2019-2020 Minnesota Twins Off-Season Thread

bottlebass

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Donaldson is a top player regardless of age and Meada is better than mediocre.
Maeda, projected as a 3 on our pitching staff. 3 is right in the middle which absolutely makes him mediocre. The nicest thing i've heard said about him is he's slightly better than Gibson = mediocre.

Donaldson, we'll see how long he's got. He is past his prime but the sports media reacts like we signed bryce harper or mike trout.
 

GophersInIowa

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Maeda, projected as a 3 on our pitching staff. 3 is right in the middle which absolutely makes him mediocre. The nicest thing i've heard said about him is he's slightly better than Gibson = mediocre.

Donaldson, we'll see how long he's got. He is past his prime but the sports media reacts like we signed bryce harper or mike trout.
By that logic Greinke is also a mediocre pitcher because he was Houston's #3 starter last year.

Meada's numbers were above average last year and pretty much every year, therefore wouldn't that make him above average? If that's the nicest thing you've heard about Maeda, you haven't paid much attention.

Why does Donaldson being past his prime matter? He's still extremely good and put up similar numbers to Harper last year.
 

bottlebass

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By that logic Greinke is also a mediocre pitcher because he was Houston's #3 starter last year.

Meada's numbers were above average last year and pretty much every year, therefore wouldn't that make him above average? If that's the nicest thing you've heard about Maeda, you haven't paid much attention.

Why does Donaldson being past his prime matter? He's still extremely good and put up similar numbers to Harper last year.
YOu missed the part where I said "our pitching staff". Comparing our staff to Houston's is moronic. I've been paying very close attention. He has slightly above average numbers in the NL. Average or mediocre are great descriptions for him until he makes a jump.

Donaldson being past his prime matters for the reason I said. The sports media reacted like we signed bryce harper or mike trout (a free agent in their prime).
 

TruthSeeker

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YOu missed the part where I said "our pitching staff". Comparing our staff to Houston's is moronic. I've been paying very close attention. He has slightly above average numbers in the NL. Average or mediocre are great descriptions for him until he makes a jump.

Donaldson being past his prime matters for the reason I said. The sports media reacted like we signed bryce harper or mike trout (a free agent in their prime).
Donaldson was a top 3 3rd baseman last year, and has played that way for a long time. If he plays that way again, he's a huge addition. His play indicated no signs of decline last year.

Maeda is slightly above average at a cost well-below average. Next to someone on a rookie salary, he's the best bargain around. You are correct that we need a starter who would drop everyone down a rung in the rotation, like Garrit Cole.
 

GophersInIowa

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YOu missed the part where I said "our pitching staff". Comparing our staff to Houston's is moronic. I've been paying very close attention. He has slightly above average numbers in the NL. Average or mediocre are great descriptions for him until he makes a jump.

Donaldson being past his prime matters for the reason I said. The sports media reacted like we signed bryce harper or mike trout (a free agent in their prime).
"3 is right in the middle which absolutely makes him mediocre."

I took that as you meaning #3 starters are mediocre because 3 is in the middle between 1 and 5. I'll still say he's an above average pitcher based on his numbers.

I didn't realize there was a certain way people are supposed to react to a signing. He's very good, it was a big signing no matter how you spin it. He had similar numbers to Bryce Harper last year.
 

bottlebass

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"3 is right in the middle which absolutely makes him mediocre."

I took that as you meaning #3 starters are mediocre because 3 is in the middle between 1 and 5. I'll still say he's an above average pitcher based on his numbers.

I didn't realize there was a certain way people are supposed to react to a signing. He's very good, it was a big signing no matter how you spin it. He had similar numbers to Bryce Harper last year.
"on our pitching staff" for like the 3rd time.... Anybody who is slated a #3 on our staff that is void of a true #1 is definitely just mediocre (or of moderate quality). If he was better than mediocre he wouldn't be a 3 *on our pitching staff* (I put stars in it for you this time so you could see and read it and comprehend it).

I said I was happy with donaldsons signing when it happened and that it was a big signing, especially for the twins but it's not the signing twins fans have been begging for for years like the sports media spun it. At least not this twins fan. I can understand how twin fans who accept mediocrity (oh gawd there is that word again) would eat that fake sports media news all up.
 

