10 people killed in Colorado supermarket shooting, including a police officer

MplsGopher

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Let's add more guns and make them easier to acquire.
It's not the number of guns. That will always be a strawman for this country, because we have many, many, many law-abiding, sane people who just love guns. They'll never shoot another human in their lives, with any of their guns. All the other developed countries don't have those kinds of people, mostly. We're unique in that regard, but that in of itself shouldn't matter.


The folks doing these mass shootings don't have to steal them for anyone else. They can walk into a gun store, or show, or go online, get a gun, easy, and then do horrible things.

It's 100% about how to make it more difficult to acquire or maintain possession if you do lose your grip on sanity.
 
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golf

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I agree. None are acceptable. Let's add more guns and make them easier to acquire. It's too difficult now and I bet you can't find a country with more restrictive gun laws that has better numbers than the US.

Many countries have a higher mass shooting rate than the US. My point, therefore, is that it is smarter to let the 40,000 number drive our policy rather than the 100 number.

 

MplsGopher

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My point, therefore, is that it is smarter to let the 40,000 number drive our policy rather than the 100 number.
Which policies address the 100 but don't address the 40k, or vice versa?
 

saintpaulguy

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It is not random if it is someone you know.
This is correct. That is exactly why I said random violence is the least common.

saintpaulguy said:
Random violence is the most feared, and the least common.
Tell that to the many females that are afraid of their men. Most feared and least common? Nope.
If you mean to say that domestic violence is the most feared and MOST common, OK. Than say that. But if you want to nitpick me, watch the splinter in your own eye.
I'd say that sadly, domestic violence causes intense fear in those it affects, but in those unaffected, the less likely threat of being randomly shot at the grocery store is stronger. Do you agree or disagree?
 

Wally

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I
I can honestly say I have no idea why the hell you mentioned me in this post. Not sure I have ever mentioned suicides on here. You really are losing it Wally.
I'm trying to stay ahead of the curve and you attacking me.
😁😁😁
 

Wally

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Seems to me focusing more police in the areas where most murders are occurring would be a good place to start.

Grocey stores, massage parlors, movie theaters, concerts, schools...
How it that possible?
Its impossible to police against random violence.
 

Wally

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They'll never shoot another human in their lives, with any of their guns.

Yea only 24,000 of them shoot themselves a year and that's the number that actually succeed in killing themselves according to the CDC in 2019. By all accounts last year there were probably significantly more. The largest risk of owning a gun is to the gun owner.
 

golf

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Which policies address the 100 but don't address the 40k, or vice versa?

I think increasing policing in areas where most murders occur would be a good start to make a dent in those numbers. As you said try to figure out best ways to keep guns away from those who shouldnt have them.
 

golf

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Grocey stores, massage parlors, movie theaters, concerts, schools...
How it that possible?
Its impossible to police against random violence.

Chicago is well known for their murder rate so would start there. Look at statistics and find other parts of the country where increased policing is needed. Makes sense to me.

Other than that i am not sure.
 

MplsGopher

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Yea only 24,000 of them shoot themselves a year and that's the number that actually succeed in killing themselves according to the CDC in 2019.
The description I gave said sane, and that precludes suicide.

Everything I went on to describe about the easy of purchasing a gun, just as equally then applies to suicide as it does to homicide.
 

MplsGopher

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I think increasing policing in areas where most murders occur would be a good start to make a dent in those numbers.
Not saying it never happens .... but how many times have you heard of simply general policing preventing a murder.

I don't have the details, but I'm assume the guy they just caught in ATL (not the spa guy, the newest one) wasn't just about to do some murder when some local cops just happened upon him.
 

Wally

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The description I gave said sane, and that precludes suicide.

Everything I went on to describe about the easy of purchasing a gun, just as equally then applies to suicide as it does to homicide.

I bet most don't purchase a gun to commit suicide, having one just makes it very easy when the notion hits. I would venture to guess a sizable protion of the population has at one time or another contemplated suicide.
 

MplsGopher

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I bet most don't purchase a gun to commit suicide, having one just makes it very easy when the notion hits.
OK, sure. Or one in the house.

