2020 Presidential Election - Trump versus Biden

howeda7

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Semantics. But i get your point.

Im just saying you cant compare Trump and biden outings like so many trumpsters do on social media
If Biden held a rally with even a few hundred people, Beeg, KGF and company would be here screetching about the hypocrisy of it. Yard signs and rally sizes have never been a measuring stick for electoral support except among idiots.
 

Livingat45north

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Today in Hiden's world:

- Confused Klansman Robert Byrd with Ted Kennedy

- Said he was running for the Senate

- Forgot Mitt Romney's name and instead called him "the Mormon"

- Said he was in PA when he was in OH

- Directed voters to a nonexistent website

He can't even handle the pressure of reading off a teleprompter. This is why they hide him in the basement and keep reporters from asking any questions. And this is someone you want to lead the U.S.?
 

Livingat45north

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Semantics. But i get your point.

Im just saying you cant compare Trump and biden outings like so many trumpsters do on social media
It's not semantics, they are two completely different events. Reading from a teleprompter and only taking scripted questions that have a pre-written teleprompter response is NOT a press conference.
 

Livingat45north

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A tale of two campaigns...

Compare this

1602549782972.png

to this

1602549867547.png

both open events where people could wait in line to get tickets to attend. In Trump's case, there was a very large line that started forming the day before. In Joe's case...
 

Angry

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:ROFLMAO: Biden’s ancestors actually owned slaves. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

KillerGopherFan

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Biden and Harris really need to bone up on their Abe Lincoln facts. Harris completely misrepresented Lincoln’s SC nomination story during the VP debate and Biden doesn’t know the difference between Abe’s “house divided” speech and the Gettysburg Address.

 

Donovan

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Rush Limbaugh just joined Twitter, already more than 150,000 followers, I guess not too surprising considering the size of his audience.
 

KillerGopherFan

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NYT: Experts Confident Pandemic To Be Over ‘Far Sooner’ Than Expected, Trump Efforts ‘Working With Remarkable Efficiency’

A new report from The New York Times indicates that experts have “genuine confidence” that the coronavirus pandemic will end “far sooner” than originally expected and that President Donald Trump’s Operation Warp Speed — the administration’s efforts to facilitate and accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution of vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics — has been “working with remarkable efficiency.”
The report, published on Monday, comes with just over three weeks left in the presidential race between Trump and Democrat presidential nominee Joe Biden.


“Events have moved faster than I thought possible. I have become cautiously optimistic,” New York Times science reporter Donald McNeil Jr. wrote. “Experts are saying, with genuine confidence, that the pandemic in the United States will be over far sooner than they expected, possibly by the middle of next year.”...
 

bga1

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The real racist: Joe Biden The media will cover for him.
 

bga1

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He has 36 trillion in new spending proposals. Anyone saying that he will not raise taxes, step by step on every American that is making enough to pay taxes is a liar. But that was a post by you so......

If the above tweet were true (it is not) then the rich will do the opposite of what was done during the Trump boom. They will invest less, employ less and move more money abroad. In the end it hurts the middle class.

Beyond that Biden is going to cause energy costs for all Americans to rise. Green New Deal.

He is in favor of carbon taxes. That is a tax on all Americans.

There is no doubt that the Biden agenda would hurt that average American's chances of getting a job, getting a raise, lowering their expenses and in general being better off.

Gallup's poll of a week ago says that 56% of Americans think they are better off under Trump than Obama. Biden instructed them to no vote for him yesterday. (Not a good day for Joe yesterday- forgetting Mitt Romney's name, saying that voters don't deserve to know if he is packing the court, forgetting what state he is in and claiming he is going to run for Senator, then telling 56% of people not to vote for him). Maybe the media can save him....
 

saintpaulguy

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He has 36 trillion in new spending proposals. Anyone saying that he will not raise taxes, step by step on every American that is making enough to pay taxes is a liar. But that was a post by you so......

If the above tweet were true (it is not) then the rich will do the opposite of what was done during the Trump boom. They will invest less, employ less and move more money abroad. In the end it hurts the middle class.

Beyond that Biden is going to cause energy costs for all Americans to rise. Green New Deal.

He is in favor of carbon taxes. That is a tax on all Americans.

