All Things 2021 Gophers Basketball Recruiting Thread

tmvander

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Pitino has missed out on the majority of the top ranked national instate recruits. Pointing that out isn’t misunderstanding that many are going to leave. It’s not a fireable offense but it’s a fair criticism of Pitino.
I don't think it would matter who the coach is. Jones' and Hurt were going to Duke. Vaughn was heading elsewhere. Trent was going blue blood. Maybe we land Reid Travis. Also, maybe we don't get Coffey, Oturu, or Gabe who have all been solid players.

Pitino has missed on a lot of the in state guys but I bet anyone would have. Of all of the aspects of leading a D1 program Pitino's recruiting is closer to the bottom of concerns than top for me.
 

manderson1984

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Pitino has missed out on the majority of the top ranked national instate recruits. Pointing that out isn’t misunderstanding that many are going to leave. It’s not a fireable offense but it’s a fair criticism of Pitino.
Especially with who he brought in instead in the earlier years. Fair criticism indeed. I will say I do think I see type of player/vision now with who we are getting and I am a fan. I am seeing guys coming in who are considered to be for the most part good defenders and long.
 

USAF

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I don't think it would matter who the coach is. Jones' and Hurt were going to Duke. Vaughn was heading elsewhere. Trent was going blue blood. Maybe we land Reid Travis. Also, maybe we don't get Coffey, Oturu, or Gabe who have all been solid players.

Pitino has missed on a lot of the in state guys but I bet anyone would have. Of all of the aspects of leading a D1 program Pitino's recruiting is closer to the bottom of concerns than top for me.
This program goes nowhere until the excuses and rationalizations run out.

It wouldn't matter who the coach is??

How TF did Duke become somewhere Jones and Hurt would go to from MN?
 

manderson1984

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Sean Pedulla to VA Tech.
RJ really liked this kid when he saw him. Would've been an interesting fit, but would've probably not worked with 2022 lead guards we are on. It'll be interesting to see how Pitino fills out the lead guards next year. Could see him fill it with a Grad Transfer if Marcus Carr leaves, but would probably need to be one who plays behind Mashburn. Tons of really good lead guards in 2022 that they have a great shot at so I'm ok with him not coming here.
 

tmvander

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This program goes nowhere until the excuses and rationalizations run out.

It wouldn't matter who the coach is??

How TF did Duke become somewhere Jones and Hurt would go to from MN?
I mean they aren't really excuses...there are better programs than MN basketball around the country that kids want to play for. We aren't going to sign every top 10 player that comes from our own backyard. In fact, look at all of the states across the country and see how many top 10 or top 20 players are playing for a school in that state. This isn't a problem that only Richard Pitino deals with.
 

MplsGopher

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I mean they aren't really excuses...there are better programs than MN basketball around the country that kids want to play for. We aren't going to sign every top 10 player that comes from our own backyard. In fact, look at all of the states across the country and see how many top 10 or top 20 players are playing for a school in that state. This isn't a problem that only Richard Pitino deals with.
Duke fans don't care if a blue chip kid from NC wants to leave the state, because for every one of those there's some other blue chipper in Virginia, Florida, Georgia, Ohio, etc. that wants to leave his own state and come to Duke. And that isn't much of a stretch for those kids, in terms of climate, culture, or distance (for the parents/family to drive).

It's always going to be a relatively bigger problem for Minnesota. If we're winning titles, fine. But if not, who wants to come to frozen, snowy, white, far away Minny?? Kids from the Dakotas, Iowa, Wisconsin, fine ... but there just don't seem to be that many high level players in those states, willing to come here, to replace the ones in our backyard that want out.
 

tmvander

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Duke fans don't care if a blue chip kid from NC wants to leave the state, because for every one of those there's some other blue chipper in Virginia, Florida, Georgia, Ohio, etc. that wants to leave his own state and come to Duke. And that isn't much of a stretch for those kids, in terms of climate, culture, or distance (for the parents/family to drive).

It's always going to be a relatively bigger problem for Minnesota. If we're winning titles, fine. But if not, who wants to come to frozen, snowy, white, far away Minny?? Kids from the Dakotas, Iowa, Wisconsin, fine ... but there just don't seem to be that many high level players in those states, willing to come here, to replace the ones in our backyard that want out.
Exactly...and to USAF's point (not trying to bicker with them) it is frustrating when these 5* guys leave. I get it. I feel the pain too. But really that is just because its our best chance at landing a 5* guy. Like you said we aren't bringing in a top 10 national player from New York City. It just isn't happening. But the expectations of all of these guys needing to stay home and play here is silly. Even if we were the best team in the Big Ten for the last 20 years not every MN guy is going to stay here and play here.
 

