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PoockItInfor6

PoockItInfor6

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Fleck does a number of things really really well:

- Recruit
- Build team chemistry
- Run a program full of kids that are making great decisions, doing well academically, and staying out of trouble, all while doing a lot in our community
- He’s shown us highs that haven’t been seen in a long time as far as both sustained success and what our ceiling could be

That said, I do get frustrated with his in game coaching fairly routinely. To me it’s much easier to find a way to outsource that and keep stability around the program rather than blowing everything up because we’ve stubbed our toe a few times this year.

Go Gophers, thank you to our coach and our players for putting it all on the line each and every week representing our University!
 


I don't think Fleck is a bad coach. But I do think that Fleck's system or his approach has limits.

in some ways, Fleck is a lot like Jerry Kill. both can come into a program, build it up and put it on a more solid footing - but they also have limitations that prevent the program from climbing into the upper echelon. with Kill, it was recruiting and a conservative offensive system. with Fleck, the recruiting is a little better, but the offense is still conservative and Fleck (IMHO) micro-manages his coordinators.

Yes, he had an 11-win season. the question is - can he do that again? I'd be willing to bet that Fleck is not going to see another double-digit win season - especially with the new 18-team B1G and no divisions.
 

I'm curious about all the "system" talk.

Did the "system" mean AK was not a great QB / missed that pass to the TE in the Illinois game? That call, that pass was right there to be had.

I feel like we'd be having a lot different conversation if that and another good drive during the NW game had set this team on a better path.

And I mean the defense has hardly been a weakness until this year, is that "system" thing?
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I'm curious about all the "system" talk.

Did the "system" mean AK was not a great QB / missed that pass to the TE in the Illinois game? That call, that pass was right there to be had.

I feel like we'd be having a lot different conversation if that and another good drive during the NW game had set this team on a better path.

And I mean the defense has hardly been a weakness until this year, is that "system" thing?
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I tend to agree:

Flip those two games and we are 5-2 and 7-3 with a terrible loss at Purdue and still falling apart. However there are other games that could have flipped.

Harbaugh at Michigan has the same philosophy in winning games at Michigan. He has much better talent. They ran the ball 26 straight time in the second half and just waited for Franklin to make the decision to go for it and give the game away on a 4th down.

It's a talent and consistency thing right now and our defense can't complement our offense. Hense more passing the last couple of weeks.

14 P5 teams have run the ball mor than us this year.

Oregon State
Utah
Notre Dame
Penn State

Examples of teams run and pass and run about the same number of plays per game to us.
 


I'm down but not out, however I am challenged to read the tea leaves from year-to-year to know what to expect from Fleck-coached teams.

Certainly 2019 skewed my own expectations that makes how 2023 is turning out to be tough to process.

I think by Year 7 it should be more of a reload but maybe the Portal and NIL are just blowing that up and I don't fully see it. However, that might be exactly what coach was staring at on Saturday...this reality that I admittedly do not want to see.
 

I agree with most of the OP except for "Recruit" well. The Gophers have had zero recruiting dividend (as measured by stars and rankings) from their run of recent success under Fleck, and have perhaps even declined. Mostly stuck in the same rut throughout the internet recruiting ranks era.

Fleck is better at retention than most coaches the Gophers have had. We seem to lose fewer guys to portal or dumb-stuff-attrition than most schools. We've also had a few seniors stick around for an extra year vs the NFL Draft.
 

fmlizard said:
I agree with most of the OP except for "Recruit" well. The Gophers have had zero recruiting dividend (as measured by stars and rankings) from their run of recent success under Fleck, and have perhaps even declined. Mostly stuck in the same rut throughout the internet recruiting ranks era.

Fleck is better at retention than most coaches the Gophers have had. We seem to lose fewer guys to portal or dumb-stuff-attrition than most schools. We've also had a few seniors stick around for an extra year vs the NFL Draft.
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Some of those guys sticking around possibly lead to others leaving.
 