There is no doubt that the Biden agenda would hurt that average American's chances of getting a job, getting a raise, lowering their expenses and in general being better off.

Gallup's poll of a week ago says that 56% of Americans think they are better off under Trump than Obama. Biden instructed them to no vote for him yesterday. (Not a good day for Joe yesterday- forgetting Mitt Romney's name, saying that voters don't deserve to know if he is packing the court, forgetting what state he is in and claiming he is going to run for Senator, then telling 56% of people not to vote for him). Maybe the media can save him....
I say with 100% sincerity, that if the President could have toned down the WWE attitude about everything, he’d be re-elected in a landslide. It isn’t simply that the media is out to get him. They are. Even in moments when he isn’t filtered by the press, it’s pretty clear he has no off switch. People are worn out by the swagger, bravado, and having to decode what he means.
Biden isn’t leading because he’s set the world on fire, it’s because people want to feel calm and quiet.
Insert all your impeachment and spygate grievances here, but the President leaned into that wind and let the sails fill.
If we are going to be worse off with Biden, some of that blame goes to the folks who couldn’t recognize when constant swagger and self promotion jumped the shark.
 

Spoofin

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I say with 100% sincerity, that if the President could have toned down the WWE attitude about everything, he’d be re-elected in a landslide. It isn’t simply that the media is out to get him. They are. Even in moments when he isn’t filtered by the press, it’s pretty clear he has no off switch. People are worn out by the swagger, bravado, and having to decode what he means.
Biden isn’t leading because he’s set the world on fire, it’s because people want to feel calm and quiet.
Insert all your impeachment and spygate grievances here, but the President leaned into that wind and let the sails fill.
This is spot on. Trump has always been Trump's worst enemy. All he had to do was stop talking out loud........
 

Spoofin

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All this is missing is Mark Dayton's ridiculous assumption that "95% of people will agree this is good". Stop taxing the crap out of all people - including/especially the rich.

I am also sure we all know what it means when taxes will be reduced, on average, to the bottom 95%.
 

howeda7

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I say with 100% sincerity, that if the President could have toned down the WWE attitude about everything, he’d be re-elected in a landslide. It isn’t simply that the media is out to get him. They are. Even in moments when he isn’t filtered by the press, it’s pretty clear he has no off switch. People are worn out by the swagger, bravado, and having to decode what he means.
Biden isn’t leading because he’s set the world on fire, it’s because people want to feel calm and quiet.
Insert all your impeachment and spygate grievances here, but the President leaned into that wind and let the sails fill.
If we are going to be worse off with Biden, some of that blame goes to the folks who couldn’t recognize when constant swagger and self promotion jumped the shark.
The tweets and the self-promotion are part of it. But the man is also truly ignorant and/or an idiot, when it comes to most things related to governing the country. Even that might have been overcome if he surrounded himself with smart people and listened to them, but that happened rarely and is pretty much over.
 

bga1

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This is an interesting view from a pollster that is finding Trump AHEAD. He called Brexit correctly and 2016 correctly. The best bit of information is in the very last sentence. I myself, consider this a 50/50 election. It is going to be close.



Poll after poll show Joe Biden as heavy favorite - despite him not knowing what state he was in when campaigning here in Las Vegas last week, and him mistakenly saying he’s running for Senate. While the Real Clear Politics average has Biden up 10 points, Donald Trump’s betting odds have taken a dive. After a peak of 48%, Bovada LV has Orange Man underdogging it at 35% - Biden -200, Trump +170. The Real Clear Politics average sits at 32.5%.

But not all is as it seems, according to Patrick Basham, polling director at the Democracy Institute. The Democracy Institute is a relative newcomer to political polling - but it correctly forecast Brexit and Trump’s historic 2016 upset. Basham’s latest poll has Trump up 46% to 45%, and up four points in the critical battleground states. I asked Basham why his poll looks so different than the others - and why it’s getting so little mainstream media play.

JIM ROSSI: True or False: We’re in the midst of the biggest American voter shift since at least 1964, and most pollsters cannot or are not measuring it.

PATRICK BASHAM: Partly false and partly true. It’s something of a shift, but not so much historic as an evolution of 2016. The part that is undoubtedly true is that most of the polls are misleading their readers into thinking the election is a done deal.


