Shama: Glen Taylor: Equity Group Not in Place for Wolves Sale

[jamiche]

Except they didn't trade the next decade away. Every young core player is locked up for the future.

You need to stop acting like giving up late 1st round picks is somehow mortgaging the future. The Wolves got back to the top of the 2nd round to take a 1st round talent in Miller and he doesn't play. They'll have their end of the 1st round pick this year, yet many are calling this the worst NBA draft class in history.

Unless you have one of the top picks, the NBA draft is a much as a crapshoot as the MLB or NHL. Without Rudy the Wolves are in the play in round again this year. It's amazing how several of you would rather have that over a team that can actually compete for a NBA championship.

I'm glad you have a crystal ball. Like every other franchise, the wolves are one blown out knee and one trade demand from being back in the lottery. You have no clue what this team will look like in 2027, especially if Lore/ARod can't afford to keep it together.

The 2020 draft was supposed to be terrible. It ended up being above average.

I'm amused by your kool aid gulp that Leonard Miller is a first round talent. I was at the game Tuesday night against the Wizards, the second or third worst team in the league. They were missing a bunch of their guys. After basically a year and a half in the G league and garbage minutes for the wolves, Miller wouldn't have gotten minutes if he were playing for the Wizards in that game against the wolves. That's how out of place he looks when he does get on the court.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I'm glad you have a crystal ball. Like every other franchise, the wolves are one blown out knee and one trade demand from being back in the lottery. You have no clue what this team will look like in 2027, especially if Lore/ARod can't afford to keep it together.

The 2020 draft was supposed to be terrible. It ended up being above average.

I'm amused by your kool aid gulp that Leonard Miller is a first round talent. I was at the game Tuesday night against the Wizards, the second or third worst team in the league. They were missing a bunch of their guys. After basically a year and a half in the G league and garbage minutes for the wolves, Miller wouldn't have gotten minutes if he were playing for the Wizards in that game against the wolves. That's how out of place he looks when he does get on the court.

You can say that about any team and any year. Minnesotan's are always so concerned about the future instead of going for a title when they have a chance, like they do today. How has that worked out for our teams in the past? We only have the longest championship drought by far.

Miller is only 20, and averaged 20 and 9 in the G league this season. He's also 6'10" and shot 38% from 3. How many players look great that were drafted in the 15 picks ahead of him? Not many, if any. Utah took George with our pick who looks like he could be a solid player, but he likely wouldn't be playing much if he was on this team either, if we would have even taken him at that pick.

 

[jamiche]

You can say that about any team and any year. Minnesotan's are always so concerned about the future instead of going for a title when they have a chance, like they do today. How has that worked out for our teams in the past? We only have the longest championship drought by far.

Miller is only 20, and averaged 20 and 9 in the G league this season. He's also 6'10" and shot 38% from 3. How many players look great that were drafted in the 15 picks ahead of him? Not many, if any. Utah took George with our pick who looks like he could be a solid player, but he likely wouldn't be playing much if he was on this team either, if we would have even taken him at that pick.

You can pick and choose all you want. Jaden McDaniels was a late first round pick. Naz Reid was undrafted. Wiseman and Culver bombed. There are no guarantees going up or down the draft board. In today's NBA you need young, inexpensive talent to surround the big contracts. Statistically, you hedge your bets by having first round picks. The wolves have given themselves no margin for error going forward by trading and swapping first round picks through 2029. Claiming Leonard Miller is a first round talent because the team says he is lacks critical thinking capacity. He doesn't pass the eye test no matter how hard you squint.

Year one of Rudy was a net negative because the team didn't know how to use him and he thought he was #1 in the pecking order. This year he has been excellent, but the playoffs will determine his 2023-2024 legacy. The wolves brought him here to win a title, that's why they paid a huge price. Same with PHX trading for KD and Beal. Ishiba is going for the title and I'm guessing that he will consider those trades a failure if the Suns fall short. Wolves, too with Rudy.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

a lot depends on what happens this off-season.

there were plenty of people - local and national pundits - saying that the Wolves will look at trading KAT after this season because they couldn't afford all of the current contracts and stay out of the luxury tax. I don't know if KAT sustaining another significant injury impacts his market.

but certainly, trading KAT would be a way to recoup some of the picks lost in the Gobert deal.
for the record, the Wolves gave up:

unprotected 2023, 2025, and 2027 first-round picks, the Wolves 2029 first-round pick (top-five protected), and Utah has the right to swap first-rounders in 2026.

so the Wolves still have 1st-round picks in '24, '26 (possibly swapped with Utah) and '28. any trade for KAT would likely bring back at least 1 or 2 1st-round picks.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

You can pick and choose all you want. Jaden McDaniels was a late first round pick. Naz Reid was undrafted. Wiseman and Culver bombed. There are no guarantees going up or down the draft board. In today's NBA you need young, inexpensive talent to surround the big contracts. Statistically, you hedge your bets by having first round picks. The wolves have given themselves no margin for error going forward by trading and swapping first round picks through 2029. Claiming Leonard Miller is a first round talent because the team says he is lacks critical thinking capacity. He doesn't pass the eye test no matter how hard you squint.

