What do we need to..

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diefirma

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be the top 1 or 2 team in the conference. It looks like Coach Kill has gotten the team to at least Mason levels. What do we need to go beyond that level.

Just in terms of players for next year I would say we need

Several more speed backs. Edwards is the real deal but he is small and will need some relief during a Big 10 season.

Replacements for Ra'Shede and Johnson.

What else?

PS - I know pissing contests are a lot of fun for some of you but lets all focus like laser beams and keep this thread about football.
 

We have no idea if Edwards is the real deal. We have no idea if he can be an every down back or if he is only a specialty speed back.

We need to continue to develop the offensive line. We need D. Jones and and Wolitarsky to become real threats on the outside and in the slot.

On defense the middle of the line is a concern. Secondary is also a concern. I'm not sure we can get anyone that will step in right away and make an impact. We may just need in house guys to step up and improve. I feel good about Linebacker.
 

Here's my list:

1) Get better players (hopefully our younger guys will develop into them) on the offensive line so we can eventually push around teams like Wisconsin and Michigan State
2) Need to get faster on defense at the LB and Secondary level
3) Love the idea of rotating 8 or 9 DL, but that depth has to be better on the field if we are going to win big with that strategy
4) Add a dynamic WR and RB (maybe Jones/Edwards will be them down the line)
 

Continue to develop the offensive playbook. Our two losses this year were pretty pathetic from an offensive standpoint. These past four weeks, we have seen all sorts of new plays and a good amount of 'trickery'. I really like what we've seen from Donovahn Jones.
 

The playbook doesn't mean a thing. It's all about talent.

We need a better front 7 on defense more than anything else. We do a decent job getting OL here, especially over the last few years. Sure, we could use more dynamic RB and WR, but the biggest thing we need is a front 7 that can stop the run. It's a huge weakness and really the last piece of the puzzle. If you can stop the run, anything is possible.

We need bigger/better DE in the run game. A guy like Cockran should be a situational pass rusher until he can add the strength and size to be effective against the run. That basically goes for the entire DE group. After Hageman, is their a potentially dominant DT in the pipeline? I'm not sure there is. At LB, Campbell is tall, athletic and fast, but he's not much of a run stuffer and his playing time has reflected that. Manuel is a former SS. Hill......is a smart player with serious limitations. Wilson is our best run-stuffing LB and he sits against spread teams. Look at the LB groups for IA or WI. They are physical, athletic and versatile. We need more of that. Right now i feel like we have a bunch of specialists in our front 7. Guys that can play a role well, but not many 3-down players that you can put out there against any offense.
 


tpbeight said:
The playbook doesn't mean a thing. It's all about talent.

We need a better front 7 on defense more than anything else. We do a decent job getting OL here, especially over the last few years. Sure, we could use more dynamic RB and WR, but the biggest thing we need is a front 7 that can stop the run. It's a huge weakness and really the last piece of the puzzle. If you can stop the run, anything is possible.

We need bigger/better DE in the run game. A guy like Cockran should be a situational pass rusher until he can add the strength and size to be effective against the run. That basically goes for the entire DE group. After Hageman, is their a potentially dominant DT in the pipeline? I'm not sure there is. At LB, Campbell is tall, athletic and fast, but he's not much of a run stuffer and his playing time has reflected that. Manuel is a former SS. Hill......is a smart player with serious limitations. Wilson is our best run-stuffing LB and he sits against spread teams. Look at the LB groups for IA or WI. They are physical, athletic and versatile. We need more of that. Right now i feel like we have a bunch of specialists in our front 7. Guys that can play a role well, but not many 3-down players that you can put out there against any offense.
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I disagree. In both of our losses this year, the offense hasn't put up points. The jet sweeps, the triple option, the emergence of Cobb and Donovahn Jones have all been recent developments. We have also moved away from a conservative gameplan with more shots downfield and some well executed blitz plays. Considering where we have been showing up in recruiting rankings, talent isn't the only matter that dictates success. Ability to scheme for the players you have and take advantage of opponents weaknesses is huge. If it weren't, what would be the point in the gameplan if talent is the only factor?
 

Elite Athletes

To answer the original post:

As we have seen, with competent coaching and good player development you can reach the Mason level, regardless of how people rank your recruiting classes. You can, for instance, build a great offensive line by outworking and out-scheming your competition, rather than having to recruit 4 or 5 star linemen.

To reach Big Ten title level, however, you need at least a handful of elite athletes at "skill" positions. We've had a few in Minnesota over the last decade, but never enough to carry the team consistently against better competition. Ohio State will always have those guys throughout their two-deeps, but Wisconsin usually has just enough to put them near the top of the conference (coupled with their exceptional O-Line and D-Line play). The Wisconsin model, I think, is closer to what we can realistically aspire to.

The last guy we had who was at that level of athleticism was probably Laurence Maroney.
 

#1. Better players on both sides of the ball we need more impact players at WR, DT, LB, S, and CB.
#2. We need to continue to improve the depth on the roster at every position.
#3. We need a kicker who can be counted on inside of 50 yards.

