4* recruits in each of last six classes! Has Pitino turned the corner?

alchemy2u

Active member
Disagree on depth. What do we do if Oturu gets injured or is in foul trouble? We don’t have a proven big on the roster.
We may have to get used to it. As we get better recruits and they leave early for the next level, we will just have to reload and depend on proven talent more often.
 
Center is a position that is lacking quality depth, but it's hard to carry more than 2-3 centers these days. We definitely have improved depth though, last year I didn't trust anyone off the bench except Stockman. Stull, Hurt, Omerssa, and Washington really struggled to give us much positive and had to mostly hope for not being negative when they got in. This year at least Omerssa is a year older, Hurt is a senior and hopefully will finally gain some confidence, and Williams/Ihnen is an improvement over Washington/Stull. In addition you have Greenlee/Freeman this year who are at least good enough athletes with the will to play some really solid defense for 5-7 mins a night.
 

Otis

Well-known member
Oturu with the extra pounds won't have to push as much and he should have picked up enough after a whole season to cut back on fouls.

Freeman should be a suitable replacement for Matz. He has a big body and looks to be more athletic. I'm sure he doesn't have the soft touch of Matz around the basket, but we weren't exactly counting on Matz for points.

Plus, Freeman and Oturu have been going at each other every day for at least three months now! I'm pretty sure the Freshman is getting a good education from trying to hold down Oturu on a daily basis. That relationship is going to make both better.
 

John Galt

Well-known member
We may have to get used to it. As we get better recruits and they leave early for the next level, we will just have to reload and depend on proven talent more often.
Huh? We've had one guy in 6 years leave early and he spent most of last year playing PG. What does that have to do with depth behind Oturu and bodies at PF?
 

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
If there's one area where you can skate by with limited depth, it's probably at C or PF - just because there are fewer traditional big men any more, and a lot more teams are going with smaller lineups. the days of the 6'11" brawny dude who plays with his back to the basket are dwindling. (except at Purdue) and if there is a 6'11' guy on the court, he's just as likely to be sitting out on the perimeter hoisting up 3-pointers.

1 big man, 3 wing types and a point/combo guard. that describes a lot of teams these days.
 

builtbadgers

Well-known member
Awesome get in Mashburn but turning the corner will mean getting way more out of nearly every 4 star. Tons of programs have recruited worse by ranking only to destroy is in actual team and individual accomplishments. Put your classes together and win conference titles ! Do it by winning a ton,winning something. We have the players to win right now.
 

dpodoll68

Elite Poster
We may have to get used to it. As we get better recruits and they leave early for the next level, we will just have to reload and depend on proven talent more often.
I somehow missed this gem. It's been 15 years since we've had anyone drafted into the NBA, and now we're worried about a bunch of early entrants? Wow. I wish that I could leave reality and join you in rainbow and unicorn land.
 

alchemy2u

Active member
I somehow missed this gem. It's been 15 years since we've had anyone drafted into the NBA, and now we're worried about a bunch of early entrants? Wow. I wish that I could leave reality and join you in rainbow and unicorn land.
Don't get stuck in the past. As we recruit better players, there will be the chance of some leaving early. How about Garcia, isn't he projected to be an early NBA player?

I was just optimistically talking about how we will have to get used to young players taking leadership roles. No fans thought that Gabe was able to take on such responsibility as a freshman.

If Pitino continues to bring in top 20-30 ranked classes, then we will have some players that can step-up and fill in big roles without haven played much in the past (freshman or sophomores). So. it was a response to people being fearful of "unproven" players.
 
Don't get stuck in the past. As we recruit better players, there will be the chance of some leaving early. How about Garcia, isn't he projected to be an early NBA player?

I was just optimistically talking about how we will have to get used to young players taking leadership roles. No fans thought that Gabe was able to take on such responsibility as a freshman.

If Pitino continues to bring in top 20-30 ranked classes, then we will have some players that can step-up and fill in big roles without haven played much in the past (freshman or sophomores). So. it was a response to people being fearful of "unproven" players.
Not sure why so many people are skeptical about unproven players. These kids play so much basketball now there are nearly ready from day one. There is always an adjustment period as a Freshman as the talent is greater, but it seems to be a much shorter adjustment period today than it was 20 years ago. If they can ball, they will ball regardless of how much B1G action they have seen.
 

dpodoll68

Elite Poster
Don't get stuck in the past. As we recruit better players, there will be the chance of some leaving early. How about Garcia, isn't he projected to be an early NBA player?

I was just optimistically talking about how we will have to get used to young players taking leadership roles. No fans thought that Gabe was able to take on such responsibility as a freshman.