JIM: Are polls actively misleading people - or simply not able to measure what’s happening?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommyb...reventing-biden-from-being-elected-president/
PATRICK: They’re not mutually exclusive. Some polls may just be off, some are advancing an agenda, and there is an intertwining of the two. In my opinion, there is a misreading of the electorate, based on many assumptions that are not likely accurate.

Polling is supposed to be incredibly scientific, and the science is more advanced than ever. But polling has always been a synthesis of science and art – and polls are more art than science in 2020. One of the major challenges is figuring out how the electorate will look.




JIM: What are some of those assumptions?

PATRICK: With most of the mainstream polls – New York Times, CNN, the university polls – a fundamental assumption is that the electorate – aka turnout – will be much, much larger than 2016. 10-30 million more, that’s 25-30% larger. That makes it essential that polls capture many, many more Democrat voters.

How is the Democracy Institute poll different?

Two key ways – turnout and estimating shy Trump voters or secret Trump voters. The Democracy Institute - along with Zogby and Trafalgar Group – those of us who find a very competitive race see turnout very similar to 2016.

JIM: You work with the libertarian Cato Institute. Most if not all major polls have affiliations with media companies, think tanks, and universities.

PATRICK: Now you have the issue of agendas. It appears today that many corporations and media outlets clearly have a horse in this race and show their candidate to be well ahead. Certain reward for a certain outcome.

JIM: You mention a couple examples.

PATRICK: ORC - Opinion Research Corportation - got fired by CNN after the 2016 election. Their main transgression was that they were pretty accurate.

JIM: Coming from CNN, that doesn’t surprise me.

PATRICK: The USC poll - University of Southern California - repeatedly asks the same respondents 2 or 3 questions daily…

JIM: Like a cross between a poll and a focus group?

PATRICK: …and it showed Trump competitive in 2016. In late September 2020, it was showing Biden’s lead evaporate. They claimed “technical problems” and changed their methodology. They are underpolling GOP voters.

JIM: Let me ask about secret Trump voters aka shy Trump voters. In today’s “woke” “cancel culture,” people risk social ostracism, job loss, mob intimidation and outright violence. Bettors on the underdog see an edge here. Can we measure these voters?

PATRICK: How I come at this is, Democracy Institute’s first public foray into public polling was Brexit. We got it correct – within one percentage point (4% - actual result vs. 3% - our projected result). The reason why we got it right – maybe the only reason – is we believed there were shy Brexit voters. So we devised questions to find out, then applied that to the US election in 2016. We discovered shy Trump voters – a few percentage points, low single digits – but significant in a close race.

Now we come to 2020, and a lot of people are looking. What we found is they do exist and in greater numbers. Our questions go like this: ‘If you were a Trump voter, would you tell anybody? Would you tell family? A friend? A coworker? Would you put a sign on your lawn or your car?’

JIM: In 2016, Trump outperformed the Real Clear Politics average for battleground states by four points. Is that a good over/under for 2020?

PATRICK: I’d advise you to take the over. Nationally - and this is probably conservative, we see it at 5 to 6%. State by state, where the rubber hits the road in the Electoral College, it varies more. We estimate more in battleground states…

JIM: Some of these are literally battleground states – as people argue and in some cases engage in violence.

PATRICK: Very crudely stated, we see three types of shy Trump voters. First is the blue-collar, middle aged white male in the rural Midwest. He is more busy than afraid to tell you. Second is the white suburban female. Third are African-American and Hispanic voters. They are moving toward Trump in significant, maybe even historic numbers.

JIM: In my experience, people don’t easily change their political views. But two things can change that: serious economic risks and physical danger.

PATRICK: The #1 predictor of voting Republican is owning a handgun. Black female gun ownership has skyrocketed. Forty percent of new handgun owners are female; sixty percent are African American.

JIM: How has the media covered your poll? Let me put it another way: Has the media covered your poll, with the exception of the UK Sunday Express and Breitbart? At absolute minimum, it seems very ‘man bites dog’ and a juicy story.

