All Things 2021 Gophers Basketball Recruiting Thread

short ornery norwegian

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Yeah, I think some are making the mistake of thinking this is how it is going to be from now on. That is not to say the transfer portal is going away or isn't going to be a big factor in the future but this particular year is way crazier than it typically will be.

This level of player movement just isn't sustainable on a year to year basis. Not sure what the current count is but I know at one point there were like 1500 players active in the portal.

Exactly. This is like the Oklahoma Land Rush of college basketball. It's Black Friday at Best Buy with $200 TV's on sale.

It's like the perfect storm of events all colliding - the covid year giving players another year of eligibility, and the NCAA approving a one-time only "free" transfer for players without having to sit out a year.

I believe this will set a record for # of players in the portal - and a record that will never be challenged. the next year will be the settling-down period, and then college hoops will find the new normal. Yes, there will be more transfer activity compared to the old "waiver" days, but you will not see wholesale transfers every year - except for coaching changes.
 

PhiloVance

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That is interesting. So Gach and Ihnen are the only ones left.

Still looking for four more guys to fill the roster. Seems like it’s been very quiet (too quiet?) with names of players that might be looking at MN. I think Ben has said the guys get on campus together in June so will we have a full roster by then? What a year to come in to a new job and manage this.
When they scrimmage it will be 3 on 3 if BJ can't convince some players to enroll.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan

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Don't look now, but our favorite former HC. RP, is building up quite the transfer list commits at the moment.



Has the #168 player committed still for 21.
Has Center transfer from Kansas coming in, was a .91 rated recruit out of high school
Obviously Mashburn
A PG transfer from Arizona, was .93 rated recruit out of high school
A PG from TCU just committed, was a .88 out of high school.

Should be an upgrade over what NM currently has on it's roster.

Back to 21 MN recruiting....
 

eker0016

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Don't look now, but our favorite former HC. RP, is building up quite the transfer list commits at the moment.



Has the #168 player committed still for 21.
Has Center transfer from Kansas coming in, was a .91 rated recruit out of high school
Obviously Mashburn
A PG transfer from Arizona, was .93 rated recruit out of high school
A PG from TCU just committed, was a .88 out of high school.

Should be an upgrade over what NM currently has on it's roster.

Back to 21 MN recruiting....
He was always a good short window recruiter. He must have a nice high pressure sales pitch. He struggled with instate recruiting with guys he had to build relationships with for years. Good luck to him!
 

Blackhammer

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The transfer rules this year are ridiculous. Got to feel for mid majors , develop and believe in a player and most leave. It isn’t just the schools using the players which is the common narrative. Interesting Johnson waited so long to enter portal. Make a nice role player for someone.
 

go_gophers

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Reminds me of the Iron Five at Minnesota. Wasn't that Clem's first year?
Nope. Jimmy Williams coached that squad. I watched them beat OSU with Brad Sellers and Dennis Hopson. We stayed after the game and I got my program signed by Jimmy Williams and the Iron Five (Marc Wilson, Ray Gaffney, Kelvin Smith, Tim Hanson and John Shasky). Also randomly got Joe Senser who was at the game. Still my biggest sports thrill!
 

PMWinSTP

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He was always a good short window recruiter. He must have a nice high pressure sales pitch. He struggled with instate recruiting with guys he had to build relationships with for years. Good luck to him!
It's the developing and coaching part that he struggles with...
 

GopherPlaya

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The transfer rules this year are ridiculous. Got to feel for mid majors , develop and believe in a player and most leave. It isn’t just the schools using the players which is the common narrative. Interesting Johnson waited so long to enter portal. Make a nice role player for someone.
Mid Major coaches leave for High Major jobs so it really isn't much different
 

GopherPlaya

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How many mid major coaches left this year in comparison to players? The pandemic rules this season certainly that isn’t the case..
Well, there are way fewer coaches and job openings than there are roster spots so that is not an apples-to-apples comparison. More kids transfer down than up. So it is not like high majors are just poaching mid-majors. If anything Juco and class of 21 high school kids have been affected more than mid-major rosters.
 

Ozzy&Ray

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Shakopee grad who played for BC for four years. Grad transfer. Junkyard dog. Great guy to have in a rebuild. Would definitely fit the mold of gritty.

I think Johnson has more skills on offense though.
No, he does not have more skills offensively at all. Not even close in being able to handle the ball, pass the ball, and hit an open jumper. BC ran much of offense through Mitchell. Very smart player, good decisions. Something we have rarely seen during the Pitino era from any position, but for sure a 4/5. Other than Iowa, Johnson did not shoot well at all.
 