USAF

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I mean they aren't really excuses...there are better programs than MN basketball around the country that kids want to play for. We aren't going to sign every top 10 player that comes from our own backyard. In fact, look at all of the states across the country and see how many top 10 or top 20 players are playing for a school in that state. This isn't a problem that only Richard Pitino deals with.
You, and those like you, are a big part of the problem.

"I'd like to be like those other guys,, but gosh, how can we compete? We're just Minnesota, we can't be good and we'll never be good."

You are the EXACT culture PJ Fleck is trying to change. The past he's trying to turn into THE PAST.

Duke wasn't born a blue blood. Nor Gonzaga.

Minnesota isn't doomed to B1G also-ran. We don't have to accept that Richard Pitino is the best we can dp. And we don't have to live with HS kids not wanting to play for the school they should have grown up DREAMING of playing for.
 

leib0039

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In regards to Pedulla, i have stated this before (and I guess could be way off) but I don't see a ton of reason to take these fringe 150-200 kids anymore. When it was only grad transfers or had to sit out sure I get it. Now with the free transfer for everyone I think MN needs to be a school in the old Hoiberg Iowa St mold. We arent getting the 4*-5* guys consistently, but lets be the team that scoops up the guys who had 1 bad year at a school and are looking to get out. It seems some on this board just think that is terrible, but I just want talented kids, if we get them for 2-3 years instead of a guy we beat out Penn and DePaul for 4 years well thats a win in my book. Give me an Alex O'Connell for 2 years or Carr for 3 years over a Pedulla type. And yes there will be misses there as there always is, but it feels like a more clear path to a consistently good team as opposed to hoping the Konate type guys turn out. What we have been doing clearly hasnt been working all that great, try something different! (and yes I know, Mason/Murphy were fringe 150 guys that worked, I get it)
 

tmvander

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You, and those like you, are a big part of the problem.

"I'd like to be like those other guys,, but gosh, how can we compete? We're just Minnesota, we can't be good and we'll never be good."

You are the EXACT culture PJ Fleck is trying to change. The past he's trying to turn into THE PAST.

Duke wasn't born a blue blood. Nor Gonzaga.

Minnesota isn't doomed to B1G also-ran. We don't have to accept that Richard Pitino is the best we can dp. And we don't have to live with HS kids not wanting to play for the school they should have grown up DREAMING of playing for.
Hopefully PJ and company can change all of us causing problems!
 

manderson1984

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You, and those like you, are a big part of the problem.

"I'd like to be like those other guys,, but gosh, how can we compete? We're just Minnesota, we can't be good and we'll never be good."

You are the EXACT culture PJ Fleck is trying to change. The past he's trying to turn into THE PAST.

Duke wasn't born a blue blood. Nor Gonzaga.

Minnesota isn't doomed to B1G also-ran. We don't have to accept that Richard Pitino is the best we can dp. And we don't have to live with HS kids not wanting to play for the school they should have grown up DREAMING of playing for.
Lol no poster on here is a big part of the problem. No one here is saying it’s ok to lose like we have. Our formula of winning will not start by keeping all our top 20 kids our state produces. It’s not reasonable. Even PJ loses the top MN kids too. There are plenty to hold Pitino accountable for. Losing top 10 kids in the country to Duke or even Gonzaga is not. There is a big difference in being realistic and growth focused like PJ is and being unrealistic. We could be a Gonaga someday, but it will start more organically and will take time And of course the right leadership plus some luck.
 

