by one 50-49 to a Very talented, extremely aggressive (and #1 seed) Hoya team, with Alonzo Mourning. A classic.
Many teams run stuff that have principals, it's not unusual.

Info on Princeton Offense
 

Bob_Loblaw

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None of this coach speak matters. None of the “doubters” matter. None of the fan “homework” matters. Nothing matters right now except for the individual conversations he’s having with recruits. Next year, there will be tape to tell the story, but right now, it’s all conjecture.
This is the real answer but as Gopher basketball fans in May, we're going to be talking about every little thing. That kind of fandom is part of the reason why college sports are so popular.

As to you point, I do totally agree. I think it's also important to note that what really matters is the RESULTS of those conversations with recruits. If we have a bunch of the top recruits in MN really like Ben but not commit to the U, who cares? I do get a little worried when a bunch of people who didn't choose the U are quoted as really liking Ben. If Tyus Jones isn't going to pick the U, who cares? I have no interest in being "friendzoned" by a bunch of the top recruits/AAU folks in MN.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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The best coaches run actions off and variations of the Princeton offense. They rarely say much. BJ has said everything there is. Going to recruit character first. Going to recruit guys that fit roles that fit a team. Going to take quality shots, take care of the ball and play Defense ! The conversations with recruits are about a vision, about a opportunity, about building a relationship. The basketball stuff is a easy conversation. Of course it helps when you you can show film of players you have had come off pin downs and curls and wide stays to free a Klay, a Joe Harris, a Guy but Ben can use that to show examples of because coaches that have that film started without any of their own. So it starts with the relationship.
Honestly, he said one thing in interview that showed me he gets it more than Pitino. He talked about having precise ball movement without dribbling. The only way to do that is to (like you said) have some variation of the Princeton offense/2 guard front. He isn't going to go into more than that because frankly pinning it down more than that is kind of outdated. Modern offenses are essentially fluid and amorphous versions of the Princeton offense.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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I certainly don't agree with your take. The Princeton offense is very effective against man to man and the more aggressive, often it's more effective. Teams literally switch to zone to avoid getting cut apart by back door cuts. Quote from the "Breakthrough Basketball " website describing the Princeton offense..." When an offense has stood the test of time, there is a reason...IT WORKS! The Princeton Offense has been used for years to get easy backdoor lay ups and open shots! And it works especially well against aggressive man-man defenses."
Remember Princeton vs Georgetown '89. 16 seed Princeton looses by one 50-49 to a Very talented, extremely aggressive (and #1 seed) Hoya team, with Alonzo Mourning. A classic.
Many teams run stuff that have principals, it's not unusual.

Info on Princeton Offense

Even the elbow-extended offenses in the NBA are essentially variations of the Princeton offense. It's just you can only be effective in that kind of offense if you happen to have an incredibly talented NBA C who can shoot and pass (ie Weber, Jokic, Towns)
 

manderson1984

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Even the elbow-extended offenses in the NBA are essentially variations of the Princeton offense. It's just you can only be effective in that kind of offense if you happen to have an incredibly talented NBA C who can shoot and pass (ie Weber, Jokic, Towns)
Look at the bigs Ben’s tried to recruit. They are all known as strong pass. That alone will tell the story of our offense next year
 


Pete smith

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Maybe we will run the Korn offense from Big Shots. Just replace the high school girls with our recruits. Probably same skill set.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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So much for a recruiting thread . I could read about Princeton offense all night😴
You're right, the style of offense really has nothing to do with recruiting. We should make sure that this thread only touches on things directly and solely regarding recruiting so that folks won't be forced to read through every single boring post.

So onto recruiting news . . . (crickets)
 

sal

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You're right, the style of offense really has nothing to do with recruiting. We should make sure that this thread only touches on things directly and solely regarding recruiting so that folks won't be forced to read through every single boring post.
So onto recruiting news . . . (crickets)
Agree
 

xxxdog

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You're right, the style of offense really has nothing to do with recruiting. We should make sure that this thread only touches on things directly and solely regarding recruiting so that folks won't be forced to read through every single boring post.

So onto recruiting news . . . (crickets)
It appears looking at our current roster the style of offense will dictate the type of player Ben Johnson has recruited so far and possibly similar players still to be added . The transfer portal was loaded with about 130-140 power forwards & centers, with less than half as serviceable starters on a previous team... The Gophers recruiting of PF & C according to contacted players listings appeared to be extremely light.....The style of offense by Ben Johnson's Gophers might have everything to do with any added new recruits.....
 



xxxdog

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One of the better big men left. Hope we get him.
Sunday May 9th in 247-sports he talked about having interest in Cincinnati, Arkansas and Kansas, without mention of Minnesota....I doubt we are a front runner in his recruitment......
 







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