The Big 10 isn't what it used to be.

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LonelyIowaGopher

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In the four decades prior to 1970, Big 10 football teams won nineteen national championships. In the four decades since then, they've won four.
In other words, the SEC has won more national football championships in the last five years than Big 10 teams have won since 1970.
America's population in general has shifted to the South and West over the last fifty years and more. Also, the biggest pools of football talent--by far--are in the South and in California (where something like ten percent of the entire U.S. population lives).
Finally, in its glory days Big 10 Conference football teams recurited African-American athletes that were not allowed to attend most southern schools. Times have changed and it's unlikely that the Big Ten Conference will produce more than one national championship football team per decade in the forseeable future.
 

This is part of the reason the NCAA needs to come up with better standards for recruiting or the Big Ten needs to start using SEC and southern practices.
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
In the four decades prior to 1970, Big 10 football teams won nineteen national championships. In the four decades since then, they've won four.
In other words, the SEC has won more national football championships in the last five years than Big 10 teams have won since 1970.
America's population in general has shifted to the South and West over the last fifty years and more. Also, the biggest pools of football talent--by far--are in the South and in California (where something like ten percent of the entire U.S. population lives).
Finally, in its glory days Big 10 Conference football teams recurited African-American athletes that were not allowed to attend most southern schools. Times have changed and it's unlikely that the Big Ten Conference will produce more than one national championship football team per decade in the forseeable future.[/QUOTE]

Bingo.
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If by chance the NCAA goes to a playoff system the Big Ten and Big East would have the best home field advantage in the country.

+1 on the African American athletes post.
 

Great point about home field advantage.

That was a great point made about home field advantage in the Bowl games. Big 10 teams always used to play a road game in the Rose Bowl. Nebraska lost more than one national championship when they had to play what were essentially title games in the South.
With regard to a playoff system, it's incredible that the ONLY area in amateur football (high school or college) that doesn't have a playoff system is the NCAA's Division I level. Like all of you, I've heard many excuses for this. But the only one that makes logical sense to me is that University presidents don't want a playoff system in football. Too many university presidents have lost their jobs over football programs and apparently school administrators feel that the added pressure it would put on programs would ultimately lead to bad results--Cam Newton times ten.
 


1970 is about right but not for the those reasons, during the 1970's some people thought football was to rough and started advocating soccer for younger kids. With the push for soccer came the decline of youth football especially in the North and Midwest. I live in the Highland/Macgroveland area of St Paul and know of no youth football teams in the area. Is it any wonder that St Paul produces very few D1 football prospects?
 

nsmike said:
1970 is about right but not for the those reasons, during the 1970's some people thought football was to rough and started advocating soccer for younger kids. With the push for soccer came the decline of youth football especially in the North and Midwest. I live in the Highland/Macgroveland area of St Paul and know of no youth football teams in the area. Is it any wonder that St Paul produces very few D1 football prospects?
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This of course would make sense if there were tons of D1 soccer recruits coming out of Minnesota. That isn't the case.

What you are seeing in the city has more to do with changing demographics.
 

Just cycling through - similar to the Ivies not adopting BT recruiting practices back in the early 1900's. NBDeal
 

Cycling through?

A forty year cycle? And it was a big deal for the Ivies you mentioned at the turn of the century. I don't think they quite made it back to the big time in college football in a mere one hundred years.
 



MaxyJR1 said:
This is part of the reason the NCAA needs to come up with better standards for recruiting or the Big Ten needs to start using SEC and southern practices.
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Change the rules because we can't compete? That sounds like sour grapes.

Besides nobody has more secondary violations than Ohio State. The Big Ten is almost assuredly trying just as much under the table nonsense as the SEC, they're just home to better programs.
 

Khaliq said:
Change the rules because we can't compete? That sounds like sour grapes.

Besides nobody has more secondary violations than Ohio State. The Big Ten is almost assuredly trying just as much under the table nonsense as the SEC, they're just home to better programs.
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Ever hear of "oversigning"? Check it out (along with head to head matchup results between the Big 10 and SEC over the past 10 or so years).
 

I am familiar with oversigning, yes. And are you trying to make the point that the Big Ten is a better conference than the SEC?
 

Say what you want, but the decline of youth football in the Northeast and Midwes,t has a lot to do with the decline of the B10. It is the primary reason why the public schools in Minneapolis and St Paul rarely produce D1 prospects. I visit family down South and there's an abundace of youth football leagues not so here.
 