manderson1984

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In regards to Pedulla, i have stated this before (and I guess could be way off) but I don't see a ton of reason to take these fringe 150-200 kids anymore. When it was only grad transfers or had to sit out sure I get it. Now with the free transfer for everyone I think MN needs to be a school in the old Hoiberg Iowa St mold. We arent getting the 4*-5* guys consistently, but lets be the team that scoops up the guys who had 1 bad year at a school and are looking to get out. It seems some on this board just think that is terrible, but I just want talented kids, if we get them for 2-3 years instead of a guy we beat out Penn and DePaul for 4 years well thats a win in my book. Give me an Alex O'Connell for 2 years or Carr for 3 years over a Pedulla type. And yes there will be misses there as there always is, but it feels like a more clear path to a consistently good team as opposed to hoping the Konate type guys turn out. What we have been doing clearly hasnt been working all that great, try something different! (and yes I know, Mason/Murphy were fringe 150 guys that worked, I get it)
Couple things with Pedulla. It sounds like he was underrated due to this summer being a show. Secondly, being a transfer U in the mold if Hoibergs ISU is not reasonable or maybe even possible anymore. Teams are utilizing transfers a lot more and our academic standards may hurt us in the transfer world. I also just don’t think it’s stable or sustainable. If you look at programs like us that grow, it’s done with plenty of top 100-200 guys. They come here, get old here, and develop and fit our system and culture. I see us getting guys like that now. Then you just need to hit one or two top 100 every three years and you can have Some really good teams which then of course will lead to better recruiting.
 

benlaur

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I don't think it would matter who the coach is. Jones' and Hurt were going to Duke. Vaughn was heading elsewhere. Trent was going blue blood. Maybe we land Reid Travis. Also, maybe we don't get Coffey, Oturu, or Gabe who have all been solid players.

Pitino has missed on a lot of the in state guys but I bet anyone would have. Of all of the aspects of leading a D1 program Pitino's recruiting is closer to the bottom of concerns than top for me.
Yes, you might as well quit right now and stop trying.
 

tmvander

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Yes, you might as well quit right now and stop trying.
Point isn't to quit trying its just to set realistic expectations. Me and the guys who are part of the problem will watch and cheer for our gopher teams who have been in the top half of Big Ten recruiting 6 of the last 8 years. We'll cheer for our 3 and 4* players. You guys go whine and demand a new coach ever 3 years because our starting lineup isn't all 5* players born and raised from MN.
 

SoMpls

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Lol no poster on here is a big part of the problem. No one here is saying it’s ok to lose like we have. Our formula of winning will not start by keeping all our top 20 kids our state produces. It’s not reasonable. Even PJ loses the top MN kids too. There are plenty to hold Pitino accountable for. Losing top 10 kids in the country to Duke or even Gonzaga is not. There is a big difference in being realistic and growth focused like PJ is and being unrealistic. We could be a Gonaga someday, but it will start more organically and will take time And of course the right leadership plus some luck.
I think people can accept losing top 10 kids. Think of kids we showed little interest that are seniors now. Wright, Sims, Davison, John. Those are players that Pitino offers only after they receive HM offers from other schools but never really follow up. Who’s the last MN kid that wasn’t a top 30 player that Pitino made a priority but still signed somewhere else? Just like Schetter in 2021 & Watson in 2022. Offers after getting HM offers but will never be a priority. That’s my big issue with Pitino. It would be different if his approach led to winning but it hasn’t.
 

manderson1984

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I think people can accept losing top 10 kids. Think of kids we showed little interest that are seniors now. Wright, Sims, Davison, John. Those are players that Pitino offers only after they receive HM offers from other schools but never really follow up. Who’s the last MN kid that wasn’t a top 30 player that Pitino made a priority but still signed somewhere else? Just like Schetter in 2021 & Watson in 2022. Offers after getting HM offers but will never be a priority. That’s my big issue with Pitino. It would be different if his approach led to winning but it hasn’t.
I will agree with the older examples that he hadn’t been early on some MN kids but that simply isn’t true anymore. He already has 8 offers out to the 2022 class. Being first is highly overrated anyways. It is about building a relationship. He’s been doing that. Walton was a huge priority and Carolina came calling. In 2021, he has Thompson so Schetter wasn’t a fit anymore. I’d argue our roster has plenty of MN kids on it. Lastly my main point is I just don’t think it’s a top issue in why Pitino has failed here. I think it’s an easy one to point out, but I think MN turning the U down is more a by product of us not winning.
 

tmvander

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I think people can accept losing top 10 kids. Think of kids we showed little interest that are seniors now. Wright, Sims, Davison, John. Those are players that Pitino offers only after they receive HM offers from other schools but never really follow up. Who’s the last MN kid that wasn’t a top 30 player that Pitino made a priority but still signed somewhere else? Just like Schetter in 2021 & Watson in 2022. Offers after getting HM offers but will never be a priority. That’s my big issue with Pitino. It would be different if his approach led to winning but it hasn’t.
I'm upset about the Wright thing and most of us should be. Was tough to see that Washington who was like a top 60 recruit in the nation would end up being a dud. I'm pretty sure we were in early on John and Sims though. Davidson I'm ok with not having be a part of this team haha.