Study would be needed for this.
 

GopherJake

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Good points. The problem is if we focus on the 100 per year killed by mass shootings we may be led to think the solution is to modify or eliminate certain types of guns. Which may or may not help with the 100 while not doing much about the 25000 and 15000. Anyway sounds like we pretty much agree on this. Seems to me focusing more police in the areas where most murders are occurring would be a good place to start.
I would start with eliminating guns from the hands of criminals and making them at least as difficult to acquire as a driver's license. Mandatory sentences for felonies committed using firearms. Three time felon with a gun ==> life in prison, no parole.
 

Wally

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OK, sure. Or one in the house.

Study would be needed for this.

I have had moments in my life where a loaded gun wouldn't have been the best thing in my hand.


The risk of suicide by firearm jumps 100-fold during the first month after purchasing a handgun, even if the buyer is subject to a 10-day waiting period, according to results from the largest long-term analysis of gun ownership in the United States.


The study, reported by the New England Journal of Medicine, also found the danger of suicide by firearm is more than four times higher for women than for men.


"The risk for owners is stratospheric," lead author Dr. David Studdert of Stanford University told Reuters in a phone interview.
 

MplsGopher

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I have had moments in my life where a loaded gun wouldn't have been the best thing in my hand.


The risk of suicide by firearm jumps 100-fold during the first month after purchasing a handgun, even if the buyer is subject to a 10-day waiting period, according to results from the largest long-term analysis of gun ownership in the United States.


The study, reported by the New England Journal of Medicine, also found the danger of suicide by firearm is more than four times higher for women than for men.


"The risk for owners is stratospheric," lead author Dr. David Studdert of Stanford University told Reuters in a phone interview.
Obviously, the purchase of a gun alone is not the thing that turns any person suicidal.

If you're maybe suicidal, then obviously purchasing a gun is going to be a prerequisite for a sharp increase in risk for gun suicide.
 

golf

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Not saying it never happens .... but how many times have you heard of simply general policing preventing a murder.

I don't have the details, but I'm assume the guy they just caught in ATL (not the spa guy, the newest one) wasn't just about to do some murder when some local cops just happened upon him.

Just seems to me if the amount of police presence is significantly increased in a high crime area that the amount of murder would be significantly affected for the better. I know they always talk about how guiliani cleaned up new york so seems like it should be possible elsewhere.
 

golf

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I would start with eliminating guns from the hands of criminals and making them at least as difficult to acquire as a driver's license. Mandatory sentences for felonies committed using firearms. Three time felon with a gun ==> life in prison, no parole.

Im not educated enuf on the issue to comment on your first sentence. Other two sentences sound good imo.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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I bet most don't purchase a gun to commit suicide, having one just makes it very easy when the notion hits. I would venture to guess a sizable protion of the population has at one time or another contemplated suicide.

You're a person with a desired solution, searching for a problem to justify it. Gun violence numbers in the US are intentionally inflated to sway the ignorant. They're propped up by adding suicides. Your guess in this post, is just that. A guess, hoping to validate a desired outcome that you have no good argument for.

In regards to suicides, there are solutions that would reduce our suicides, without taking away anyone's rights, but the real concern of the gun control people is the "control", not the "guns".

If anything, the US is a shining example in the overall suicide data. We're #1 in per capita gun ownership, with the 2nd place country having half what we have, and yet we're number #34 in suicide rate.

Japan has a higher suicide rate than the US, but no guns. They drink bleach. Sweden, the go-to country for many Socialists to point to their successes, also has a higher suicide rate than we do. In the UK, which also has very fews guns, they gulp down a bottle of acetaminophen. People who want to kill themselves, will.

If we genuinely care about suicides (which the gun control people don't, imo) then let's talk about end-of-life rights for the terminally ill. That would lower our numbers considerably.
 
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BarnBurner

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This is correct. That is exactly why I said random violence is the least common.



If you mean to say that domestic violence is the most feared and MOST common, OK. Than say that. But if you want to nitpick me, watch the splinter in your own eye.
I'd say that sadly, domestic violence causes intense fear in those it affects, but in those unaffected, the less likely threat of being randomly shot at the grocery store is stronger. Do you agree or disagree?
So you knew what I said, and you just want be a wad. Nice work shill pauli!

