Trump Stands With Saudis Despite Khashoggi Killing

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
"If achieved" is correct because he hasn't done any of it. And peace in the ME? Literally laughed when I read that. That will never happen, never has and never will and the US doesn't want it, we need their wars.

I said Trump's family financials. He cares about his lasting legacy for his kids/grandkids. I do think Trump cares about the USofA, I personally he cares about himself and his family more. But so do most people so that really isn't saying much.
I don't think anyone believed those things could be achieved in 2 years? I sure didn't. What's clear is that he's working towards those goals. Now imagine if he wasn't having to fight these battles with one hand tied behind his back?

Peace in the ME may be laughable to you, but Trump has a plan & I'm hoping it works. Getting the Saudis/UAE/Egypt and others to sit at the negotiating table with the Israelis & acknowledge Israel's right to exist, was a huge first step. As you say, the US (although, I'd call it the 'deep state') doesn't want this to happen. That's why we see things like the Khashoggi killing framed in a such a way as to derail those plans. The power brokers like Iran sponsoring terrorism all over the ME. They like the wars on Libya, Syria & Yemen. They liked the more barbaric leadership of SA prior to MBS. They want ISIS all over the region. They want the Muslim Brotherhood in power in countries like Egypt. The last thing they want, is for Trump to upset their ME apple cart. They are 'the resistance'.
 

bottlebass

Main Member
I don't think anyone believed those things could be achieved in 2 years? I sure didn't. What's clear is that he's working towards those goals. Now imagine if he wasn't having to fight these battles with one hand tied behind his back?

Peace in the ME may be laughable to you, but Trump has a plan & I'm hoping it works. Getting the Saudis/UAE/Egypt and others to sit at the negotiating table with the Israelis & acknowledge Israel's right to exist, was a huge first step. As you say, the US (although, I'd call it the 'deep state') doesn't want this to happen. That's why we see things like the Khashoggi killing framed in a such a way as to derail those plans. The power brokers like Iran sponsoring terrorism all over the ME. They like the wars on Libya, Syria & Yemen. They liked the more barbaric leadership of SA prior to MBS. They want ISIS all over the region. They want the Muslim Brotherhood in power in countries like Egypt. The last thing they want, is for Trump to upset their ME apple cart. They are 'the resistance'.
They are not worried about Trump upsetting the ME for them. I can guarantee that.
 

bottlebass

Main Member
How so? You claim to know all the details of what happened with Khashoggi. I absolutely don't know. That means there's "no help for me"?
There is a recording of his death, there are no secrets or conspiracies happening here. The truth is readily available. You and I are on the same side that Trump can't really be criticized for what he's doing here, every president has done the same with SA and any president would be doing the current thing even Hilldawg. It's OK for you to admit the truth here and say just once Trump isn't telling the whole truth. Trump won't execute you and you can do this without stopping your unwavering support.
 

bottlebass

Main Member
Have you been watching the news? Ending the Iran deal? MBS taking over in SA? Khashoggi? They're VERY worried about it.
Ending the Iran deal further destabilizes the region and pushes us closer to war with Iran, it's exactly what the deep state or MIC or whatever you want to call them wants.
 

bigticket1

Active member
Preposterous statement of the year nominee.
Why ? It's the cold hard truth. One-way decorum. Question the President in a way he deems improper and you get shamed and/or banned. Yet the President can go on Twitter and s*it on military leaders, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, politicians he doesn't like or anyone else who he gets a wild hair crossways with. And it's just "the President being the President."
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
There is a recording of his death, there are no secrets or conspiracies happening here. The truth is readily available. You and I are on the same side that Trump can't really be criticized for what he's doing here, every president has done the same with SA and any president would be doing the current thing even Hilldawg. It's OK for you to admit the truth here and say just once Trump isn't telling the whole truth. Trump won't execute you and you can do this without stopping your unwavering support.
I'm skeptical of MSM narratives. I'm skeptical of the CIA. I'm skeptical of Turkey. I'm skeptical of the old guard, Saudi faction that wants to take back power from MBS.

MBS may have personally ordered the killing? That said, remember this is Turkish state media reporting, that they have unnamed sources in the CIA, telling them this.

Erdogan in Turkey rounded up every journalist who criticized him and either murdered them or has them in prison as we speak. Then he took control of all TV news outlets and newspapers. Erdogan (who's Muslim Brotherhood) believes Turkey, not SA, should be the main power in the ME. Erdogan desperately wants to damage SA & MBS. Why are the same people who're now clamoring for us to cut ties with SA over their treatment of a "journalist" (I use the term loosely in Khashoggi's case), completely ignoring what Erdogan in Turkey has done/is doing to journalists? In Turkey's case, it's dozens of journalists. Why no calls to end ties to Turkey? It makes you wonder doesn't it? Who's pushing this Khashoggi thing, while poo-pooing any criticism of Turkey.