If Pitino continues to bring in top 20-30 ranked classes, then we will have some players that can step-up and fill in big roles without haven played much in the past (freshman or sophomores). So. it was a response to people being fearful of "unproven" players.
I'm not stuck in the past, I'm living in the present. You're living in fantasy land.
 

bga1

Well-known member
I somehow missed this gem. It's been 15 years since we've had anyone drafted into the NBA, and now we're worried about a bunch of early entrants? Wow. I wish that I could leave reality and join you in rainbow and unicorn land.
What do you think of the current class so far? What would you think if we get Garcia in addition to the current pair?
 

dpodoll68

Elite Poster
What do you think of the current class so far? What would you think if we get Garcia in addition to the current pair?
It's a very solid class. It will be among the best ever at Minnesota if Garcia signs on.

The problem is - Pitino has always been a solid recruiter, and yet look at his record. It's an even greater indictment of his coaching ability that he takes upper-third Big Ten recruiting classes and turns them into lower-third Big Ten results.
 

dpodoll68

Elite Poster
Then why do so many of your replies depend upon negative history to justify your arguments?

Change Your Best, be optimistic about the future.
The past informs the present. Delusions inform fantasy.

The future will take its course regardless of my level of optimism. I've seen very little to make me optimistic about the future of the Gopher basketball program under its current leadership.
 

manderson1984

Active member
The past informs the present. Delusions inform fantasy.

The future will take its course regardless of my level of optimism. I've seen very little to make me optimistic about the future of the Gopher basketball program under its current leadership.
So what's your purpose in posting this then? Keep the already healthy negative (whether earned or not) fan base more negative? Alchemy is quite positive, but he's not delusional.
 

dpodoll68

Elite Poster
So what's your purpose in posting this then? Keep the already healthy negative (whether earned or not) fan base more negative? Alchemy is quite positive, but he's not delusional.
I post here to share my opinions, just like everyone else. If you don't like my opinions, tough.
 

manderson1984

Active member
I post here to share my opinions, just like everyone else. If you don't like my opinions, tough.
First part is totally fair and valid. I like many of your posts because you back arguments with data. The part in bold that many of your posts have is just trolling and unnecessary. Just sharing my opinion.
 

bga1

Well-known member
It's a very solid class. It will be among the best ever at Minnesota if Garcia signs on.

The problem is - Pitino has always been a solid recruiter, and yet look at his record. It's an even greater indictment of his coaching ability that he takes upper-third Big Ten recruiting classes and turns them into lower-third Big Ten results.
I agree with you on the recruits and he is a good recruiter. The difficulty he has had can in large part be put to misfortune with injuries and the Lynch issue. We would be looking at definitely three NCAAs in a row (never been done here) had he not had the huge run of bad luck two years back. I think he needs to continue to improve and he has improved. This year will show a lot as he has less star power but still a potentially good number of pieces. If he has reasonable luck this season will be a good measuring stick as to how he adapts to losing Murphy and Coffey. What finish in conference would cause you to say...hey he might just get 'er done here? I will say 7th or better this year is pretty darn solid. You? Thanks!
 

builtbadgers

Well-known member
I agree with you on the recruits and he is a good recruiter. The difficulty he has had can in large part be put to misfortune with injuries and the Lynch issue. We would be looking at definitely three NCAAs in a row (never been done here) had he not had the huge run of bad luck two years back. I think he needs to continue to improve and he has improved. This year will show a lot as he has less star power but still a potentially good number of pieces. If he has reasonable luck this season will be a good measuring stick as to how he adapts to losing Murphy and Coffey. What finish in conference would cause you to say...hey he might just get 'er done here? I will say 7th or better this year is pretty darn solid. You? Thanks!
It better be better than 7th ! That would be tied for the 2nd best he has done here with 4th being the best. Lynch is on him, other coaches had red lights on that kid day one. There have been poor characters, poor foundation and no identity. It is all on him. Still, he has the chance to get it done now. Iam not from here but always amazed at how many fans here that think what Kill did here is really food or what Pitino has done is good. Oh well, it just is opinion.
 
It better be better than 7th ! That would be tied for the 2nd best he has done here with 4th being the best. Lynch is on him, other coaches had red lights on that kid day one. There have been poor characters, poor foundation and no identity. It is all on him. Still, he has the chance to get it done now. Iam not from here but always amazed at how many fans here that think what Kill did here is really food or what Pitino has done is good. Oh well, it just is opinion.
I am from here and Kill can kick rocks, was never a fan. We know Pitino will never pass your class because he didn't win a conference title by year 6. It took him a couple years to get going, but since the 2015 recruiting class it has gone in an upward trajectory. Relatively, Pitino is doing good compared to our last two coaches. Please help the AD find someone better if you know where they are!
 
I’d just like to see Hurt actually show improvement this year. Pitino has had 4 years with this kid and thus far I’ve witnessed nothing short of mediocrity. More minutes hasn’t equated to him being or playing better. Shouldn’t we expect at least some development or if it’s on the kid then bench him or have him find a new home.