Coach Fleck tells the truth about NIL and basically College Free agency in his press conference today. IF we don't start ponying up more we will lose some of our best players and recruits. Not what any of us likes or want's to hear but it is the reason and reality of College Football in 2023. It's tough when you have never been to a conference championship game, in recent memory, are a middle of the pack to middle of the road team that doesn't get a lot of big wins at home to generate the kind of enthusiasm and effort that is needed for fundraising. We don't have any really money bags donors or people that have easy walking around money to burn. Not a great place to be in this era of College football.
 
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BilldGopher said:
I'm down but not out, however I am challenged to read the tea leaves from year-to-year to know what to expect from Fleck-coached teams.

Certainly 2019 skewed my own expectations that makes how 2023 is turning out to be tough to process.

I think by Year 7 it should be more of a reload but maybe the Portal and NIL are just blowing that up and I don't fully see it. However, that might be exactly what coach was staring at on Saturday...this reality that I admittedly do not want to see.
Click to expand...
My take is we were thin at LB and secondary and for whatever reason couldn't find the answers in the transfer portal. I had faith Rossi could do a magic trick with what we have but I think there are just too many missing pieces.

On offense we have a QB that is not as good as advertised (or maybe injured or both) and an OC who is OC'ing for the first time. There certainly were no guarantees there.

And there you have our 2023 season in a nutshell, at least in my opinion.

For next year.... We need to hit the portal hard for secondary help. Bring in a transfer QB that can compete for the starting job. Hire a proven OC.
 

Word said:
My take is we were thin at LB and secondary and for whatever reason couldn't find the answers in the transfer portal. I had faith Rossi could do a magic trick with what we have but I think there are just too many missing pieces.

On offense we have a QB that is not as good as advertised (or maybe injured or both) and an OC who is OC'ing for the first time. There certainly were no guarantees there.

And there you have our 2023 season in a nutshell, at least in my opinion.

For next year.... We need to hit the portal hard for secondary help. Bring in a transfer QB that can compete for the starting job. Hire a proven OC.
Click to expand...
Injuries at the RB position and Tyler being a bust also factor in to all this.

Going to be very interesting to see what kind of player movement we see in and out at the end of the season. Hope like heck we can retain the key pieces like Taylor and hopefully go add some quality pieces to fill in the holes....but the roster churn these days is so extreme it is hard to know what to expect.
 

Word said:
My take is we were thin at LB and secondary and for whatever reason couldn't find the answers in the transfer portal. I had faith Rossi could do a magic trick with what we have but I think there are just too many missing pieces.

On offense we have a QB that is not as good as advertised (or maybe injured or both) and an OC who is OC'ing for the first time. There certainly were no guarantees there.

And there you have our 2023 season in a nutshell, at least in my opinion.

For next year.... We need to hit the portal hard for secondary help. Bring in a transfer QB that can compete for the starting job. Hire a proven OC.
Click to expand...
I only see finding defensive help happening. I don't see him chasing any offensive talent other than WR.

Fill the holds on defense and we will be ok.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
Coach Fleck tells the truth about NIL and basically College Free agency in his press conference today. IF we don't start ponying up more we will lose some of our best players and recruits. Not what any of us likes or want's to hear but it is the reason and reality of College Football in 2023. It's tough when you have never been to a conference championship game, in recent memory, are a middle of the pack to middle of the road team that doesn't get a lot of big wins at home to generate the kind of enthusiasm and effort that is needed for fundraising. We don't have any really money bags donors or people that have easy walking around money to burn. Not a great place to be in this era of College football.
Click to expand...

Its chicken or the egg. Maybe if he put a competent team on the field that was able to compete with the worst the Big Ten has to offer, then he'd get more donations to NIL.
 



Sparlimb said:
Its chicken or the egg. Maybe if he put a competent team on the field that was able to compete with the worst the Big Ten has to offer, then he'd get more donations to NIL.
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It’s not like he hasn’t ever done that…

“More donations” is never going to keep A&M stupid money from getting someone they really want.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I'm curious about all the "system" talk.