BTW - your tone is quite testy lately. No cheques from the natives?
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Just seems to me if the amount of police presence is significantly increased in a high crime area that the amount of murder would be significantly affected for the better. I know they always talk about how guiliani cleaned up new york so seems like it should be possible elsewhere.

Guiliani ran proactive policing. They call it the "Broken Windows" model. In NYC when Giuliani took over, the cops wouldn't waste their time arresting people for petty stuff like shoplifting, doing drugs on the street, jumping turnstyles, or vandalism. Under Giuliani they began arresting people for their crimes. What they discovered was that the violent crime rate dropped because the same people doing drugs on the street corner, jumping turnstyles, and committing vandalism, were also the same people committing violent crimes. By getting those people off the streets for minor crimes, they avoided those same people committing major crimes.
 

saintpaulguy

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So you knew what I said, and you just want be a wad. Nice work shill pauli!

BTW - your tone is quite testy lately. No cheques from the natives?
Yeah, some people just gotta badger for no good reason, only personal ones.
 

Wally

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You're a person with a desired solution, searching for a problem to justify it.

I don't have a desired solution. I want to be able to purchase an AR-15 with a hundred round drum. Seriously. Actually my dream gun is a BMG 50, my wife said go ahead and get one, then I told her its $10,000 and $10 a bullet. If I ever want/need to kill alot of people I would like to have the means.
😯😯😯
 

Spoofin

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I'm trying to stay ahead of the curve and you attacking me.
😁😁😁
Meh. I'm not a 2nd ammendment guy. I'm for stricter gun control. I think we need improvements on who can own, what they can own, how much they can own, how they go about becoming an owner, and penalties for improper use of. I'm likely more liberal on the topic than many lefties here, certainly more than you --- pretty surprising for a Trumpster, huh? You throwing out some snipet about how suicide only takes one-bullet and then throwing my name out there is just random and stupid.
 

justthefacts

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Many countries have a higher mass shooting rate than the US. My point, therefore, is that it is smarter to let the 40,000 number drive our policy rather than the 100 number.


This link uses John Lott's data. John Lott's research has a very controversial reputation. It's easy to manipulate the statistics through choices of definition of these events.


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Even just going to his organization's site tells you all you need to know about his agenda:


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In short, John Lott is not a serious researcher
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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I don't have a desired solution. I want to be able to purchase an AR-15 with a hundred round drum. Seriously. Actually my dream gun is a BMG 50, my wife said go ahead and get one, then I told her its $10,000 and $10 a bullet. If I ever want/need to kill alot of people I would like to have the means.
😯😯😯

I'm not a gun guy, but why would I care if you want to buy that? If it's legal & you can pass the existing background check, knock yourself out.
 

cncmin

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It's not the number of guns. That will always be a strawman for this country, because we have many, many, many law-abiding, sane people who just love guns. They'll never shoot another human in their lives, with any of their guns. All the other developed countries don't have those kinds of people, mostly. We're unique in that regard, but that in of itself shouldn't matter.


The folks doing these mass shootings don't have to steal them for anyone else. They can walk into a gun store, or show, or go online, get a gun, easy, and then do horrible things.

It's 100% about how to make it more difficult to acquire or maintain possession if you do lose your grip on sanity.
This is not correct. The availability of guns directly correlates with increases in gun deaths. Even the most ardent of gun advocates have been known to accidentally admit this when they are not careful.

Why? Simple. We'll use examples. Crimes of passion: if a gun isn't available, it's a lot harder to kill someone during the most fraught of emotional states. If a deadly weapon - particularly one that is far harder to kill someone with than a gun - is not available, the emotions are likely to dissipate, and the crime will never happen. Crimes of intent: if a gun isn't available, it's a lot more difficult to kill someone, and this will dissuade a large number of would-be killers. Suicide: the use of guns is far more deadly than other methods. Accidental shootings: obvious.

We could go on and on. Is it the only variable? Of course not. But the cause/effect correlation is strong.
 
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