Ozzy&Ray

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Sometimes it felt like the majority of the board complained about the entire team- Liam and Marcus included!
They were each worth complaining about a lot. Glad the selfishness of Carr is gone - no flow on offense, didn’t make teammates better, awful on defense. Liam was weak with the ball with way too many turnovers, although Liam has a chance to improve and get stronger, but obviously wants to be with his uncle.
 

GopherPlaya

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No, he does not have more skills offensively at all. Not even close in being able to handle the ball, pass the ball, and hit an open jumper. BC ran much of offense through Mitchell. Very smart player, good decisions. Something we have rarely seen during the Pitino era from any position, but for sure a 4/5. Other than Iowa, Johnson did not shoot well at all.
I agree. Also, Johnson is even more expendable with Battle on the roster as well
 

cjbfbp

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Don't look now, but our favorite former HC. RP, is building up quite the transfer list commits at the moment.



Has the #168 player committed still for 21.
Has Center transfer from Kansas coming in, was a .91 rated recruit out of high school
Obviously Mashburn
A PG transfer from Arizona, was .93 rated recruit out of high school
A PG from TCU just committed, was a .88 out of high school.

Should be an upgrade over what NM currently has on it's roster.

Back to 21 MN recruiting....

If you look at some of those transfer recruits, they haven't done much at their schools. Two or three years after high school, I don't care much about how highly a kid was rated coming out of high school. I care what he's done with his opportunities since.

I'll give Muscadin a bit of a pass because he was a freshman but some freshmen centers play well. In 33 minutes of playing time this season he scored 2 points. He did have 10 rebounds.

In 53 games at Arizona State, Jaelen House had a career Player Efficiency Rating of 11.0 and a Win Share per 40 of .068. Not horrible but pretty marginal.

In 26 games at TCU, Taryn Todd had a Player Efficiency Rating of 8.4 and a Win Share per 40 of .03. Michael Hurt's career figures were a Player Efficiency Rating of 7.4 and a Win Share per 40 of .05.

Looks like Pitino is continuing his knack for recruiting fairly highly rated high schoolers who don't live up to those ratings on the court (Coffey and Oturu excepted of course).
 

MNVCGUY

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If you look at some of those transfer recruits, they haven't done much at their schools. Two or three years after high school, I don't care much about how highly a kid was rated coming out of high school. I care what he's done with his opportunities since.

I'll give Muscadin a bit of a pass because he was a freshman but some freshmen centers play well. In 33 minutes of playing time this season he scored 2 points. He did have 10 rebounds.

In 53 games at Arizona State, Jaelen House had a career Player Efficiency Rating of 11.0 and a Win Share per 40 of .068. Not horrible but pretty marginal.

In 26 games at TCU, Taryn Todd had a Player Efficiency Rating of 8.4 and a Win Share per 40 of .03. Michael Hurt's career figures were a Player Efficiency Rating of 7.4 and a Win Share per 40 of .05.

Looks like Pitino is continuing his knack for recruiting fairly highly rated high schoolers who don't live up to those ratings on the court (Coffey and Oturu excepted of course).
I haven't dove into the transfers other schools are bringing in but I do feel like some of our fans would rather have a Power 6 player who rode the bench over a mid major or lower player that was a star for their team. Just simply based on the fact that the power 6 kid is going to have a higher ranking out of high school in most cases.

We have no way of knowing how the guys we have brought in are going to perform but the majority of them averaged in double figures and played a ton of minutes for their previous team. I would put more stock in that then I would in a highly rated kid out of high school who didn't play much at all.
 

tmvander

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I haven't dove into the transfers other schools are bringing in but I do feel like some of our fans would rather have a Power 6 player who rode the bench over a mid major or lower player that was a star for their team. Just simply based on the fact that the power 6 kid is going to have a higher ranking out of high school in most cases.

We have no way of knowing how the guys we have brought in are going to perform but the majority of them averaged in double figures and played a ton of minutes for their previous team. I would put more stock in that then I would in a highly rated kid out of high school who didn't play much at all.

What would be interesting is to see how our transfers did against other top competition (either in non conference games or whatever). Are they averaging 15 points per game against lower competition but shooting 2-10 with 5 points when they play Ohio St and lose by 40? I think seeing any positive stat lines (even just individually) would be cool if any of them played in any games like that over the years.
 

cjbfbp

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I haven't dove into the transfers other schools are bringing in but I do feel like some of our fans would rather have a Power 6 player who rode the bench over a mid major or lower player that was a star for their team. Just simply based on the fact that the power 6 kid is going to have a higher ranking out of high school in most cases.

