’18 Athletic Department Study Showed Serious Racial Bias in Iowa Football

STPGopher

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So to simplify, do you think that it is important for each player to feel like they are important/ add value to the team?
 

Pompous Elitist

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So to simplify, do you think that it is important for each player to feel like they are important/ add value to the team?
If they add value they know it. If they are not good enough athletically, socially, spiritually, or academically I don’t think that should be glossed over. I could be wrong but Ferentz’s POV is he’s trying to a) prepare guys for playing good football, b) preparing the guys for successful lives after football, c) trying to keep the football program in good citizen status. I don’t know, I seriously doubt Ferentz is a conscious racist. Does he target blacks exclusively for increased discipline and drug testing? I don’t know. If true that’s not ok. If he’s disciplining those that don’t conform to his program without playing favorites that seems ok to me, even if you don’t like it. Words matter.
 

MplsGopher

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If they add value they know it. If they are not good enough athletically, socially, spiritually, or academically I don’t think that should be glossed over. I could be wrong but Ferentz’s POV is he’s trying to a) prepare guys for playing good football, b) preparing the guys for successful lives after football, c) trying to keep the football program in good citizen status. I don’t know, I seriously doubt Ferentz is a conscious racist. Does he target blacks exclusively for increased discipline and drug testing? I don’t know. If true that’s not ok. If he’s disciplining those that don’t conform to his program without playing favorites that seems ok to me, even if you don’t like it. Words matter.
No, he's an unconscious racist. So that makes it OK.

:rolleyes:
 

Pompous Elitist

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No, he's an unconscious racist. So that makes it OK.

:rolleyes:
Have you or anyone else -proven- he treats black students differently? If everyone is held to the same grooming standards, clothing standards, behavior standard is that inherently racist? I’m looking for genuine opinions.
 

MplsGopher

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Have you or anyone else -proven- he treats black students differently? If everyone is held to the same grooming standards, clothing standards, behavior standard is that inherently racist? I’m looking for genuine opinions.
The black players say he and his staff did. I guess we should ignore them and tell them that their feels are wrong and "not reality".
 

WriterGoph

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Right. You can't argue with that jackass. I've seen the GH report showing he's "ignored" by twice as many as the next closest poster. You can't make it up.
What do YOU do here exactly, Lester?
 

WriterGoph

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Have you or anyone else -proven- he treats black students differently? If everyone is held to the same grooming standards, clothing standards, behavior standard is that inherently racist? I’m looking for genuine opinions.
Yes. There were 20+ players who came out with various experiences and stories. I guess they all just a had a secret back room meeting and decided they were going to share eerily similar experiences to screw Ferentz?

And Harvey Weinstein was actually a gentleman, right?
 

zman

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Have you or anyone else -proven- he treats black students differently? If everyone is held to the same grooming standards, clothing standards, behavior standard is that inherently racist? I’m looking for genuine opinions.
Good question. I’ve wondered if expecting someone to meet your norms makes you racist, or just biased? Being a middle aged white guy I dislike pants sagging in the back. I don’t care if the person is black or white. if I called out a black person would that make me racist, or just biased to my norms?
 

WriterGoph

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Good question. I’ve wondered if expecting someone to meet your norms makes you racist, or just biased? Being a middle aged white guy I dislike pants sagging in the back. I don’t care if the person is black or white. if I called out a black person would that make me racist, or just biased to my norms?
Well, if a number of black people came out and said you were belittling them for the way they wore their pants, but oddly, white people who also wore their pants the same way never had that experience with you...yes, it would be looked at as a pattern and the reason you were only saying this stuff to black people would be questioned.
 

MplsGopher

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Good question. I’ve wondered if expecting someone to meet your norms makes you racist, or just biased? Being a middle aged white guy I dislike pants sagging in the back. I don’t care if the person is black or white. if I called out a black person would that make me racist, or just biased to my norms?
If only black kids do it, how can you prove that you dislike it because of the style or because they’re black kids doing it??

That’s a thinker, ain’t it?

You’ll immediately fire back that it’s the former, because you’re not a racist. But is that simply because you hate the idea that you are, in fact, a racist??


White people have a lot of self-reflection to do.
 

Pompous Elitist

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The black players say he and his staff did. I guess we should ignore them and tell them that their feels are wrong and "not reality".
Correct, that may be the case. That’s what I’m wondering. We’re they actually treated differently? How would these players know that?
 

Pompous Elitist

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Yes. There were 20+ players who came out with various experiences and stories. I guess they all just a had a secret back room meeting and decided they were going to share eerily similar experiences to screw Ferentz?

And Harvey Weinstein was actually a gentleman, right?
No they didn’t. There were several accusations vs the Doyle, and one or two vs Kirk himself. There were a lot of vague insinuations of not understanding black culture, or black young men. Personally I’d like more hard evidence or details than that before assigning the racist tag.
 

