Sid Hartman: Patience, not firing, needed by Gophers

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jovs said:
Maturi went with someone with no Head Coaching or Coordinator experience. He had no idea on what his preferred offensive and defensive schemes were. He had to learn on the job. Is that really his fault, I would have to say no. For that reason I am starting to think you have to give him another year and find out if some consistency will turn into wins. It probably won't be any worse than a coaching change, and who knows, it might turn out.

The administrations problem is that if attendance takes a nose dive they are in deep with the new stadium.
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Are you kidding me? I don't want to be a bully, but that is a lame excuse. Your not the only person on these boards who share that opinion.

I understand that everyone is always looking to get that bigger and better job, but if you are completely under qualified you have no business applying for the position! I guess if you want to defend Brewster you can blame Maturi for hiring an obvious under qualified candidate.

By Brewster applying for a job he had no business getting he is doing a disservice to his players, his coordinators (No matter how often they change) the administration and the fans. This is not a high school job where learning on the fly is acceptable. (To take a rant from Coach Dan Hawkins) It's Division 1 football, its the Big 10!
 

jovs said:
Maturi went with someone with no Head Coaching or Coordinator experience. He had no idea on what his preferred offensive and defensive schemes were. He had to learn on the job. Is that really his fault, I would have to say no. For that reason I am starting to think you have to give him another year and find out if some consistency will turn into wins. It probably won't be any worse than a coaching change, and who knows, it might turn out.

The administrations problem is that if attendance takes a nose dive they are in deep with the new stadium.
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Preposterous post of the day! Here's the plan you hire a coach who can coach and recruiting coordinator who can recruit. Brewster is one of the worst hires in the history of college football and you want to give him another year because Maturi made a mistake! I'm sorry but four years is enough time to prove you cannot coach! Time to cut bait and go in another direction.
 

The ultimate question is:

Given time, do you think Brewster can have a successful prgram at Minnesota? If the AD thinks yes, then he deserves more time.

If the answer is no, then can him and move on.

The jury is still out but no Big Ten team should lose to a lousy FCS school at home (South Dakota State has lost to Central Florida by 31 and NDSU by 22). They need a real turn around or he is gone.
 

tjgopher said:
Sid's premise that firing coaches has been our problem is flawed. Look, schools fire coaches until they find the right one. They just do. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't fire Brewster, but to not fire him because of Sid's line of thinking is stupid. He used Wis and IA as examples. Let's analyze:

Wisconsin "pre-Alvarez" went through five mediocre to terrible coaches in 22 years (all but one had a sub-.500 record) until they found the right guy in Barry:

3 yrs - John Coatta (1967-1969 -- 3-26-1 record)
8 yrs - John Jardine (1970-77 -- 37-47-3 record)
8 yrs - Dave McClain (1978-85 -- 46-42-3 record)
1 yrs - Jim Hilles (1986 -- 3-9 record)
3 yrs - Don Morton (1987-89 -- 6-27 record)
16 yrs - Barry Alvarez (1990-2005 -- 118-73-4 record)

Iowa "pre-Fry" went through four terrible coaches in 18 years (all had sub-.400 records) until they found the right guy in Fry:

5 yrs - Jerry Burns (1961-65 -- 16-27-2 record)
5 yrs - Ray Nagel (1966-70 -- 16-32-1 record)
3 yrs - Frank Lauterbur (1971-73 -- 4-28-1 record)
5 yrs - Bob Cummings (1974-78 -- 18-37 record)
18 yrs - Hayden Fry (1979-98 -- 143-89-6)

By Sid's line of thinking, Wisconsin should have never let go of Don Morton and Iowa should have let Bob Cummings continue.

Minnesota has been through a lot of coaches. It is just taking us longer to find our guy than it took Wisconsin and Iowa to find their guy.
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Exactly. The question we should be asking ourselves iis f it would have been smart for Wisconsin to keep Don Morton, or for Iowa to keep Bob Cummings. Those are the analagous coaches to Brewster.

Obviously not. You try guys out. If they succeed you keep them, if not, you try again. Sid's example actually indicates we should definitely fire Brewster.
 


Am I the only one who actually believes that Tim Brewster ( Applicant at interview) presented and sold his idea for changing the Football Offensive strategy from ' running / zone blocking ' to the ' Spread' offense which Texas and Vince Young displayed. I find it difficult to believe that Maturi did not ask him what style he wanted to deploy.
My problem with that was that they did not have the personnel to successfully change that. I am suspicious that maybe Maturi was wooed into that philosophy too at the time of the hiring.
Perhaps I am wrong---- my suspicious nature I guess.
 

tbebell said:
If you read interviews where Ferentz talks about his plan for success, it is the opposite of Brewster's approach. Ferentz repeats over and over that you develop your philosophy over the years of being mentored by other coaches. You must believe in that philosophy and stick to it. You must take your time in selecting assistants to make sure they are board withe the philosophy, and will that leads to continuity in the program.