LonelyIowaGopher said:
In the four decades prior to 1970, Big 10 football teams won nineteen national championships. In the four decades since then, they've won four.
In other words, the SEC has won more national football championships in the last five years than Big 10 teams have won since 1970.
America's population in general has shifted to the South and West over the last fifty years and more. Also, the biggest pools of football talent--by far--are in the South and in California (where something like ten percent of the entire U.S. population lives).
Finally, in its glory days Big 10 Conference football teams recurited African-American athletes that were not allowed to attend most southern schools. Times have changed and it's unlikely that the Big Ten Conference will produce more than one national championship football team per decade in the forseeable future.
Click to expand...

In that period Nebraska has won 4, Penn State 2, Ohio State 1, & Michigan 1. So it's not quite as bad as you state - but not as good as it used to be.
 

The Big 10 isn't what it used to be.

That is correct, effective next year it is 12 teams.
 

4four4 said:
If by chance the NCAA goes to a playoff system the Big Ten and Big East would have the best home field advantage in the country.

+1 on the African American athletes post.
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Truer words have never been spoken!
 

Regarding youth football in Minneapolis and St. Paul, in Minneapolis youth football is left up to the Park Board. I think this is a mistake and should be brought in to the elementary and junior high shools in the city. I don't know how someone would go about changing this setup.

I am not sure what St. Paul does, but I suspect that the situation is the same there.
 

I think the reasons for southern dominance of late is simple. The hotbed of southern athletes don't want to come north. If your a northern blue-chipper why wouldn't you want to go south? Also, It used to be that no team was on T.V. except for Notre Dame and Big Ten teams, mostly Michigan. IF you wanted to be on a national stage you had to head north. Now, every team from Boise State to Tulsa are a national telecast every single saturday. Athletes no longer have to come north for national exposure.
 

If we're going to count Nebraska...

as a "Big 10 team" with its four national championships when it played in another league, I suppose I'd better add the University of Chicago's two national championships to the conference's totals. The Maroons were among the founders of the Big 10 and were in the conference from 1895 to 1946. Their national championships came in 1905 and 1913, long after Ivy League schools (as someone has thoughtfully pointed out here) stopped recruiting in the same manner as the Big 10 still does.
Also, Jay Berwanger of the Maroons won the first Heisman trophy awarded in 1935. That's another recent feather in the cap of the Big 10 when it comes to football.
 

Steel Belt becoming Rust Belt
and
African Americans getting into southern "white" schools

are by far the two biggest reasons that the Big ten was more successful 30+ years ago. This whole post is kind of landed on the moon material.
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
In the four decades prior to 1970, Big 10 football teams won nineteen national championships. In the four decades since then, they've won four.
In other words, the SEC has won more national football championships in the last five years than Big 10 teams have won since 1970.
America's population in general has shifted to the South and West over the last fifty years and more. Also, the biggest pools of football talent--by far--are in the South and in California (where something like ten percent of the entire U.S. population lives).
Finally, in its glory days Big 10 Conference football teams recurited African-American athletes that were not allowed to attend most southern schools. Times have changed and it's unlikely that the Big Ten Conference will produce more than one national championship football team per decade in the forseeable future.
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Good topic. I don't think there is any one factor for the shift; and clearly there is a shift. More teams, better athletes, changing game, speed catching up to sheer power as the competitive advantage, desegregation in the south, and etc.

We should expect dimiinshing returns on program improvements while the rest of the country caught up. It's the natural order of things. Eventually, the success of those other confenerences will catch up to them too.

However, I would like to add more to the comparability factor. The Big Ten of 2011 AP championships since 1970 is 10 (PS and NE adjustments). Also, if you add the smaller services (coaches,), the number goes up to 23. I think this suggests that it may not be as big of an acheivement gap as we are still clearly competitive. Heck 10/40 ain't bad when you consider 12/119 BCS schools.
 

GopherTwin said:
Regarding youth football in Minneapolis and St. Paul, in Minneapolis youth football is left up to the Park Board. I think this is a mistake and should be brought in to the elementary and junior high shools in the city. I don't know how someone would go about changing this setup.

I am not sure what St. Paul does, but I suspect that the situation is the same there.
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There is not Jr High tackle football in St. Paul. In fact, when I went to Highland Park Jr High in the mid 70s, we played flag football.
 

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