STrib: MIAC rivals plot ouster of St. Thomas

BleedGopher

Administrator
per STrib:

There have been complaints from selected MIAC rivals for nearly a decade over the enrollment gap and the athletic success that considerably favors St. Thomas. Now those complaints have turned into a full-fledged effort to have St. Thomas expelled from the league.

There will be a meeting of the 13 school presidents on April 18 to decide whether to move forward with this action, according to sources close to the situation. The school presidents would then take a final vote in late May, with nine votes required to expel St. Thomas. If it passes, the Tommies could be forced out after the 2020-21 school year.

First, however, the MIAC schools must vote to change the league bylaws. Currently, the lone reason for expelling a school is unethical or illegal conduct, and there are no such claims against St. Thomas. The anticipated strategy for the anti-St. Thomas votes would be to add a clause — perhaps a limit on enrollment — and then declare St. Thomas as not fitting the league’s profile, two sources said.

St. Thomas has 6,200 undergraduates, double the number of St. Olaf, the next-largest of the nine football-playing schools.

http://www.startribune.com/miac-rivals-plot-ouster-of-st-thomas/508145182/

Go Gophers!!
 

fmlizard

Active member
Hmm. Does overall student enrollment really correlate that strongly with small private college athletic success? It's not like they are just pulling kids from the neighborhood to play.
 

Livingat45north

Active member
Hmm. Does overall student enrollment really correlate that strongly with small private college athletic success? It's not like they are just pulling kids from the neighborhood to play.
They're three times the size of most MIAC schools, so yes, that does give them an advantage in terms of paying for facilities and such. St. Thomas is becoming too dominant in the league, size is one of the reasons. It really is time for them to move up to another conference. It'll be interesting to see how the vote goes.
 

SJUgopher

Active member
Hmm. Does overall student enrollment really correlate that strongly with small private college athletic success? It's not like they are just pulling kids from the neighborhood to play.
Cpl things, USTd is not a liberal arts school. And not all MIAC members are, but all are private. Liberal arts colleges generally have enrollments around 2,000. Even most of the DI schools fall in this range.

My guess is that since football generates minimal revenue for most schools, except SJU, USTd, and wherever SJU plays at, their primary source of funds are through tuition and student fees. Higher enrollment = higher budget.

But the MIAC is digging its own grave if they kick out USTd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

WoodburyTim

Active member
If this comes to pass, I wonder what St. Thomas's options are? There are no other local D-III conferences that will take them. Make the investment and move up?
 

Gophers_4life

Active member
UST is the opposite of a liberal arts college.

It’s an urban, comprehensive university. It’s the only place in the metro that you can get an engineering degree, besides the U.


It’s pathetic that they, along with the WIAC schools, have been allowed to stay in DIII.

Kick them out of the division altogether! They would fit in VERY well in the North Central in DII. Augustana is leaving for DI anyway. They can take that spot.
 

STPGopher

Active member
Cpl things, USTd is not a liberal arts school. And not all MIAC members are, but all are private. Liberal arts colleges generally have enrollments around 2,000. Even most of the DI schools fall in this range.

My guess is that since football generates minimal revenue for most schools, except SJU, USTd, and wherever SJU plays at, their primary source of funds are through tuition and student fees. Higher enrollment = higher budget.

But the MIAC is digging its own grave if they kick out USTd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
St. Olaf should be very careful. Slippery slope.
 
The big difference is money. At the risk of igniting a religious war - St. Thomas, a Catholic institution, has been VERY successful with fund-raising. They have more money than another other MIAC school. In turn, the money has allowed them to develop facilities that dwarf all other conference schools. St. Thomas literally has better facilities than some DII schools.

and it all becomes a vicious circle - more money +better facilities + athletic success = success in recruiting. St. Thomas gets the best recruits, which leads to more success, more fund-raising, more money, and better facilities. Which leads to more success in recruiting.

Hey - St. Thomas has been very successful. But they are in a vastly different situation than any other conference school. They have the money and facilities to go DII, but up to now, they have been content to stay in D3 and beat the bleep out of the lower half of the conference. Now, that lower half of the conference is getting fed up, and they may be ready to try a power play to push St. Thomas out of the conference, and put them in a situation where they almost have to go DII - because their options in D3 would be very limited. I suppose they could go independent, but that would lead to some wacky travel situations.
 

Gophers_4life

Active member
I can’t possibly see how they would not go into the NCC. They’d probably compete right away in most sports.

The REAL interesting question would be their hockey teams. There is no DII in hockey, but I’m not sure if there is a provision to allow DII schools with varsity hockey to play down in DIII. The current NCC schools with varsity hockey are all the ones we know playing big time college hockey.


Would they have the guts to take on moving to DI?? Football could possibly play some games at Allianz. Hockey to the WCHA. Football to Pioneer? Would be quite an investment, regardless.
 
Last edited:

Word

Eats difficult conversations
I can’t possibly see how they would not go into the NCC. They’d probably compete right away in most sports.

The REAL interesting question would be their hockey teams. There is no DII in hockey, but I’m not sure if there is a provision to allow DII schools with varsity hockey to play down in DIII. The current NCC schools with varsity hockey are all the ones we know playing big time college hockey.