MplsGopher

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Correct, that may be the case. That’s what I’m wondering. We’re they actually treated differently? How would these players know that?
What is “actually”? Should I pull up the file for the invisible, omniscient observer drone assigned to each human to record every second of heir lives?

Gaslghting is fake.
 

Pompous Elitist

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What is “actually”? Should I pull up the file for the invisible, omniscient observer drone assigned to each human to record every second of heir lives?

Gaslghting is fake.
Can you conceive of any reason someone may misunderstand something, or exaggerate, or flat out make something up for various reasons. I’m not saying that’s the case here but it’s possible. Wadley, for example, has already been called out for allegedly tying to get his brother recruited by Iowa but amazingly claims he was unhappy there from the get go. He also allegedly defrauded numerous Iowa fans of autographed memorabilia.
 

MplsGopher

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Can you conceive of any reason someone may misunderstand something, or exaggerate, or flat out make something up for various reasons. I’m not saying that’s the case here but it’s possible. Wadley, for example, has already been called out for allegedly tying to get his brother recruited by Iowa but amazingly claims he was unhappy there from the get go. He also allegedly defrauded numerous Iowa fans of autographed memorabilia.
Seems like petty distractions compared to the weight and gravity of the allegations of the actual topic at hand. If you’re Kirk’s mother or defense attorney, then maybe what you say makes sense.
 

zman

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Well, if a number of black people came out and said you were belittling them for the way they wore their pants, but oddly, white people who also wore their pants the same way never had that experience with you...yes, it would be looked at as a pattern and the reason you were only saying this stuff to black people would be questioned.
Yes, assuming I did not say it to the white kids. If I did, am I racist? Or just have a stick up my *ss?
 

WriterGoph

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Yes, assuming I did not say it to the white kids. If I did, am I racist? Or just have a stick up my *ss?
You presented a question. I gave you a situation in parallel to what has been brought up at Iowa - which this thread is about.

What you are suggesting now is NOT what happened at Iowa. The assistants did NOT ask the white players if they were heading to rob a bank or a liquor store. Do you understand the difference?

In your scenario you clarified above, you would have a stick up your a**
 

MplsGopher

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I'll have to try and remember that. Those who have no faith have a different set of rules.
Every human innately possesses the concept of belief (without hard evidence) and utilizes it every day.

On the specific subject of what happens after you die, perhaps not.
 
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Taji34

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So it really depends. From Kirk's point of view, he may be upholding his "standard" but it really comes down to what that standard is.

The article states "The overarching theme of their anonymous responses indicated that blacks needed to conform to white culture, according to the DTF report." and later states this was a sentiment shared by BOTH white and black student athletes, meaning its just Black student athletes saying this.

Later on “tough,” “hardworking,” and “Iowa,” are called out as part of the mold. This can be racist depending on what you consider hard working or tough. Are students being told they are only hard working if they've worked on a farm, or in some manual labor, and not if they worked part time during high school to support their family? Are students being told that they have to like country music to fit the mold? Are the use of phrases from Ebonics frowned upon while midwestern phrases that are just as foreign to non-midwesterners are accepted and promoted?

And look, he may not be doing it from any sort of place of malice. He may literally just be trying to instill values he was taught, but those values can still be racist even if he was unaware that they were. Does that make him a bad person? No. Should he be willing to listen to the black student athletes and consider the potential harm he unintentionally inflicted and work to stop that harm in the future? Yes. That's what I don't see evidence of.
 

zman

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You presented a question. I gave you a situation in parallel to what has been brought up at Iowa - which this thread is about.

What you are suggesting now is NOT what happened at Iowa. The assistants did NOT ask the white players if they were heading to rob a bank or a liquor store. Do you understand the difference?

In your scenario you clarified above, you would have a stick up your a**
Cool. Just seeing where people stand.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Again - a player was quoted as saying that "players who are not from this region (i.e. not white guys from the Midwest) may not understand the meaning of hard work."

that attitude is coming from somewhere. given how players tend to parrot the head coach, I suspect that the attitude is coming from the coaches.
 

MplsGopher

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Again - a player was quoted as saying that "players who are not from this region (i.e. not white guys from the Midwest) may not understand the meaning of hard work."

that attitude is coming from somewhere. given how players tend to parrot the head coach, I suspect that the attitude is coming from the coaches.
Or their inherently racist and privileged white parents.
 

Pompous Elitist

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Again - a player was quoted as saying that "players who are not from this region (i.e. not white guys from the Midwest) may not understand the meaning of hard work."

that attitude is coming from somewhere. given how players tend to parrot the head coach, I suspect that the attitude is coming from the coaches.
I suspect that’s a general sense of Iowans and Minnesotans for that matter. Lake Wobegon, etc. Nothing inherently wrong with being proud of where you come from or how you were raised. Grow some skin, people.
 
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