GophersInIowa

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"on our pitching staff" for like the 3rd time.... Anybody who is slated a #3 on our staff that is void of a true #1 is definitely just mediocre (or of moderate quality). If he was better than mediocre he wouldn't be a 3 *on our pitching staff* (I put stars in it for you this time so you could see and read it and comprehend it).

I said I was happy with donaldsons signing when it happened and that it was a big signing, especially for the twins but it's not the signing twins fans have been begging for for years like the sports media spun it. At least not this twins fan. I can understand how twin fans who accept mediocrity (oh gawd there is that word again) would eat that fake sports media news all up.
Why do you say that? What were people asking for? A bigger contract? It seems many of the Twins fans that were asking for a big free agent signing disagree with you.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Thoughts - Maeda is not an ace. But, he is definitely better than some of the other Twins' pitching options. Who would you rather have starting - Maeda or Dobnak/Smeltzer/Thorpe? that is the issue until Pineda and Hill return.

Adding Maeda makes the rotation stronger.

and there is no guarantee Graterol holds up in the long run. Yes, he could develop into a closer. but that is not the Twins' big need right now. They have bullpen options. They needed a starter. Good move.

The Twins are a better team with Donaldson at 3rd and Maeda in the rotation. Plus, several players including Donaldson and Maeda have contract incentives that could see the payroll going over $150 mill this year.

And - the word "mediocre." The word mediocre comes from the Latin word ‘mediocris’ meaning ‘moderate or ordinary’. The original meaning of that word was ‘halfway up a mountain.' so, mediocre means average - but the word is often used in a negative connotation to mean poor or inadequate.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Maeda, projected as a 3 on our pitching staff. 3 is right in the middle which absolutely makes him mediocre. The nicest thing i've heard said about him is he's slightly better than Gibson = mediocre.

Donaldson, we'll see how long he's got. He is past his prime but the sports media reacts like we signed bryce harper or mike trout.
I enjoyed a past his prime Nelson Cruz last season. And he's 5.5 years farther past his prime than Donaldson.
 

bottlebass

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I enjoyed a past his prime Nelson Cruz last season. And he's 5.5 years farther past his prime than Donaldson.
Me too! Like I said I liked the Donaldson signing. You and Iowa can't seem to get that through your head. A fan can be happy with something but not think it was perfect or amazing or exactly what they wanted. I want the team to actually get an ace. PERIOD. If not they aren't really trying.
 

howeda7

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Me too! Like I said I liked the Donaldson signing. You and Iowa can't seem to get that through your head. A fan can be happy with something but not think it was perfect or amazing or exactly what they wanted. I want the team to actually get an ace. PERIOD. If not they aren't really trying.
I wanted them to get an ace too. But the reality is that Maeda might well be better than MadBaum, Ryu, etc. The only sure ace available was Cole.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Me too! Like I said I liked the Donaldson signing. You and Iowa can't seem to get that through your head. A fan can be happy with something but not think it was perfect or amazing or exactly what they wanted. I want the team to actually get an ace. PERIOD. If not they aren't really trying.
Like you said in previous posts, we're not that far off on our thinking. I would love to see them get an ace too, and they are going to need one to win a WS. But how many legitimate ace's exist in baseball? 10? Maybe 15?

You can rip me for this stat if you want, but it's the only thing I can think of that combines all pitching statistics, and that's looking at pitchers from a fantasy perspective. Of all pitchers who qualified as a SP, Maeda finished ranked 25th last season, ahead of both Odorizzi and Berrios.

Odorizzi only had 9 quality starts last season, the same number as Maeda, and Maeda spent part of the season in the bullpen.
 

bottlebass

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Like you said in previous posts, we're not that far off on our thinking. I would love to see them get an ace too, and they are going to need one to win a WS. But how many legitimate ace's exist in baseball? 10? Maybe 15?

You can rip me for this stat if you want, but it's the only thing I can think of that combines all pitching statistics, and that's looking at pitchers from a fantasy perspective. Of all pitchers who qualified as a SP, Maeda finished ranked 25th last season, ahead of both Odorizzi and Berrios.

