’18 Athletic Department Study Showed Serious Racial Bias in Iowa Football

short ornery norwegian

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My takeaway from this thread is that Pompous is a closet Iowa Fan.

He has a secret tattoo of Herky the Hawk.

Seriously - I understand that some people can see racism or bias where it doesn't exist. People in general have an unfortunate tendency to see what we want to see.

but the opposite can also be true. some people are unable or unwilling to see racism or bias where it does exist.

And in today's polarized environment, it's hard to have a nuanced discussion without things deteriorating quickly into name-calling and insults.

bottom line - if a program is having trouble, I would rather have it be Iowa as opposed to MN. the Gophers have had enough issues over the years. Let some of the other teams go through the bleep-storm for a while. time for Floyd to come home for a nice long stay!
 

MplsGopher

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some people are unable or unwilling to see racism or bias where it does exist.

Not always, but generally these are the people vote conservative.
 

Maverick

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some people are unable or unwilling to see racism or bias where it does exist.

Not always, but generally these are the people vote conservative.
Prove it! You stereotype more than any other poster I've seen!
 

Pompous Elitist

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The author doesn’t dive into or differentiate between a black football player at Ohio St who doesn’t graduate because he is drafted by the NFL, and a black player at Iowa who doesn’t graduate because he leaves the program due to racist culture.
OTOH I'm certain you carefully counted the numbers of each.
 

Pompous Elitist

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The thing that really bothers me about this thread - and I think this is a symbolic microcosm of our issues in America - is that we have some posters saying "We don't have any facts. We just have the black players' stories."

This is pretty much what happened when the #MeToo movement started. This is also what has gone on for decades in relation to police brutality and black people. How many were killed or badly injured and were swept under the rug because we didn't have video easily available and shareable? Think about that. It took video evidence of these crimes for the bulk of this country to listen.

Sadly, this is how it seems to play out in America when a previously underrepresented - or oppressed - group starts to finally speak up. Our default is to say "Well, let's hear the explanation. I'm sure he/she did something that justified the response."

Really despicable that this was the response to women, to gay people, to minorities for far too many years in this country. I hope the next generation can do better than us and our parents and our grandparents.
There are certainly issues with racism in this country, and particularly historically there were almost unbelievable levels of discrimination based solely on skin color. Look no further than than housing at the U. There were very significant issues in the communities that affect wealth accumulation to this day. No argument there.

I’m not convinced the discipline some of the Iowa players received was solely due to skin color. It may have been, but to me that requires a higher evidentiary standard than what has been presented.
 

Pompous Elitist

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My takeaway from this thread is that Pompous is a closet Iowa Fan.

He has a secret tattoo of Herky the Hawk.

Seriously - I understand that some people can see racism or bias where it doesn't exist. People in general have an unfortunate tendency to see what we want to see.

but the opposite can also be true. some people are unable or unwilling to see racism or bias where it does exist.

And in today's polarized environment, it's hard to have a nuanced discussion without things deteriorating quickly into name-calling and insults.

bottom line - if a program is having trouble, I would rather have it be Iowa as opposed to MN. the Gophers have had enough issues over the years. Let some of the other teams go through the bleep-storm for a while. time for Floyd to come home for a nice long stay!
Ferentz for all of his many failings does not appear to be an idiot. He knows he has a high transfer rate. To buy into this story or narrative being pushed by Howe and ESPN one has to believe that Ferentz’s closet hatred of blacks is so strong it outweighs his desire to field a good team or promote a strong team culture. That’s a big ask, IMO. Maybe? It seems more likely he has a very tough standard and some have to travel further to meet it than others. Some just aren’t going to make it.
 

Word

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Ferentz for all of his many failings does not appear to be an idiot. He knows he has a high transfer rate. To buy into this story or narrative being pushed by Howe and ESPN one has to believe that Ferentz’s closet hatred of blacks is so strong it outweighs his desire to field a good team or promote a strong team culture. That’s a big ask, IMO. Maybe? It seems more likely he has a very tough standard and some have to travel further to meet it than others. Some just aren’t going to make it.
First, I personally have never said it's for sure racism. Bad culture or a biased culture is probably more likely. Kirk doesn't have to outright hate blacks to have some assistant coaches or players that are blind to their own biases against black players' culture.

We could debate this all day but we won't really know the answer since none of us were there to witness it though.
 

MplsGopher

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There are certainly issues with racism in this country, and particularly historically there were almost unbelievable levels of discrimination based solely on skin color. Look no further than than housing at the U. There were very significant issues in the communities that affect wealth accumulation to this day. No argument there.