I’m hoping Omersa is an example of somebody who thrives under Pitino’s coaching and makes some big strides.
 

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
FWIW, I say the Gophers will have turned the corner when they can run an offense that does not consist of passing the ball around the perimeter until you have 5 sec left on the shot clock, and then jacking up a 3 or making a kamikaze drive to the basket.

As others have said, getting talent is half of the job. coaching that talent is the other half. and I think a fair assessment would be that Pitino still needs to improve his in-game coaching - especially in the ability to make in-game adjustments to what the other team is doing.
 

bga1

Well-known member
It better be better than 7th ! That would be tied for the 2nd best he has done here with 4th being the best. Lynch is on him, other coaches had red lights on that kid day one. There have been poor characters, poor foundation and no identity. It is all on him. Still, he has the chance to get it done now. Iam not from here but always amazed at how many fans here that think what Kill did here is really food or what Pitino has done is good. Oh well, it just is opinion.
No one nationally has them better than 9th 10th or 11th. We took a poll here and the average spot is around 8th with just a few above. If he is 7th he is in the NCAAs for the third time in four years and he will have the job here for a good long time. The squad he is set to have in 2020 is going to be the best since 96-97 and will make a run at the conference. Better a little late than never. This is a transition year. Last year was fair. This year good and next year great.
 

BarnBurner

Active member
It better be better than 7th ! That would be tied for the 2nd best he has done here with 4th being the best. Lynch is on him, other coaches had red lights on that kid day one. There have been poor characters, poor foundation and no identity. It is all on him. Still, he has the chance to get it done now. Iam not from here but always amazed at how many fans here that think what Kill did here is really food or what Pitino has done is good. Oh well, it just is opinion.
Back on the attack.

One more time built - why do you have to mention Pitino's conf record nearly every time you post?
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

Active member
Back on the attack.

One more time built - why do you have to mention Pitino's conf record nearly every time you post?
This thread is about whether we have turned a corner. That necessarily involves an evaluation of how Pitino has done and how well we think we will do this year. Conference record seems relevant to that analysis. The fact that the conference record is unflattering seems more an indictment of Pitino than built.
 

builtbadgers

Well-known member
No one nationally has them better than 9th 10th or 11th. We took a poll here and the average spot is around 8th with just a few above. If he is 7th he is in the NCAAs for the third time in four years and he will have the job here for a good long time. The squad he is set to have in 2020 is going to be the best since 96-97 and will make a run at the conference. Better a little late than never. This is a transition year. Last year was fair. This year good and next year great.
Agree, better late than never. Turn the corner means different things to different people. For it does not have to be a conference title although that would be huge. Do something like 3 straight winning conference records, build something sustainable.
 

John Galt

Well-known member
I agree with you on the recruits and he is a good recruiter. The difficulty he has had can in large part be put to misfortune with injuries and the Lynch issue. We would be looking at definitely three NCAAs in a row (never been done here) had he not had the huge run of bad luck two years back. I think he needs to continue to improve and he has improved. This year will show a lot as he has less star power but still a potentially good number of pieces. If he has reasonable luck this season will be a good measuring stick as to how he adapts to losing Murphy and Coffey. What finish in conference would cause you to say...hey he might just get 'er done here? I will say 7th or better this year is pretty darn solid. You? Thanks!
As a Pitino critic I’ll answer this. If he finishes with a winning B1G record and makes the tournament I’ll be completely on board.

Given the complete lack of bodies and depth at PF and C outside of Oturu, I think an 11th or 12th place finish is far more likely. Would that be enough for you to give up on Pitino? Or will you stay with the made the tournament 2 out of 4 years narrative?
 

BarnBurner

Active member
This thread is about whether we have turned a corner. That necessarily involves an evaluation of how Pitino has done and how well we think we will do this year. Conference record seems relevant to that analysis. The fact that the conference record is unflattering seems more an indictment of Pitino than built.
Sure.

And built has many, many posts that mention his conference record in threads where it is not related. You are silent on that?

I asked built this very, very simple question, multiple times, and he has refused to answer. Telling.
 
Sure.

And built has many, many posts that mention his conference record in threads where it is not related. You are silent on that?

I asked built this very, very simple question, multiple times, and he has refused to answer. Telling.
Please, give it a rest. Why do you care? So what if Built truly hates the Gophers and his only intention in being here is to rip Pitino any chance he gets. Why let it bother you? I personally enjoy some of Built's insights, but if you don't, just block him.
 

manderson1984

Active member
Please, give it a rest. Why do you care? So what if Built truly hates the Gophers and his only intention in being here is to rip Pitino any chance he gets. Why let it bother you? I personally enjoy some of Built's insights, but if you don't, just block him.
Agreed, he's also said numerous times that he looks at the conference record and championships more highly than NCAA tourney wins. Message boards need different views to keep it interesting to follow. We all view what's successful differently
 



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