John Brennan, former Director of the CIA is a huge supporter of Iran, the Muslim Brotherhood & the former leadership of SA. He's helped all the most radical elements in the ME to take power and wreak havoc. Any rational person, would ask themselves "why"? And, how could that be affecting the CIA's handling of the Khashoggi murder?

Lastly, remember that there was essentially a civil war in Saudi Arabia, with the old guard...the more hard-line Muslims, losing power to the MBS faction, who are reformers by ME standards. They absolutely do not want peace with Israel or any sport of social reform. I found it telling that prior to five hours ago, when Erdogan reported it was MBS, that no one in the media asked the obvious question: "Could this have been a rogue faction within SA, doing this for their own agenda or to damage the reform MBS is trying to move forward?". Maybe it's not, but you would think someone in the media, would have at least considered this very possible angle. Yet no one did. That tells me they weren't reporting the news at all, but rather pushing a crafted narrative.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Ending the Iran deal further destabilizes the region and pushes us closer to war with Iran, it's exactly what the deep state or MIC or whatever you want to call them wants.
On the contrary, the deep state wants Iran propped up and that's quite obvious. Look at the people criticizing the ending of the Iran deal. That's all you need to understand that you're on the right track. Ending the Iran deal, neuters Iran, so that they're incapable of war or funding terrorism throughout the region. That's why all the MIC/deep staters want Iran well funded and well armed. To keep the wars and strife going.
 

bottlebass

Main Member
Lastly, remember that there was essentially a civil war in Saudi Arabia, with the old guard...the more hard-line Muslims, losing power to the MBS faction, who are reformers by ME standards. They absolutely do not want peace with Israel or any sport of social reform. I found it telling that prior to five hours ago, when Erdogan reported it was MBS, that no one in the media asked the obvious question: "Could this have been a rogue faction within SA, doing this for their own agenda or to damage the reform MBS is trying to move forward?". Maybe it's not, but you would think someone in the media, would have at least considered this very possible angle. Yet no one did. That tells me they weren't reporting the news at all, but rather pushing a crafted narrative.
This was asked weeks ago. The media sources I use all asked this very thing. YOu either weren't paying attention or are deliberately lying right now.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
This was asked weeks ago. The media sources I use all asked this very thing. YOu either weren't paying attention or are deliberately lying right now.
Can you link me a few of those, because I haven't heard that asked at all. Everything I was seeing had MBS & SA guilty before the dust even settled. Furthermore, any questioning of the Turkish/CIA narrative was proof positive that you supported the killing of journalists & the silencing the media.
 

bottlebass

Main Member
Can you link me a few of those, because I haven't heard that asked at all. Everything I was seeing had MBS & SA guilty before the dust even settled. Furthermore, any questioning of the Turkish/CIA narrative was proof positive that you supported the killing of journalists & the silencing the media.
No, you always have your head buried in conspiracy crap news. When the story broke every story I read had rogue agents within SA as a possibility. Honestly early on most of them didn't even think the prince had anything to do with it. It took a long time for anybody to definitively say they thought the prince had something to do with it. First it was rogue agents, then it was the princes guys doing it on their own without the prince knowing because they thought it would please him and they wouldn't get in trouble, then the prince was mentioned. If you followed the story at all you would know this.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
No, you always have your head buried in conspiracy crap news. When the story broke every story I read had rogue agents within SA as a possibility. Honestly early on most of them didn't even think the prince had anything to do with it. It took a long time for anybody to definitively say they thought the prince had something to do with it. First it was rogue agents, then it was the princes guys doing it on their own without the prince knowing because they thought it would please him and they wouldn't get in trouble, then the prince was mentioned. If you followed the story at all you would know this.
You have no idea what news my head is buried in. I recall on October 15th, when Trump said MBS had denied any knowledge of the killing & suggested that "rogue elements" in the Saudi govt may have been responsible, that Trump was widely mocked & ridiculed by the left for suggesting such a thing. In fact, a quick google search turns up pages of articles slamming Trump for even considering the possibility. Strangely, since these articles were widespread according to you, I can't find a single article suggesting this may have been the case, prior to Trump saying as much.
 

bottlebass

Main Member
You have no idea what news my head is buried in. I recall on October 15th, when Trump said MBS had denied any knowledge of the killing & suggested that "rogue elements" in the Saudi govt may have been responsible, that Trump was widely mocked & ridiculed by the left for suggesting such a thing. In fact, a quick google search turns up pages of articles slamming Trump for even considering the possibility. Strangely, since these articles were widespread according to you, I can't find a single article suggesting this may have been the case, prior to Trump saying as much.
Easy google search for early CNN articles https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/21/middleeast/jamal-khashoggi-international-pressure-builds-intl/index.html