I’m not convinced the discipline some of the Iowa players received was solely due to skin color. It may have been, but to me that requires a higher evidentiary standard than what has been presented.
And your doubts aren't genuine. They're in bad faith.
 

MplsGopher

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Ferentz for all of his many failings does not appear to be an idiot. He knows he has a high transfer rate. To buy into this story or narrative being pushed by Howe and ESPN one has to believe that Ferentz’s closet hatred of blacks is so strong it outweighs his desire to field a good team or promote a strong team culture. That’s a big ask, IMO. Maybe? It seems more likely he has a very tough standard and some have to travel further to meet it than others. Some just aren’t going to make it.
Nope. Just another white person not getting it.

Racism is so ingrained in whites in this country, that they can't wrap their heads around the fact that their racism and fear of dark skinned people is subconscious.
 

Pompous Elitist

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First, I personally have never said it's for sure racism. Bad culture or a biased culture is probably more likely. Kirk doesn't have to outright hate blacks to have some assistant coaches or players that are blind to their own biases against black players' culture.

We could debate this all day but we won't really know the answer since none of us were there to witness it though.
Is it really a ”bad culture” though? Or just different than what you or some others would like to see or experience? Do we need to burn it down? Agree some of the quotes attributed to Doyle and Little Ferentz were idiotic at best, particularly out of context or if said in a malicious manner, but that’s going to happen everywhere people speak without thinking.
 

Pompous Elitist

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I wasn't making an argument that the numbers don't support, as you were on behalf of the author.

Your numbers offer not such granularity or detail.
Your primary concern isn’t the absolute numbers, but the ranking order? Got it.
 

hungan1

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You can't mask the smell of a pig sty with perfume. It is still amazing we don't see very many decommits from the 2021 Class.
 

MplsGopher

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Your primary concern isn’t the absolute numbers, but the ranking order? Got it.
This response is a nonsequitor. I wasn't the one trying to make a conclusion based off either the ranking or the absolute (simple) numbers.

I merely pointed out that the author did not put forth any level of effort in enumerating the very stark differences in life events that lead to the same academic outcome (didn't graduate).

So trying to use the simple academic numbers to make conclusions about life events is of very limited use.
 

Pompous Elitist

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I merely pointed out that the author did not do any level of effort to determine some pretty stark differences in events that lead to the same outcome (didn't graduate).

So trying to use the simple numbers to make conclusions in those regards is of very limited use.
You don’t say?
 

MplsGopher

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You can't mask the smell of a pig sty with perfume. It is still amazing we don't see very many decommits from the 2021 Class.
Uncertain times.

Even if the whole coaching staff gets replaced ... some families may be thinking "well it's still a high level Big Ten program, they'll get someone good to coach, it'll be a winning team with a good chance to develop you for the NFL" etc. ?
 

Pompous Elitist

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You can't mask the smell of a pig sty with perfume. It is still amazing we don't see very many decommits from the 2021 Class.
Probably because a) the players and their families know the coaches much better than we do, b) Iowa’s track record of putting players into the NFL, and c) not everyone views the tweets the same way and may hold private views they’re not willing to share in today’s climate. I’m sure it’s not for lack of interest from competing coaches.
 

MplsGopher

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Is it really a ”bad culture” though? Or just different than what you or some others would like to see or experience? Do we need to burn it down? Agree some of the quotes attributed to Doyle and Little Ferentz were idiotic at best, particularly out of context or if said in a malicious manner, but that’s going to happen everywhere people speak without thinking.
No one is proposing burning anything down. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Fake
 

Short_Timer

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You can't mask the smell of a pig sty with perfume.
That is simply not true. You can mask the smell of pig sty with perfume. Seen it done many times. Very seldom does it not work.

Please don’t drag a pigs reputation through the gutter by associating them with Hawkeye football.

Sorry I know this is really a serious matter, but perfume works on pig sty.
 

#2Gopher

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Nope. Just another white person not getting it.

Racism is so ingrained in whites in this country, that they can't wrap their heads around the fact that their racism and fear of dark skinned people is subconscious.
Unfortunately you hit it on the nail. We've been this way our entire existence as a county.
 

builtbadgers

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Nope. Just another white person not getting it.

Racism is so ingrained in whites in this country, that they can't wrap their heads around the fact that their racism and fear of dark skinned people is subconscious.
You mean in some whites right ? I have many white friends that do not have a racist bone in their body. I know blacks that are racist.
 