Odorizzi only had 9 quality starts last season, the same number as Maeda, and Maeda spent part of the season in the bullpen.
I won't rip you for that stat. It just shows how much more they need to trade for and get a true #1.
 

howeda7

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Everybody has a price.
Yes, but the price to "tank my season in February by trading my ace" is very, very high. They're better off to wait until July, see how Berrios and Odo look, see if Hill can pitch and how Pineda looks. If Berrios takes a step and Hill is healthy, they may not need to do anything. If not, they can make a trade for someone like Trevor Bauer then for far less then he would cost now.
 

bottlebass

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Yes, but the price to "tank my season in February by trading my ace" is very, very high. They're better off to wait until July, see how Berrios and Odo look, see if Hill can pitch and how Pineda looks. If Berrios takes a step and Hill is healthy, they may not need to do anything. If not, they can make a trade for someone like Trevor Bauer then for far less then he would cost now.
LOL, I want them to win a WS so yes they will need to do something. You are OK with above average as ceiling, I'm not.
 

howeda7

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LOL, I want them to win a WS so yes they will need to do something. You are OK with above average as ceiling, I'm not.
No, I'm not. Most likely they will need to do something. They just don't need to do it right now.

The easiest way to get an ace is to develop your own. Berrios is a level below it. If he can break through the ceiling, that would be the best thing that could happen. I'm not sure he can. Hill when healthy has been one of best 15-20 pitchers in baseball. But those days may be gone. We will get 5-10 starts out of him before the trade deadline.
 

bottlebass

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No, I'm not. Most likely they will need to do something. They just don't need to do it right now.

The easiest way to get an ace is to develop your own. Berrios is a level below it. If he can break through the ceiling, that would be the best thing that could happen. I'm not sure he can. Hill when healthy has been one of best 15-20 pitchers in baseball. But those days may be gone. We will get 5-10 starts out of him before the trade deadline.
I never said they needed to do it now. My whole point this whole time has been attacking the sports media and people who think the twins have gone out and done what the fans have been begging them to do. I want them to do more. Of course at this point it will have to be closer to the deadline. Although that clearly isn't the case 100% of the time since the redsox just unloaded a possibly quality pitcher and a recent MVP....
 

howeda7

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I never said they needed to do it now. My whole point this whole time has been attacking the sports media and people who think the twins have gone out and done what the fans have been begging them to do. I want them to do more. Of course at this point it will have to be closer to the deadline. Although that clearly isn't the case 100% of the time since the redsox just unloaded a possibly quality pitcher and a recent MVP....
I wanted them to raise the payroll to a reasonable level and make the team better. They did. I would have expected them to spend $$ on a pitcher, not a 3B, but that's the way it worked out. They're still better than they were last season. Would you feel better if they had given MadBaum $100 million and signed some cheap veteran to play 3B? I wouldn't.
 

bottlebass

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I wanted them to raise the payroll to a reasonable level and make the team better. They did. I would have expected them to spend $$ on a pitcher, not a 3B, but that's the way it worked out. They're still better than they were last season. Would you feel better if they had given MadBaum $100 million and signed some cheap veteran to play 3B? I wouldn't.
They did? We went from 18th to 17th in payroll last time I checked. Barely increased the payroll past inflation when they are just raking it in. They could have signed some big pitchers and pushed they payroll into the top 10 for a while, won a WS or 2 then retreated again and still been raking it in. They are not serious and you are falling for it like a fool..
 

GophersInIowa

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I never said they needed to do it now. My whole point this whole time has been attacking the sports media and people who think the twins have gone out and done what the fans have been begging them to do. I want them to do more. Of course at this point it will have to be closer to the deadline. Although that clearly isn't the case 100% of the time since the redsox just unloaded a possibly quality pitcher and a recent MVP....
I was trying to ask you what it is fans were asking them to do. I thought they were begging for them to go out and spend money on a top free agent. They did that but now you're saying that isn't what fans wanted them to do. So what specifically is it you're saying fans wanted them to do? Get an ace? That's going to be extremely hard through free agency. There best bet is through trades. The only guys I would consider aces this offseason were Cole and Strasburg. They had very little chance of landing either one of them. Maybe Ryu? I don't think he's done it long enough to be considered an ace IMO.
 