PATRICK: If we lived in a media world today like we used to, or a media world we wish it to be, you’d assume our ‘man bites dog’ story is at least newsworthy. We were getting some attention with our monthly poll. Then two months ago, our September poll showed Trump up 48-45 nationally and up 49-42 in battleground states. Trump started tweeting about it.

Then when the October poll came out, Trump was in the hospital with COVID-19. Our poll was the only thing he tweeted about that day. We got hate mail and personal attacks on a scale that was hard to encounter. How we produced the numbers was not challenged, just that we produced numbers others don’t like. We’ve gone from having the most media-ignored poll to the most infamous poll.

JIM: Do Real Clear Politics or CNN have any objective criteria for being included in their reporting?

PATRICK: Real Clear Politics has no hard-and-fast rules. CNN said, ‘We don’t meet their standards.’ I agree. We tend to be accurate. They simply don’t want a counter-narrative.

JIM: How about FiveThirtyEight?

PATRICK: Most of the polls they have the highest rated are the ones with the worst record in recent years.

JIM: Unlike pundits, bettors benefit from accurate information, not polemics. People often say, ‘The only poll that counts is in November.’ I wrote a book about fraud. I think mass-mail voting brings profound election fraud risks. These polls, to me, are shaping the narrative of how the election is supposed to go. Some bettors worry the game is fixed.

PATRICK: If you came from another planet and looked at every single line of tangible evidence except polling – just about every one of those metrics point to Trump.
 

saintpaulguy

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The tweets and the self-promotion are part of it. But the man is also truly ignorant and/or an idiot, when it comes to most things related to governing the country. Even that might have been overcome if he surrounded himself with smart people and listened to them, but that happened rarely and is pretty much over.
In all honesty, I don’t agree with all of that.
I’ll make my own Trump commercial.
1. During his term, I have paid off all my debt and have been able to save a good amount. This was good discipline on my part, and made possible by very low interest rates and steady business.
2. I care about military issues, and this guy has fewer troops in harm’s way than Obama or Bush.
3. It appears that we are on the verge of a miracle regarding the development of a Covid vaccine. Not all his doing, but he certainly is on the train to get this done.
I have not even ruled out voting for him. It’s his constant blather and the obsequiousness of his core supporters that is making wish he was gone,
and I can’t be the only one. It’s like being in a two seat airplane with Randy Macho Man Savage.

Biden has never excited me, and he’s pulling in greens, socialists and people who want quiet. Heck of a coalition.
 

howeda7

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In all honesty, I don’t agree with all of that.
I’ll make my own Trump commercial.
1. During his term, I have paid off all my debt and have been able to save a good amount. This was good discipline on my part, and made possible by very low interest rates and steady business.
2. I care about military issues, and this guy has fewer troops in harm’s way than Obama or Bush.
3. It appears that we are on the verge of a miracle regarding the development of a Covid vaccine. Not all his doing, but he certainly is on the train to get this done.
I have not even ruled out voting for him. It’s his constant blather and the obsequiousness of his core supporters that is making wish he was gone, and I can’t be the only one.
The only one of those he has much direct control over is #2. And I have given him credit for not getting us into any new wars.

But anyone who cares about the military should also be disturbed that he can't/won't call Putin out for his bounty-gate and be repulsed by his disregard for their service (suckers and losers). Combine that with alienating most of our allies and I can't really give him a plus on foreign policy/military even with the one big plus checked.

The R's big selling point used to be fiscal conservatism. They've blown the debt into the stratosphere. Tax cuts and Bible Banging judges might be enough for some I guess.
 

Wally

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All this is missing is Mark Dayton's ridiculous assumption that "95% of people will agree this is good". Stop taxing the crap out of all people - including/especially the rich.