That's because they are informationally unsophisticated. They think there is some tribunal of expert wise men who have studied all these players across the country over an extended period of time and assigned these ratings based on science and their long histories of expert judgement. In reality, they're more like college sophomores copying each others' homework.

I'm not saying these ratings are rarely an accurate reflection of ability but the miss rate is higher than some realize. The ratings likely comport much better with subsequent performance once you get into the rarified air of the top 30 or so.
 

bga1

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What would be interesting is to see how our transfers did against other top competition (either in non conference games or whatever). Are they averaging 15 points per game against lower competition but shooting 2-10 with 5 points when they play Ohio St and lose by 40? I think seeing any positive stat lines (even just individually) would be cool if any of them played in any games like that over the years.
To that point- William and Mary's toughest game (by far) was against UVA in which they lost by a ton and Loewe scored 5 points on 2-10 shooting...coincidentally.
 

MNVCGUY

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That's because they are informationally unsophisticated. They think there is some tribunal of expert wise men who have studied all these players across the country over an extended period of time and assigned these ratings based on science and their long histories of expert judgement. In reality, they're more like college sophomores copying each others' homework.

I'm not saying these ratings are rarely an accurate reflection of ability but the miss rate is higher than some realize. The ratings likely comport much better with subsequent performance once you get into the rarified air of the top 30 or so.
It is kind of shocking how many can't look past that high school ranking when forming their opinion on a player. Or those that will get hung up on a few percentage points, like somehow there is this massive difference between a .910 - 4* and a .880 - 3*

The recruiting sites have a formula, and they get it right a lot. But it is impossible to accurately compare the abilities of players across the country going up against different levels of competition and playing in different systems. Now it is probably a bit easier in basketball because the top guys go head to head a lot in AAU but even there, once you get beyond the best of the best they are just guessing in a lot of cases based on what has happened with similar athletes in the past.
 

MNVCGUY

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To that point- William and Mary's toughest game (by far) was against UVA in which they lost by a ton and Loewe scored 5 points on 2-10 shooting...coincidentally.
Didn't see that game but I would bet anything that Virginia (a very good defensive team) made stopping Loewe a priority and forcing the other guys to find a way to beat them. At least that is what I would do as a power 6 team going up against a lower level team. Identify their leading scorer and make it really hard for him to do anything.

Too small of a sample size to draw any real conclusions. That said, I have little doubt that Loewe will not put up the same numbers for the Gophers that he did for William and Mary. Seems very likely that one of the other transfers (Fox or Battle) will be relied on to be the leading scorer, at least as the roster looks today.
 

DeathClutch

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What would be interesting is to see how our transfers did against other top competition (either in non conference games or whatever). Are they averaging 15 points per game against lower competition but shooting 2-10 with 5 points when they play Ohio St and lose by 40? I think seeing any positive stat lines (even just individually) would be cool if any of them played in any games like that over the years.
As a reference, Brandon Johnson put up 6 & 4 @ Oklahoma State and 4 & 5 @ Michigan State his last year at Western Michigan. Not sure you can draw too much of a conclusion.
 

tmvander

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As a reference, Brandon Johnson put up 6 & 4 @ Oklahoma State and 4 & 5 @ Michigan State his last year at Western Michigan. Not sure you can draw too much of a conclusion.
Actually you probably could so thanks for the info. My conclusion is he's not going to come to MN and average the 15 and 8 he did. He then averaged 9 and 6 with us. Gives you a little better idea (maybe) of how some of these guys will play when they're playing Big Ten teams every night.

However, I'm far too lazy to dig up game stats of all our transfers this year.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan

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Didn't see that game but I would bet anything that Virginia (a very good defensive team) made stopping Loewe a priority and forcing the other guys to find a way to beat them. At least that is what I would do as a power 6 team going up against a lower level team. Identify their leading scorer and make it really hard for him to do anything.

Too small of a sample size to draw any real conclusions. That said, I have little doubt that Loewe will not put up the same numbers for the Gophers that he did for William and Mary. Seems very likely that one of the other transfers (Fox or Battle) will be relied on to be the leading scorer, at least as the roster looks today.
I watched the highlights, that wasn't the strategy. Lowe guarded their Forward and Virginias guard guarded Lowe (who is a guard) and Lowe was too slow and couldn't get a single good look all game (ppl got mad when i said that, but the truth hurts sometimes).

so Lowe will most likely struggle against the top half of the B1G guards if he starts.
 
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jpgopher

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Um, no. Musselman’s first. Post-Ohio State riot. I was at the game but didn’t partake, although an inner wildman wanted to. An amazing year it was.
Um, no. Jimmy Williams was the coach post-Dutcher resigning after the forfeit of the NW game following the Madison rape incident.
 
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