Did the "system" mean AK was not a great QB / missed that pass to the TE in the Illinois game? That call, that pass was right there to be had.

I feel like we'd be having a lot different conversation if that and another good drive during the NW game had set this team on a better path.

And I mean the defense has hardly been a weakness until this year, is that "system" thing?
Click to expand...
He's also scrambled out of a terrible play call and gotten first downs, and stayed in a collapsing pocket until the last moment, before getting drilled, to make a completion. AK is not getting developed. He has talent and skills.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I don't think Fleck is a bad coach. But I do think that Fleck's system or his approach has limits.

in some ways, Fleck is a lot like Jerry Kill. both can come into a program, build it up and put it on a more solid footing - but they also have limitations that prevent the program from climbing into the upper echelon. with Kill, it was recruiting and a conservative offensive system. with Fleck, the recruiting is a little better, but the offense is still conservative and Fleck (IMHO) micro-manages his coordinators.

Yes, he had an 11-win season. the question is - can he do that again? I'd be willing to bet that Fleck is not going to see another double-digit win season - especially with the new 18-team B1G and no divisions.
Click to expand...
Is the recruiting better? Kill left Fleck with one hell of a group of athletes who contributed to 2019 and are playing in the NFL. Some of his recruits might not have been highly ranked, but they sure could play. He still has Campbell, Cashman, Murray, Johnson, Coughlin, Winfield in the NFL, and he had a number of other players who hit the NFL that he recruited and coached while here. The recruiting is not much better, if any.

And, need to say again, I don't want Fleck fired
 



Sparlimb said:
It’s chicken or the egg. Maybe if he put a competent team on the field that was able to compete with the worst the Big Ten has to offer, then he'd get more donations to NIL.
Click to expand...
Fleck is 29-29 in conference.

He has put a competent and competitive team on the field.

But hey don’t let that stop you from trying to rewrite history.
 

I just heard today that PJ has a better conference record than every U of M head football coach since Murray Warmath in 1971. That's over 50 years folks. This is not a college football mecca. It is what it is. Enjoy our team and have realistic expectations.
 


PMWinSTP said:
He's also scrambled out of a terrible play call and gotten first downs, and stayed in a collapsing pocket until the last moment, before getting drilled, to make a completion. AK is not getting developed. He has talent and skills.
Click to expand...
scools12 said:
Fleck is 29-29 in conference.

He has put a competent and competitive team on the field.

But hey don’t let that stop you from trying to rewrite history.
Click to expand...
Is .500 good enough for you?
 


Dakota2 said:
Is .500 good enough for you?
Click to expand...
What does that have to do with someone trying to rewrite history?

And it is way better than it has been in 50 years so yea I am good with it.
 

Jack jones said:
Would you rather your kid play for Kill or Fleck? Enough said.
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I'd honestly be ok with either, but I can almost guarantee my kid would prefer Fleck.
 

Tucker32 said:
Is the recruiting better? Kill left Fleck with one hell of a group of athletes who contributed to 2019 and are playing in the NFL. Some of his recruits might not have been highly ranked, but they sure could play. He still has Campbell, Cashman, Murray, Johnson, Coughlin, Winfield in the NFL, and he had a number of other players who hit the NFL that he recruited and coached while here. The recruiting is not much better, if any.

And, need to say again, I don't want Fleck fired
Click to expand...
Then, add Tanner Morgan and Crab who were both recruited in a Western Michigan quarter-zip.

Those guys count as PJF recruits but when you drill down to notable guys he has gone through the whole process with at Minnesota, the list ain’t great. Bateman and a few others.

At least according to the recruiting ranks the Gophers are about a 9-10th place team and are getting a result in that range. For as much as Fleck comes off as a showy salesman he’s really a younger, healthier, better looking (but maybe less effective) Jerry Kill, both in and out of games.
 

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