To your point though there have been some guys that we totally swung and missed on. Another that comes to mind is Macura.
 

SoMpls

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I will agree with the older examples that he hadn’t been early on some MN kids but that simply isn’t true anymore. He already has 8 offers out to the 2022 class. Being first is highly overrated anyways. It is about building a relationship. He’s been doing that. Walton was a huge priority and Carolina came calling. In 2021, he has Thompson so Schetter wasn’t a fit anymore. I’d argue our roster has plenty of MN kids on it. Lastly my main point is I just don’t think it’s a top issue in why Pitino has failed here. I think it’s an easy one to point out, but I think MN turning the U down is more a by product of us not winning.
I would take Schetter over Thompson any day but to my point Schetter was never a priority. His offer came only after other HM did. My question is out players he’s offered in 2022 from MN who does he prioritize? I would assume Aligbe, Holloman, King? Or is he prioritizing all 8 considering all have HM offers from other schools? My point is though he offers MN kids once the receive HM offers from other schools but doesn’t prioritize them like other schools and that’s why they leave. Wright being the worst example because you probably get John with him. IMO if you really don’t want the kids don’t offer them. Offer the MN you think did your program and build the relationship. Don’t offer because WI or IA did.
 

manderson1984

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I would take Schetter over Thompson any day but to my point Schetter was never a priority. His offer came only after other HM did. My question is out players he’s offered in 2022 from MN who does he prioritize? I would assume Aligbe, Holloman, King? Or is he prioritizing all 8 considering all have HM offers from other schools? My point is though he offers MN kids once the receive HM offers from other schools but doesn’t prioritize them like other schools and that’s why they leave. Wright being the worst example because you probably get John with him. IMO if you really don’t want the kids don’t offer them. Offer the MN you think did your program and build the relationship. Don’t offer because WI or IA did.
Fair enough on your eval of Schetter va Thompson. I’m simply stating why he wasn’t a priority. Sometimes the offer has to happen so the AAU programs don’t whine and cry.

Holloman has been and will be the top priority in the 2022 class. That’s been known for quite awhile. Your preference of offering only who you prioritize is my preferred way of recruiting too. I’m sure Aligbe is a priority, but he may have moved on hence why we moved on to Watson? I’m going off of what I read and hear. I’m not that connected anymore.
 

BarnBurner

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Couple things with Pedulla. It sounds like he was underrated due to this summer being a show. Secondly, being a transfer U in the mold if Hoibergs ISU is not reasonable or maybe even possible anymore. Teams are utilizing transfers a lot more and our academic standards may hurt us in the transfer world. I also just don’t think it’s stable or sustainable. If you look at programs like us that grow, it’s done with plenty of top 100-200 guys. They come here, get old here, and develop and fit our system and culture. I see us getting guys like that now. Then you just need to hit one or two top 100 every three years and you can have Some really good teams which then of course will lead to better recruiting.
#Levelplayingfield
#excusesareforlosers
 

tmvander

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I would take Schetter over Thompson any day but to my point Schetter was never a priority. His offer came only after other HM did. My question is out players he’s offered in 2022 from MN who does he prioritize? I would assume Aligbe, Holloman, King? Or is he prioritizing all 8 considering all have HM offers from other schools? My point is though he offers MN kids once the receive HM offers from other schools but doesn’t prioritize them like other schools and that’s why they leave. Wright being the worst example because you probably get John with him. IMO if you really don’t want the kids don’t offer them. Offer the MN you think did your program and build the relationship. Don’t offer because WI or IA did.
I don't think any of us exactly know what this means as we aren't behind the scenes listening to conversations, reading texts, etc. I think an offer is an offer. Of course you have to offer more guys than 2 or 3 every year because you aren't going to just land any player you offer. However, there have been plenty of tweets, interviews, and other information on this board that shows kids are "hearing" from Minnesota plenty, going to games (football and basketball), etc.

This is just what we as fans and internet posters can see and know. You mention John and Wright. How many games did these guys get to go to? How many practices did they sit in on? How many texts did they receive from an assistant or Pitino asking how they are or congratulating them for a game that week? I'm sure plenty.