Would they have the guts to take on moving to DI?? Football could possibly play some games at Allianz. Hockey to the WCHA. Football to Pioneer? Would be quite an investment, regardless.
Pretty sure you can't play down a level in anything, including hockey. So they would either need to cut hockey or play D1 if that is correct.
 

highwayman

Knows Less Than Coaching Staff
Sour grapes. This has nothing to do with but jealousy and lack of forethought or innovation. I invite the other schools to drop all athletics and leave the MIAC. That will save them a ton of money and they can focus solely on academics and intramural sports.
 

50PoundHead

Active member
If they kick St. Thomas out, how long will be before they kick out St. John's too?
St. Thomas has lapped the MIAC in a number of areas. They were the first of the MIAC schools to put together a wide variety of post-graduate degrees and their fund-raising across-the-board is really impressive. I went to Augsburg in the 1970s and all the MIAC schools were comparable in a lot of ways academically and athletically in that era. I think each of the schools still puts out a good (not necessarily great) product academically (and St. Thomas has more programs), but St. Thomas has really pulled away on the athletic front.

In or out doesn't matter much to me.
 

Some guy

Active member
If this comes to pass, I wonder what St. Thomas's options are? There are no other local D-III conferences that will take them. Make the investment and move up?
St Thomas isn’t going d2

It would be a huge financial commitment for literal no financial upside
 
St Thomas isn’t going d2

It would be a huge financial commitment for literal no financial upside
Yep. There is nothing to be gained on their end by competing with UMD and Mankato State....beating the Johnnies and....well, the Johnnies is their raison d’etre.

If they were booted from the MIAC, the MIAC would lose its deepest pocketed member and the Tommies would be faced with some interesting choices. I did my undergrad there in the early 90’s and even then there were rumblings about going D1 even though their admin never encouraged the conversation. Interesting times, but a mistake by the other MIAC schools if they follow thru.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

oak_street1981

Active member
Yep. There is nothing to be gained on their end by competing with UMD and Mankato State....beating the Johnnies and....well, the Johnnies is their raison d’etre.

If they were booted from the MIAC, the MIAC would lose its deepest pocketed member and the Tommies would be faced with some interesting choices. I did my undergrad there in the early 90’s and even then there were rumblings about going D1 even though their admin never encouraged the conversation. Interesting times, but a mistake by the other MIAC schools if they follow thru
.

I looked this up a couple of years ago and do not have the energy to do it again, but I am pretty sure MAC, and Carleton have massive endowments relative to lowly St. Thomas. I think even Gustavus might have deeper pockets relative to St. Thomas.

I realize endowments do not directly relate to spending on athletics, but St. Thomas is not wealthy my any means. The St. Thomas on campus facilities were bare bones compared to even St. Olaf (much better fieldhouse, Gym, and campus plant) and the long overdue UST improvement finally happened just in the last ten years.

St. John's kicked the hell out of the MIAC in football for 40 years before Caruso finally awakened St. Thomas. Concordia (the real one up by Fargo)used to challenge them a bit, yet not one tried to kick out SJU and their 150 man roster, as SJ steamrolled the lower half by the MIAC by 50 plus points for years. Their basketball teams were pretty good as well, holding their own vs. St. Cloud and other DII teams over the years, but there was no push to kick out St. Johns.

If the MIAC pulls this off, there will be some blow back. St Thomas is great in sports because they hire good coaches and recruit lots of students that actually like playing sports, and are decent enough at it. Some of their better football players probably are not even recruited, they just show up and happen to have talent.
 
Last edited:

Livingat45north

Active member
Yep. There is nothing to be gained on their end by competing with UMD and Mankato State....beating the Johnnies and....well, the Johnnies is their raison d’etre.

If they were booted from the MIAC, the MIAC would lose its deepest pocketed member and the Tommies would be faced with some interesting choices. I did my undergrad there in the early 90’s and even then there were rumblings about going D1 even though their admin never encouraged the conversation. Interesting times, but a mistake by the other MIAC schools if they follow thru
.

I looked this up a couple of years ago and do not have the energy to do it again, but I am pretty sure MAC, and Carleton have massive endowments relative to lowly St. Thomas. I think even Gustavus might have deeper pockets relative to St. Thomas.

I realize endowments do not directly relate to spending on athletics, but St. Thomas is not wealthy my any means. The St. Thomas on campus facilities were bare bones compared to even St. Olaf (much better fieldhouse, Gym, and campus plant) and the long overdue UST improvement finally happened just in the last ten years.

St. John's kicked the hell out of the MIAC in football for 40 years before Caruso finally awakened St. Thomas. Concordia used to challenge them a bit, yet not one tried to kick out SJU and their 150 man roster, as SJ steamrolled the lower half by the MIAC by 50 plus points for years. Their basketball teams were pretty good as well, holding their own vs. St. Cloud and other DII teams over the years, but there was no push to kick out St. Johns.

If the MIAC pulls this off, there will be some blow back.
St. Thomas has an endowment of a bit over $400M, Carleton's is about $850M, St. Olaf is around $500M and Mac is about $700M. St. Olaf has some really nice facilities now, including a new on-campus hockey arena. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.
 

Latest profile posts

Top