Iowa has the same same OC and DC from day one of Ferentz's staff, and I can only think of six position coach changes going on twelve years. (Flaherty and Chuck Long left after year one, Bielema left after year three, Philbin left after year four, Aikins after about year eight, and Jackson retired a couple of years ago)

Ferentz will admit that about half way through his second year, he was starting to have his doubts, but he was going to stick with his plan, and we started to have some success the second half of the that second season.

We are no different than any other fan base, though. During our "down years" (if our big down year is 6-7 after a close bowl loss to defending national champion, TX, that ain't so bad), we had fans saying we needed new a new OC and DC, and maybe Ferentz was too inflexible, yada, yada, yada.

Anyway, my point is Sid's analogy is a bad one, and you guys need a new coach. One who brings something beyond just raw enthusiasm to the table.
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+1. The big problem with Brewster isn't the "die on your feet, live on your knees" dichotomy. He's tried to keep moving around to avoid the issue to some extent.

I also agree with bayfield that the supposedly better kids haven't been playing to their high school press clippings.
 

Using Ferentz and Alvarez as examples show Brew is not capable of coaching. He has been here 3 years and has changed his philososphy on offense how many times??? He has no idead what he needs to do to create a winning team. He changed his mind about the offense because he does not have enough faith in himself.

Has anyone seen any improvement? With Ferentz and Alvarez, you saw improvement, discipline and motivation. You saw a leader from the team, someone who could stand up on the offensive and defensive side of the ball. Brew has not come close to any of this.
 

Uffda said:
Am I the only one who actually believes that Tim Brewster ( Applicant at interview) presented and sold his idea for changing the Football Offensive strategy from ' running / zone blocking ' to the ' Spread' offense which Texas and Vince Young displayed. I find it difficult to believe that Maturi did not ask him what style he wanted to deploy.
My problem with that was that they did not have the personnel to successfully change that. I am suspicious that maybe Maturi was wooed into that philosophy too at the time of the hiring.
Perhaps I am wrong---- my suspicious nature I guess.
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Our currently QB was made to run the spread but Brewster for some unknown reason went away from the spread without changing the QB.
 



Uffda said:
Am I the only one who actually believes that Tim Brewster ( Applicant at interview) presented and sold his idea for changing the Football Offensive strategy from ' running / zone blocking ' to the ' Spread' offense which Texas and Vince Young displayed. I find it difficult to believe that Maturi did not ask him what style he wanted to deploy.
My problem with that was that they did not have the personnel to successfully change that. I am suspicious that maybe Maturi was wooed into that philosophy too at the time of the hiring.
Perhaps I am wrong---- my suspicious nature I guess.
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I'm sure Brewster had to have laid out some sort of plan for logistics purposes with Maturi, but you know as well as I do that Brewster has no substance

We could rally off dozens of quotes from Brewster that had little to no truth behind them. He simply lies about the talent on the roster, so for me its not hard to believe that he lied to Maturi in the interview about his coaching IQ. He didn't get this job from knowing the X's and O's of football, he got it on bragging up what a great recruiter he is and how he was going to keep the best kids in Minnesota. But yet he still couldn't keep Seantrel Henderson here or Michael Floyd.

He recruited well at Texas, who wouldn't want to play for Texas and Mac Brown? And I question how much great recruiting he did at North Carolina.
 

GMan said:
Sid says "Every one of these coaches had done a good job at his previous school."
Here are their D-I records before coming to Minnesota.

Coach - Prev D-I school(record) - MN Record
------------------------------------------------------------
Cal Stoll - Wake Forest(15-17) - 39-39
Joe Salem - None - 19-35-1
Lou Holtz - Arkansas(60-21-2) - 10-12
John Gutekunst - None - 29-37-2
Jim Wacker - TCU(40-58-2) - 16-39
Glen Mason - Kansas(47-54-1) - 64-57


Except for Holtz when did we bring a good coach here?
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this is exactly it!!! Only Holtz. Can we land another Holtz? He was fired at Arkansas and became available, maybe that's who we need to look for, a winning coach to fell into disfavor for other reasons, not unlike Tubby. And a coach who has a history of sticking to a philosophy and maintaining a staff long term, which seem to be critical elements. Not what the specific philosophy is, just that you maintain it. Rich Rod seems to be starting to turn Michigan back around sticking to his version of the spread rather than continuously reinventing around personnel.
 

Wheaton said:
I'm sure Brewster had to have laid out some sort of plan for logistics purposes with Maturi, but you know as well as I do that Brewster has no substance

We could rally off dozens of quotes from Brewster that had little to no truth behind them. He simply lies about the talent on the roster, so for me its not hard to believe that he lied to Maturi in the interview about his coaching IQ. He didn't get this job from knowing the X's and O's of football, he got it on bragging up what a great recruiter he is and how he was going to keep the best kids in Minnesota. But yet he still couldn't keep Seantrel Henderson here or Michael Floyd.
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Right, and Henderson and Floyd were the type of athletes he needed to recruit to overcome the horrible coaching and gameplan that has dominated the Brewster era.
 