bottlebass

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I was trying to ask you what it is fans were asking them to do. I thought they were begging for them to go out and spend money on a top free agent. They did that but now you're saying that isn't what fans wanted them to do. So what specifically is it you're saying fans wanted them to do?
I use to think you were smarter than this. After last season when we had one of the top hitting line ups not just that year but ever in the history of baseball how many fans were begging the twins to sign another bat? No, fans that have any clue were and still are (as am I) begging the team to go get top pitchers so they can actually win in the play offs. This isn't hard to understand.
 

howeda7

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They did? We went from 18th to 17th in payroll last time I checked. Barely increased the payroll past inflation when they are just raking it in. They could have signed some big pitchers and pushed they payroll into the top 10 for a while, won a WS or 2 then retreated again and still been raking it in. They are not serious and you are falling for it like a fool..
Their payroll last year was ~$120 million. This year it will be $145-150 million. So yes, they did. $150 is about league average, which is where they should be. Do they deserve a medal for that? No. But it's what most reasonable fans were asking for. What move specifically did you want them to make? You seem intent on just being angry at ownership no matter what.
 

bottlebass

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Their payroll last year was ~$120 million. This year it will be $145-150 million. So yes, they did. $150 is about league average, which is where they should be. Do they deserve a medal for that? No. But it's what most reasonable fans were asking for.
It could be up that high depending on incentives. Last I saw it stands in the low 130s and it was 125 last year. I'm fine with them being league average most years but when they have a window like this with the line up they do I want them to splurge a little bit. And again, they spent all that money on another past prime slugger instead of getting what they really needed to win. Like another person said I don't want them to spend just to spend I want them to do it smartly and the smart play here would have been to spend big on pitchers.
 

howeda7

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It could be up that high depending on incentives. Last I saw it stands in the low 130s and it was 125 last year. I'm fine with them being league average most years but when they have a window like this with the line up they do I want them to splurge a little bit. And again, they spent all that money on another past prime slugger instead of getting what they really needed to win. Like another person said I don't want them to spend just to spend I want them to do it smartly and the smart play here would have been to spend big on pitchers.
I'm not convinced any of the pitchers they could have spent big on are any better than Maeda. Only Strasburg and Cole definitely are. I wanted MadBaum. He didn't want to come here. But even even he is not that much better than Maeda if at all. Kuchel and Ryu are not either IMO.
 

GophersInIowa

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I use to think you were smarter than this. After last season when we had one of the top hitting line ups not just that year but ever in the history of baseball how many fans were begging the twins to sign another bat? No, fans that have any clue were and still are (as am I) begging the team to go get top pitchers so they can actually win in the play offs. This isn't hard to understand.
I added to my post after I initially posted it. I get the pitcher part. Bu the only true aces available were Cole and Strasburg and they had very little chance of landing either one of them. There best bet is through trades at the deadline.

The Twins didn't lose the Yankees series because of pitching. They lost it because of pitching, hitting, and fielding. Yes, I hope they can add a big arm at the deadline this year and I think they will try again. Donaldson is about as big of a free agent pick up that they will get IMO and he helps in two areas: hitting and fielding.
 

bottlebass

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I'm not convinced any of the pitchers they could have spent big on are any better than Maeda. Only Strasburg and Cole definitely are. I wanted MadBaum. He didn't want to come here. But even even he is not that much better than Maeda if at all. Kuchel and Ryu are not either IMO.
YOu aren't convinced any are then in your next sentence you say 2 definitely are... Well which is it?
 

bottlebass

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I added to my post after I initially posted it. I get the pitcher part. Bu the only true aces available were Cole and Strasburg and they had very little chance of landing either one of them. There best bet is through trades at the deadline.

The Twins didn't lose the Yankees series because of pitching. They lost it because of pitching, hitting, and fielding. Yes, I hope they can add a big arm at the deadline this year and I think they will try again. Donaldson is about as big of a free agent pick up that they will get IMO and he helps in two areas: hitting and fielding.
I didn't see the rest of your post after you edited it my bad. I agree there was very little chance of landing any of them because the twins won't do what's needed to actually win and you pohlad pocket protectors are enabling them. I'm sick of it.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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I won't rip you for that stat. It just shows how much more they need to trade for and get a true #1.
Or it also shows how few of great starters there are in baseball if you think that Maeda is mediocre, and he's the 25th best fantasy SP.
 
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