EG#9

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Something to consider that hasn't been brought up yet (that I have seen). When Iowa had its outbreak of rhabdomyolysis 13 players were admitted to the hospital. Ferentz was on a recruiting trip and didn't immediately come back to Iowa City. In fact, the University of Iowa's first press conference on the situaton occurred while Ferentz was not in town. This doesn't have anything to do with race (players of different races were hospitialized) but it shows quite a bit about the man. If you are a head coach of a football team and you find out that 13 of your guys have been admitted to the hospital and you are not doing EVERYTHING you possibly can to get back to campus immediately... Doyle was responsible for the workout and eventually would become the highest paid S&C in the country. Some of those kids never fully recovered and never played again and I don't believe any of them had great success at Iowa (can't find the list of guys, so not 100% on that fact).

Ferentz has dominated the rivalries with Iowa State, Minnesota, and now Nebraska. He's done more at Iowa than I thought was possible. He probably would have been fired in 2011 if he coached Minnesota and Doyle for sure would have been gone. At most schools in the country he would be required to be much more vocal and contrite about the racial issues in his program. Iowa is a different place and the sports talk, etc here could NEVER get away with criticizing Iowa coaches much less openly mocking them like you see in the Twin Cities market. As long as the program is successful there won't be much criticism and it certainly allows for coaches to act in a manner that wouldn't be possible at some schools. A lot of guys are coming out and speaking out about the program now with the focus on racial inequalities in this country and maybe they felt they needed that national focus to come out and say something given the power that program holds in the state.
 

MplsGopher

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Something to consider that hasn't been brought up yet (that I have seen). When Iowa had its outbreak of rhabdomyolysis 13 players were admitted to the hospital. Ferentz was on a recruiting trip and didn't immediately come back to Iowa City. In fact, the University of Iowa's first press conference on the situaton occurred while Ferentz was not in town. This doesn't have anything to do with race (players of different races were hospitialized) but it shows quite a bit about the man. If you are a head coach of a football team and you find out that 13 of your guys have been admitted to the hospital and you are not doing EVERYTHING you possibly can to get back to campus immediately... Doyle was responsible for the workout and eventually would become the highest paid S&C in the country. Some of those kids never fully recovered and never played again and I don't believe any of them had great success at Iowa (can't find the list of guys, so not 100% on that fact).

Ferentz has dominated the rivalries with Iowa State, Minnesota, and now Nebraska. He's done more at Iowa than I thought was possible. He probably would have been fired in 2011 if he coached Minnesota and Doyle for sure would have been gone. At most schools in the country he would be required to be much more vocal and contrite about the racial issues in his program. Iowa is a different place and the sports talk, etc here could NEVER get away with criticizing Iowa coaches much less openly mocking them like you see in the Twin Cities market. As long as the program is successful there won't be much criticism and it certainly allows for coaches to act in a manner that wouldn't be possible at some schools. A lot of guys are coming out and speaking out about the program now with the focus on racial inequalities in this country and maybe they felt they needed that national focus to come out and say something given the power that program holds in the state.
First para: lot of similarities with what happened at Maryland. Both canned.

Second para: haha, Nebraska. The rivalry that never was. They played a whopping six times since 1946, before Nebraska was finally allowed into the Big Ten (and only two games since 1982). The Big Ten hoped desperately that Nebraska Iowa would become a thing. That TV audiences outside the two states would give a crap. Nope. And nope.

Dominating Iowa State and Minnesota has obviously been nice. But the one team he can't get past, most years, is Wisconsin.
 

Spaulding!No!

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First para: lot of similarities with what happened at Maryland. Both canned.

Second para: haha, Nebraska. The rivalry that never was. They played a whopping six times since 1946, before Nebraska was finally allowed into the Big Ten (and only two games since 1982). The Big Ten hoped desperately that Nebraska Iowa would become a thing. That TV audiences outside the two states would give a crap. Nope. And nope.

Dominating Iowa State and Minnesota has obviously been nice. But the one team he can't get past, most years, is Wisconsin.
punter sneak. that was the living end.
 

kix4kix

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Ferentz should be fired. Of course, he won't be. Iowa will be hit hard by this with recruiting and he'll be gone in a few years anyway. Shocking report.
 

hungan1

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That is simply not true. You can mask the smell of pig sty with perfume. Seen it done many times. Very seldom does it not work.

Please don’t drag a pigs reputation through the gutter by associating them with Hawkeye football.

Sorry I know this is really a serious matter, but perfume works on pig sty.
Are you in animal husbandry?
 
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