Seriously if you followed the news when this was breaking you would know everything I said was 100% true. It took a while for the evidence to lead back to the prince. The first days the prince was not mentioned and if he was it was in a questioning manner because even common sense back then would lead you to the prince if SA was involved.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Easy google search for early CNN articles https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/21/middleeast/jamal-khashoggi-international-pressure-builds-intl/index.html

Seriously if you followed the news when this was breaking you would know everything I said was 100% true. It took a while for the evidence to lead back to the prince. The first days the prince was not mentioned and if he was it was in a questioning manner because even common sense back then would lead you to the prince if SA was involved.
I'm guessing you didn't read the article you linked? It's from Oct 22nd, a week after Trump was roundly spanked for suggesting it was rogue elements within the Saudi Govt. This article you chose to prove your point, is from 3 weeks after the incident happened, so it doesn't prove your point at all. Worse yet, there's no suggestion by the writer that this could have been rogue elements of the Saudi Govt. In fact, it's filled with suggestions that the Saudi story is false.
 

bottlebass

Main Member
I'm guessing you didn't read the article you linked? It's from Oct 22nd, a week after Trump was roundly spanked for suggesting it was rogue elements within the Saudi Govt. This article you chose to prove your point, is from 3 weeks after the incident happened, so it doesn't prove your point at all. Worse yet, there's no suggestion by the writer that this could have been rogue elements of the Saudi Govt. In fact, it's filled with suggestions that the Saudi story is false.
" part of a rogue operatio"

"The individuals who did this did this outside the scope of their authority,"

I read parts of the article, enough to see these and know it was after Trump criticized the SA explanation as he should of because it was crap. In fact since this article is so far after the instance it proves my point exceptionally well even better than I coul dhave hoped because even weeks after the killing news agencies were still reporting it could be rogue agents and the prince had no knowledge of it. You obviously didn't read the article.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
" part of a rogue operatio"

"The individuals who did this did this outside the scope of their authority,"

I read parts of the article, enough to see these and know it was after Trump criticized the SA explanation as he should of because it was crap. In fact since this article is so far after the instance it proves my point exceptionally well even better than I coul dhave hoped because even weeks after the killing news agencies were still reporting it could be rogue agents and the prince had no knowledge of it. You obviously didn't read the article.
That's CNN quoting a Saudi official. That was not CNN suggesting it may have been a rogue operation. Not the same thing at all. The article quotes the Saudi position , then goes on to list "An increasingly vocal chorus of international voices have to come to question Saudi Arabia's story." Including Turkey, France, Canada, The UK & Germany who all believe any mention of rogue operators is a lie. The purpose of the story was to cast doubt on the idea of rogue operators, not to suggest it may have been rogue operators.
 

bottlebass

Main Member
That's CNN quoting a Saudi official. That was not CNN suggesting it may have been a rogue operation. Not the same thing at all. The article quotes the Saudi position , then goes on to list "An increasingly vocal chorus of international voices have to come to question Saudi Arabia's story." Including Turkey, France, Canada, The UK & Germany who all believe any mention of rogue operators is a lie. The purpose of the story was to cast doubt on the idea of rogue operators, not to suggest it may have been rogue operators.
Does the article state it was the prince like you claimed? The article was weeks after the incident and still not claiming what you stated. Do your own search, read the original articles. The truth comes out now, but no one knew early on.

This whole argument is pointless, in the end you and I are on the same side. It doesn't matter if the prince would have executed this guy himself in public, the US would still stand by him no matter what.
 

howeda7

Active member
He is not telling the cold hard truth. The cold hard truth is "yes the prince ordered this death but I (trump) do not care because we need SA to attack Iran soon, we need them to help control all the muslims in the ME we don't like, and my family needs them for our business". That is not what Trump said but is the cold hard truth.
+1. The difference is that Trump is likely doing it for his personal benefit not the country's. You can argue it doesn't matter if the outcome is the same. But I'd say you're wrong.
 

howeda7

Active member
The insidious method of the right wing at this time is to do outrageous things and challenge anyone to call them out for how outrageous they are. Describing things accurately is not flame throwing. The Right controls the "dialogue" through incendiary messaging combined with shaming of anyone who matches their tone in reply.

Everyone here knows what you and diehard are doing, CRG. It's a form of psychological warfare, and it includes messages directed to individuals about how they've "changed." Like it or not, we're smart and strong enough to know that we haven't changed, and we don't care what anyone - especially you - claim to think of us. What's changed is the country and the world under this unfortunate criminal regime, and we're not afraid or shy about shining a light on it. Please stop trying to shame people into withholding their opinions by pretending to be concerned friends or detached observers. We all know it's a bunch of bullsh!t.
Well said.
 

diehard

Active member
Which dialect? Which variety of which dialect? Tell me what you heard on the tape. There are times yo are really focused on being pointless.
 
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bottlebass

Main Member
Actually I think the Iranians I work with would be better translators. We use to have a Saudi women who worked here but not anymore, shucks.
 
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