Here's a question for Sid and those that agree with him:

Other than Holtz, what have the rest of the Gopher coaches he mentioned done after leaving the U? If any of those coaches had left the U and been successful at another large school I would say he has a point.
 



goldengophers said:
Right, and Henderson and Floyd were the type of athletes he needed to recruit to overcome the horrible coaching and gameplan that has dominated the Brewster era.
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Sid's way off here, but I'll say this: If Micheal Floyd came here, Brewster would have won over 8 games in 08', probably close to that in 09'. Doesn't mean we would have been anywhere different now, but that kid is a program changer and a hometown talent that would have made a big difference.
SH who knows, probably no difference this year unless he's going to play safety.
 

goldengophers said:
Brewster is one of the worst hires in the history of college football
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Settle down.

He didn't take the gravy train and drive it into Lake Calhoun. He took over a mediocre program and made it, well, mediocre.

A bad hire? Sure. But "one of the worst hires in the history of college football"?

Why do people even say things like this??
 

dpodoll68 said:
Settle down.

He didn't take the gravy train and drive it into Lake Calhoun. He took over a mediocre program and made it, well, mediocre.

A bad hire? But "one of the worst hires in the history of college football"?

Why do people even say things like this??
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dpodoll68 we arent mediocre right now. we are bad. historically bad. first time since 1898 with 3 straight non-conference loses bad. if brew has the program at mediocre right now than Mase had it as a rose bowl contender.

mediocre? why do people even say things like this??
 

The team isn't mediocre now, but it was in 08 and 09. Brewster is gone after this year, but worst coach ever in college football? No.
 



We're not arguing good or bad now, just degrees of bad. Brewster has outdone Wacker, Wacker never got more than 4 wins in a season, and only got to 3 Big Ten wins once. There's a lot of similarity to Joe Salem's career, mediocre, and then the wheels fall off hard.
 

Go4 said:
dpodoll68 we arent mediocre right now. we are bad. historically bad. first time since 1898 with 3 straight non-conference loses bad. if brew has the program at mediocre right now than Mase had it as a rose bowl contender.

mediocre? why do people even say things like this??
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Funny. I thought coaches were judged by their entire body of work, not 4 game samples.

I expect we can hear of Brian Kelly's firing any day now?
 

tjgopher said it all. In truth, you DO have to kiss a few (or more) frogs before you find the prince. Sid's approach is a losing formula.

When you find the right person, you keep him if you can. Bud Grant retired here. So did Tom Kelly, so will Gardy. Hopefully John Anderson and Mike Hebert will, too. Clem would have and Tubby will. Nobody can claim that people in this community are too fickle or too hard on coaches. We love the good ones and we're smart enough to know the difference.
 

When you're waiting for your date to arrive, it's good to be patient. However, at some point, you realize you've been stood up. Brewster is getting four years, that's patience enough. It would be one thing if this was another mediocre year, but when the wheels are falling off the wagon in year four, it's time. One loss to a I-AA team is survivable, but not two.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Funny. I thought coaches were judged by their entire body of work, not 4 game samples.

I expect we can hear of Brian Kelly's firing any day now?
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what part of brewster's 'body of work' tells you he's anything but inept??
 


Gopher_Ace said:
I'll be lucky if I dont get arrested for knocking someone out at TCF Bank Stadium this season. In the stands and in the locker room I came close to assault last weekend. Gonna be a long season hopefully it doesnt end in jail.
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Are you a fan or a Gopher player? Your comment really disturbs me.
 

The Gophers have been too patient with coaches who clearly were not getting it done (Wacker, Mason, possibly Brewster). The U has continually delayed the process of rebuilding for years by holding on to coaches "on the hot seat" killing recruiting and fan interest. Good points on the myth of "good" coaches coming here and not suceeding. We've hired one successful coach (Holtz) who definitely had the program looking up before he left.
 

GMan said:
Sid says "Every one of these coaches had done a good job at his previous school."
Here are their D-I records before coming to Minnesota.

Coach - Prev D-I school(record) - MN Record
------------------------------------------------------------
Cal Stoll - Wake Forest(15-17) - 39-39
Joe Salem - None - 19-35-1
Lou Holtz - Arkansas(60-21-2) - 10-12
John Gutekunst - None - 29-37-2
Jim Wacker - TCU(40-58-2) - 16-39
Glen Mason - Kansas(47-54-1) - 64-57


Except for Holtz when did we bring a good coach here?
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Exactly Gman and Sid is nuts!! as usual it isn't the firing, its the damn lousy hiring afterwards!!!! so this time fire the lousy coach and for God's sake HIRE an extremely competent one!! with experience and former credibility
 

Sid, we've been patiently waiting for you to retire for 25 years now.

Does anyone think it's true what Sid says about all former Gopher football coaches that if called and asked about the job by a potential new coach that all of them would say not to take the job?

Mason on KFAN today said he was a Minnesota fan.

I like how Reusse makes Sid look like an idiot on The Sports Show.
 

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