You're absolutely right that I'm sure the coaches are prioritizing certain players over others. They should be because it shows they have a vision of what they want the team to look like. Just offering 10 players and hoping something sticks isn't a good way to run a team, however kids take time to make a decision. With that being said they have time to make a decision and that time could include jumping at the MN offer when they get it.
 

manderson1984

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#Levelplayingfield
#excusesareforlosers
Lol I'm not making an excuse I'm using rationale for why that wouldn't be a good strategy. Plenty of Universities with high academic standards are successful in basketball. Sorry you took it that way.
 

BarnBurner

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Lol I'm not making an excuse I'm using rationale for why that wouldn't be a good strategy. Plenty of Universities with high academic standards are successful in basketball. Sorry you took it that way.
Your good Andersen. Fact of the matter is college BB is not played on a level field. Academics being just one little issue.
 

Gopher Teeth

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I would take Schetter over Thompson any day but to my point Schetter was never a priority. His offer came only after other HM did. My question is out players he’s offered in 2022 from MN who does he prioritize? I would assume Aligbe, Holloman, King? Or is he prioritizing all 8 considering all have HM offers from other schools? My point is though he offers MN kids once the receive HM offers from other schools but doesn’t prioritize them like other schools and that’s why they leave. Wright being the worst example because you probably get John with him. IMO if you really don’t want the kids don’t offer them. Offer the MN you think did your program and build the relationship. Don’t offer because WI or IA did.
I don't understand the Wright example. Wright had the offer, was a high priority, but insisted on not committing so he could keep doing visits, and then a higher rated kid wanted to play for the Gophers. I don't see how Pitino is faulted in that situation. I seem to remember people "in the know", after Jelly committing, saying Wright wanted to be a Gopher, but just wanted to enjoy the recruiting game. Well if that was true, then that was Wright's prerogative, but those choices do have consequences and it could break bad. In regards to John, I don't see that being a big loss. Last year he averaged 5 pt/gm, if he was a Gopher and averaging 5 pts/gm we would have people all over GH demanding we recruit over him. I would love to have had Wright, and wish we did, but Pitino can't turn down highly rated players because a kid can't make up his mind, because if you just wait around you end up with nothing.
 

SoMpls

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I don't understand the Wright example. Wright had the offer, was a high priority, but insisted on not committing so he could keep doing visits, and then a higher rated kid wanted to play for the Gophers. I don't see how Pitino is faulted in that situation. I seem to remember people "in the know", after Jelly committing, saying Wright wanted to be a Gopher, but just wanted to enjoy the recruiting game. Well if that was true, then that was Wright's prerogative, but those choices do have consequences and it could break bad. In regards to John, I don't see that being a big loss. Last year he averaged 5 pt/gm, if he was a Gopher and averaging 5 pts/gm we would have people all over GH demanding we recruit over him. I would love to have had Wright, and wish we did, but Pitino can't turn down highly rated players because a kid can't make up his mind, because if you just wait around you end up with nothing.
I don’t think anyone would disagree that John is a miss. He may only average 5 ppg but spring isn’t his value. He controls the paint for Marquette. Idk if Wright was playing games or not. I know “Jelly” was ranked higher then Wright but most of these guys who do rankings haven’t played and having seen 150+ enough to make a true evaluation. They had 4 years to look at Wright. It was a bad decision by the Gophers to accept Washington’s offer before Wright... even in hindsight.

But my order point is the Gophers don’t make enough of the top 75-150 from MN a priority. They don’t build the relationships with those kids like other schools do. Name one kid that they recruited hard (I’ll give you Kerwin Walton and that was a last minute push) top 75 and up from MN that they made a priority and didn’t get?
 

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It's really disappointing to me that the same points keep being brought up as opinions when research I have done and posted on here has shown the opposite. Pitino has done far worse recruiting the state than anyone going back to at least Clem (and I know some about Clem's recruiting to say it was significantly better too but few links are available from that time and most was pre-Internet recruiting sites such as Rivals). If you'd look back through my posts or simply do it yourself through Rivals or 247's databases, you could easily see that the idea that we shouldn't expect better when it comes to instate recruiting is ludicrous. Monson did better under sanctions landing players like Rickert, Humphries, Bauer, and Holman (off the top of my head). Tubby landed absolutely everyone he wanted locally for his first couple years then the state went through a 3-4 year draught where only Joe Coleman (who he also landed) was considered a top prospect. One of the main reasons for discontent with Tubby both here (and internally with the Gopher Athletic Department) was his standing with Tyus, Rashad, and Reid before he was fired in addition to the downturn in his overall recruiting.