In all honesty I dont think its possible for next year but maybe 2 or 3 years from now with improved recruiting we can do that. I think the spaces between us and a Big Ten contender is still pretty severe.
 

WolfontheProwl said:
#1. Better players on both sides of the ball we need more impact players at WR, DT, LB, S, and CB.
#2. We need to continue to improve the depth on the roster at every position.
#3. We need a kicker who can be counted on inside of 50 yards.

In all honesty I dont think its possible for next year but maybe 2 or 3 years from now with improved recruiting we can do that. I think the spaces between us and a Big Ten contender is still pretty severe.
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Kicker is 12-13 inside 50 yds.
 



MaxyJR1 said:
Kicker is 12-13 inside 50 yds.
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Hawthorne was pretty shaky at the start of the season, he's been pretty good down the stretch. I'll be interested to see if Santoso is more than a fat guy kicker, if he can provide accuracy and a big leg.
 

When you consider how young our offense is...the O line, Nelson, Leidner, Cobb, Williams, Wolitarski, I am confident this unit has everything in place to lead us to the top 3 or 4 in the B1G. This is a system that is just now being completely introduced and already opponent defenses are having trouble preparing for us. This is totally different from a month ago when against Iowa we were run middle right, run middle left & then QB take off running.

The defense not so much. Our D line needs more depth and we must replace Hage. Linebackers need upgrading and the secondary is just OK. What I don't know is how the freshmen being red shirted will help. I also don't know enough to say how much system expansion will help.
 

stocker08 said:
I disagree. In both of our losses this year, the offense hasn't put up points. The jet sweeps, the triple option, the emergence of Cobb and Donovahn Jones have all been recent developments. We have also moved away from a conservative gameplan with more shots downfield and some well executed blitz plays. Considering where we have been showing up in recruiting rankings, talent isn't the only matter that dictates success. Ability to scheme for the players you have and take advantage of opponents weaknesses is huge. If it weren't, what would be the point in the gameplan if talent is the only factor?
Click to expand...

A gameplan is only as good as the players that are tasked with carrying it out. More talent = more options for the coaching staff. Play calling doesn't win games, execution does. Your chances of executing increase with more talent.

I understand what you're saying about the growth of the offense, but when i look at competing with any team in the Big 10 i think it starts on defense, and most importantly the front 7. If you can stop the run, you can beat any team on any given day. Sure, your flaws on offense may hold you back and cost you a win here and there, but look at Michigan State. They're getting it down with a dominant D and not much else. They can play with any team in the Big 10 right now. On the other hand, look at Indiana. They've been putting up big numbers on O but they can't stop anybody. Every offensive possession for them is crucial because their D can't get stops. Their offense has no margin for error.

When i look at beating the power teams in the BIG 10 i'd rather be able to stop their run, take our chances with their passing game and see if we can get stops based on their mistakes or a solid play here and there from our D. Teams that can run rarely beat themselves with turnovers and penalties and their play action games become incredibly hard to defend.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Hawthorne was pretty shaky at the start of the season, he's been pretty good down the stretch. I'll be interested to see if Santoso is more than a fat guy kicker, if he can provide accuracy and a big leg.
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Not to turn it into a kicker thread but I am pretty sure they are looking at Santoso as a punter and not a place kicker based on the few comments on him I have seen.

As for taking the next step I would echo those that mention elite playmakers at the skill positions. You need the solid foundation year in and year out that we seem to be developing but to truly be a contender in the conference and on the national stage you need to find a handful of elite guys. As someone else mentioned you don't need a roster full of those guys (though it would be nice) but you need more than what we currently have.
 



Tpbeight is correct. Our weakness is our run defense. Defensive line gets manhandled. Thats why the Wisconsin game really worries me.
 

diefirma said:
be the top 1 or 2 team in the conference. It looks like Coach Kill has gotten the team to at least Mason levels. What do we need to go beyond that level.

Just in terms of players for next year I would say we need

Several more speed backs. Edwards is the real deal but he is small and will need some relief during a Big 10 season.

Replacements for Ra'Shede and Johnson.

What else?

PS - I know pissing contests are a lot of fun for some of you but lets all focus like laser beams and keep this thread about football.
Click to expand...

Playmakers, plain and simple. Minnesota won't be great until they have more playmakers.
 


tpbeight said:
By playmakes, do you mean really good players?
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well yes but principally, great offensive skill players. players that can take it to the house with ease. maroney was the last real playmaker i remember at minnesota.
 


denguegopher said:
tpbeight said:
Play calling doesn't win games, execution does.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Maybe, but play calling can sure as hell lose games.
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Play calling is not a problem with this team. I can't think of one game this year where they play calling cost us a victory.

Playmakers on offense are great, but we need talent in the trenches before thos guys even matter. I think we're on the right track with our o-line and TE group, but i have major concerns with the DT and the LB groups. I like the athletes we have at DE, but i'd like to see them in the 260lb range to help against the run.
Click to expand...
 

This guy makes plays :)

maxx-williams-o.gif
 

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