I am also sure we all know what it means when taxes will be reduced, on average, to the bottom 95%.
What does it mean?
I know my taxes will go up, no doubt. The pass thru business tax cut was huge for us. Still voted for Biden.
 

howeda7

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What does it mean?
I know my taxes will go up, no doubt. The pass thru business tax cut was huge for us. Still voted for Biden.
Either your taxes go up slightly or your kids/grandkids' taxes go up massively. I'll take the former.
 

bga1

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I say with 100% sincerity, that if the President could have toned down the WWE attitude about everything, he’d be re-elected in a landslide. It isn’t simply that the media is out to get him. They are. Even in moments when he isn’t filtered by the press, it’s pretty clear he has no off switch. People are worn out by the swagger, bravado, and having to decode what he means.
Biden isn’t leading because he’s set the world on fire, it’s because people want to feel calm and quiet.
Insert all your impeachment and spygate grievances here, but the President leaned into that wind and let the sails fill.
If we are going to be worse off with Biden, some of that blame goes to the folks who couldn’t recognize when constant swagger and self promotion jumped the shark.
I agree with you that the WWE approach is not a good look. However, I don't think it would have made one ounce of difference with the media. GW Bush was as genteel as it gets and he got hammered by the media. They(90% of them) are Democrats pure and simple. Professional journalism is gone. Opinion reporting is much more marketable and exciting to the drive by viewer and low information voters. They are expressing their opinion and yes hatred for Trump because he calls them out for who they are.

Laugh about the impeachment and Spygate, but a responsible press would have revealed what happened in both to the public and yes Trump would be winning 65-35. What has been done is a thousand times Watergate, yet no one in the MSM has show an ounce of curiosity except to complain about Trump hammering on it "uncivilly". See, in a way, that is the only way it gets exposed, if he says something uncivil. No politician should have to defend himself the way Trump has, but the media is dishonest.

Yesterday, 94 pages were declassified that document how the media colluded with the intel community to further the Trump Russia narrative. Have you heard anything about this? We have the FBI texting reporters to report something, then turning around and referencing the media report as a reason to investigate Trump. That should blow your mind.

The Trump swagger is real, and I don't always love it. But it is exacerbated in a big way by the media hatred for him. I leave you this: Take the Charlottesville lie. He condemned the white nationalists in the full statement "totally" and clearly. Yet to this day the media runs with it. Take the "military are suckers and losers" lie- the facts of that story are off. The trip was cancelled by weather not by Trump so the basic platform the words stand on is a lie. There have been a good number of people who were with him on the trip who say it didn't happen- including John Bolton. Yet the media runs with it. Trump never said you could drink bleach to cure Covid but the media ran with it.

Most everything the media has told you to shape your feelings about Trump is a lie.
 
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KillerGopherFan

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Despite what the conventional polls say, Pennsylvania is close as pointed out in the October Trafalgar poll that was completed yesterday. It’s close in Pennsylvania and a few other states that the media want us to believe it’s not.

 

Angry

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This is spot on. Trump has always been Trump's worst enemy. All he had to do was stop talking out loud........
This goes both ways. All the Dems had to do was not be totally insane and would’ve won easily. They couldn’t do it.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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The only one of those he has much direct control over is #2. And I have given him credit for not getting us into any new wars.

But anyone who cares about the military should also be disturbed that he can't/won't call Putin out for his bounty-gate and be repulsed by his disregard for their service (suckers and losers). Combine that with alienating most of our allies and I can't really give him a plus on foreign policy/military even with the one big plus checked.

The R's big selling point used to be fiscal conservatism. They've blown the debt into the stratosphere. Tax cuts and Bible Banging judges might be enough for some I guess.
There's no reason to believe that ever happened. The Russia bounty fairy tale only surfaced when Trump said he would get us out of Afghanistan. Same semar tactics used against him when he drew down in Syria, where the Kurds would be wiped off the map. The people pushing those unsourced stories, want us in Syria & Afghanistan indefinitely. Dems used to be against that crap.

There's also no reason to believe Trump ever disparaged the military as you claim. 7 eye witnesses went on record saying it never happened. John Bolton, who hates Trump & wrote a book about what a d-bag he is even said it never happened. The main claim in that story about Trump not wanting to visit the French cemetery was completely debunked.

Really? ISIS is no longer a military threat. We've drawn down our troops in Syria. We've drawn down troops in Iraq. We're looking at having all the troops home from Afghanistan by Christmas. NK has been calm for 3+ years. A number of Arab nations in the ME have recognized Israel's right to exist & formed peace treaties with them. You're negating all of those accomplishments over two unsourced accusations, that were dubiously timed, at best? I think it's safe to say you're looking for reasons to negate his FP accomplishments.
 
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