Pitino has now missed on every top 100 kid from Minnesota since Daniel Oturu (if he doesn't land Chet...fingers crossed) depending on the site you choose and the qualifications for Minnesota (does Kendall Brown count to you?) that's 8-10 kids. Depending on the site you choose Pitino has landed a grand total of 0 or 1 top 100 kids in those 3 classes (Isaiah Ihnen just sneaks in at 98 on 247)out of his 9 total commitments. The StarTribune published before Treyton Thompson committed that some obscene number of kids from Minnesota (16? 18?...again over doing the research for others look it up) had turned down Minnesota in a row. Again this included people I don't think should count that probably didn't have a committable offer (Roddy) and had extenuating circumstances (Madsen wanting to play with his brother).

Nobody is asking the Gophers to land every top 15 kid that comes through locally regardless of who the coach is. Nobody is asking them to land every kid from Minnesota who is ranked in the top 100. It's fair to expect any coach to win battles for maybe 1/3 of the true big time kids and then not lose kids like Dawson Garcia to Baylor or Jericho Sims to Texas. Again, if you can win another way great. If you can land out of state top 50 kids (many non Blue Bloods do!), great. If you can win with (usually) middling recruiting classes like Wisconsin, great. Pitino hasn't hit big on a lowly ranked kid in his entire tenure.

The 2020 class was much more disappointing to me than this one. Pitino was coming off his only NCAA tournament win, had just received an extension, and had a brand new practice facility to show off. No on Suggs, No on Garcia, No on Dainja, No on Carlson, No on Walton. No top 100 recruits and only Walton landed at a Blue Blood. I am certainly not surprised that now that he's on the hottest of hot seats he's recruiting like he is.

There's no reason to put the bar at Pitino for recruiting success for whoever eventually replaces him just like there's no reason to not hold Pitino to the standards of Tubby and Monson (!) before him.
 
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It's really disappointing to me that the same points keep being brought up as opinions when research I have done and posted on here has shown the opposite. Pitino has done far worse recruiting the state than anyone going back to at least Clem (and I know some about Clem's recruiting to say it was significantly better too but few links are available from that time and most was pre-Internet recruiting sites such as Rivals). If you'd look back through my posts or simply do it yourself through Rivals or 247's databases, you could easily see that the idea that we shouldn't expect better when it comes to instate recruiting is ludicrous. Monson did better under sanctions landing players like Rickert, Humphries, Bauer, and Holman (off the top of my head). Tubby landed absolutely everyone he wanted locally for his first couple years then the state went through a 3-4 year draught where only Joe Coleman (who he also landed) was considered a top prospect. One of the main reasons for discontent with Tubby both here (and internally with the Gopher Athletic Department) was his standing with Tyus, Rashad, and Reid before he was fired in addition to the downturn in his overall recruiting.

Pitino has now missed on every top 100 kid from Minnesota since Daniel Oturu (if he doesn't land Chet...fingers crossed) depending on the site you choose and the qualifications for Minnesota (does Kendall Brown count to you?) that's 8-10 kids. Depending on the site you choose Pitino has landed a grand total of 0 or 1 top 100 kids in those 3 classes (Isaiah Ihnen just sneaks in at 98 on 247)out of his 9 total commitments. The StarTribune published before Treyton Thompson committed that some obscene number of kids from Minnesota (16? 18?...again over doing the research for others look it up) had turned down Minnesota in a row. Again this included people I don't think should count that probably didn't have a committable offer (Roddy) and had extenuating circumstances (Madsen wanting to play with his brother).

Nobody is asking the Gophers to land every top 15 kid that comes through locally regardless of who the coach is. Nobody is asking them to land every kid from Minnesota who is ranked in the top 100. It's fair to expect any coach to win battles for maybe 1/3 of the true big time kids and then not lose kids like Dawson Garcia to Baylor or Jericho Sims to Texas. Again, if you can win another way great. If you can land out of state top 50 kids (many non Blue Bloods do!), great. If you can win with (usually) middling recruiting classes like Wisconsin, great. Pitino hasn't hit big on a lowly ranked kid in his entire tenure.

The 2020 class was much more disappointing to me than this one. Pitino was coming off his only NCAA tournament win, had just received an extension, and had a brand new practice facility to show off. No on Suggs, No on Garcia, No on Dainja, No on Carlson, No on Walton. No top 100 recruits and only Walton landed at a Blue Blood. I am certainly not surprised that now that he's on the hottest of hot seats he's recruiting like he is.

There's no reason to put the bar at Pitino for recruiting success for whoever eventually replaces him just like there's no reason to not hold Pitino to the standards of Tubby and Monson (!) before him.
Garcia ended up at Marquette...
 

bc2211

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It's really disappointing to me that the same points keep being brought up as opinions when research I have done and posted on here has shown the opposite. Pitino has done far worse recruiting the state than anyone going back to at least Clem (and I know some about Clem's recruiting to say it was significantly better too but few links are available from that time and most was pre-Internet recruiting sites such as Rivals). If you'd look back through my posts or simply do it yourself through Rivals or 247's databases, you could easily see that the idea that we shouldn't expect better when it comes to instate recruiting is ludicrous. Monson did better under sanctions landing players like Rickert, Humphries, Bauer, and Holman (off the top of my head). Tubby landed absolutely everyone he wanted locally for his first couple years then the state went through a 3-4 year draught where only Joe Coleman (who he also landed) was considered a top prospect. One of the main reasons for discontent with Tubby both here (and internally with the Gopher Athletic Department) was his standing with Tyus, Rashad, and Reid before he was fired in addition to the downturn in his overall recruiting.

Pitino has now missed on every top 100 kid from Minnesota since Daniel Oturu (if he doesn't land Chet...fingers crossed) depending on the site you choose and the qualifications for Minnesota (does Kendall Brown count to you?) that's 8-10 kids. Depending on the site you choose Pitino has landed a grand total of 0 or 1 top 100 kids in those 3 classes (Isaiah Ihnen just sneaks in at 98 on 247)out of his 9 total commitments. The StarTribune published before Treyton Thompson committed that some obscene number of kids from Minnesota (16? 18?...again over doing the research for others look it up) had turned down Minnesota in a row. Again this included people I don't think should count that probably didn't have a committable offer (Roddy) and had extenuating circumstances (Madsen wanting to play with his brother).

Nobody is asking the Gophers to land every top 15 kid that comes through locally regardless of who the coach is. Nobody is asking them to land every kid from Minnesota who is ranked in the top 100. It's fair to expect any coach to win battles for maybe 1/3 of the true big time kids and then not lose kids like Dawson Garcia to Baylor or Jericho Sims to Texas. Again, if you can win another way great. If you can land out of state top 50 kids (many non Blue Bloods do!), great. If you can win with (usually) middling recruiting classes like Wisconsin, great. Pitino hasn't hit big on a lowly ranked kid in his entire tenure.

The 2020 class was much more disappointing to me than this one. Pitino was coming off his only NCAA tournament win, had just received an extension, and had a brand new practice facility to show off. No on Suggs, No on Garcia, No on Dainja, No on Carlson, No on Walton. No top 100 recruits and only Walton landed at a Blue Blood. I am certainly not surprised that now that he's on the hottest of hot seats he's recruiting like he is.

There's no reason to put the bar at Pitino for recruiting success for whoever eventually replaces him just like there's no reason to not hold Pitino to the standards of Tubby and Monson (!) before him.
A lot of reasonable takes in here. All things considered, however, I don’t buy the assertion that Pitino hasn’t assembled enough talent to win.

Every year, we have had 7 guys ready to compete with the top tier of the big ten, and yet we haven fallen flat for various reasons. If I had to pick one biggest concern, I’d say that almost every year, we have a fatal flaw at one position that costs us multiple games. I think it’s a separate issue than recruiting high level talent, because a good coach should be able to figure out how to develop role players or game plan to shield the weakness.
 

USAF

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I will agree with the older examples that he hadn’tus not winning.
A lot of reasonable takes in here. All things considered, however, I don’t buy the assertion that Pitino hasn’t assembled enough talent to win.

Every year, we have had 7 guys ready to compete with the top tier of the big ten, and yet we haven fallen flat for various reasons. If I had to pick one biggest concern, I’d say that almost every year, we have a fatal flaw at one position that costs us multiple games. I think it’s a separate issue than recruiting high level talent, because a good coach should be able to figure out how to develop role players or game plan to shield the weakness.
Every year we've had 7 guys ready to compete with the top tier of the B1G??

No.
 
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