Year one of Rudy was a net negative because the team didn't know how to use him and he thought he was #1 in the pecking order. This year he has been excellent, but the playoffs will determine his 2023-2024 legacy. The wolves brought him here to win a title, that's why they paid a huge price. Same with PHX trading for KD and Beal. Ishiba is going for the title and I'm guessing that he will consider those trades a failure if the Suns fall short. Wolves, too with Rudy.

So if you agree that the NBA draft is a crapshoot, then the Wolves didn't mortgage the next decade with the Gobert trade. The Wolves are a great example of not putting together a winning team despite having high draft picks year after year. It doesn't matter if you like Miller or not, that's the type of player they would be drafting if they still had their picks.

You typically need to find a star or two through the draft, which the Wolves have done, then the rest of your team is built through trades and free agency. You don't build it through a bunch of late round draft picks. This isn't the NFL.

Even if the Wolves fail to win a championship this season, it's a top 2 season in franchise history, and they'll make another run next season. It took Lore/ARod/Connelly 2 years to do what Taylor has done only once in the 28 years prior.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Neat

 

[jamiche]

So if you agree that the NBA draft is a crapshoot, then the Wolves didn't mortgage the next decade with the Gobert trade. The Wolves are a great example of not putting together a winning team despite having high draft picks year after year. It doesn't matter if you like Miller or not, that's the type of player they would be drafting if they still had their picks.

You typically need to find a star or two through the draft, which the Wolves have done, then the rest of your team is built through trades and free agency. You don't build it through a bunch of late round draft picks. This isn't the NFL.

Even if the Wolves fail to win a championship this season, it's a top 2 season in franchise history, and they'll make another run next season. It took Lore/ARod/Connelly 2 years to do what Taylor has done only once in the 28 years prior.

People who understand statistical modeling and the current CBA would suggest to you that it is better to have first round than second round picks. It's not that hard to figure out.

You seem so certain of the future. The wolves were the odds on favorite to take it all in 2004-2005 after making to the WC finals in 2003-2004. They didn't make the playoffs. The Vikings were supposed to go to the SB in 2010 after making it to the NFC championship game in 2009. They didn't make the playoffs. Those are two of many, many examples. Like every other really good team, the wolves are one wrong torn ACL from becoming average at best.

I know you are infatuated with team Lore/ARod/Connelly but Ant, KAT, Naz and Jaden were already here along w/ JMac in a supporting role. That's 75ppg in scoring and a damn good core. Connelly augmented it with one good FA signing (Slo-Mo), one bad trade (Rudy) and one excellent trade (Conley/NAW). Don't pretend he created this team. He augmented it at a very sizable cost.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

People who understand statistical modeling and the current CBA would suggest to you that it is better to have first round than second round picks. It's not that hard to figure out.

You seem so certain of the future. The wolves were the odds on favorite to take it all in 2004-2005 after making to the WC finals in 2003-2004. They didn't make the playoffs. The Vikings were supposed to go to the SB in 2010 after making it to the NFC championship game in 2009. They didn't make the playoffs. Those are two of many, many examples. Like every other really good team, the wolves are one wrong torn ACL from becoming average at best.

I know you are infatuated with team Lore/ARod/Connelly but Ant, KAT, Naz and Jaden were already here along w/ JMac in a supporting role. That's 75ppg in scoring and a damn good core. Connelly augmented it with one good FA signing (Slo-Mo), one bad trade (Rudy) and one excellent trade (Conley/NAW). Don't pretend he created this team. He augmented it at a very sizable cost.

You seem so certain the Wolves were always going to take a player that can help with these 4 draft picks when very few good players come out of each NBA draft, 1st or 2nd round. The statistical probability of winning now by taking a HOF player today, is much higher than rolling the dice on future players in a complete crapshoot. It's not that hard to figure out.

I am certain that I want the team to have a chance to win a championship, and getting Rudy gives them that chance now. Without him they are in the play in round again, at best, which is why it was a great trade. Connelly took a roster that was going to be stuck in the middle to bottom of the west and made it a championship contender.

You continue to significantly overvalue draft picks in the NBA. You also seem happy to be a fringe playoff team with the small chance that they will make a run someday. You would think after the last 33 years of Minnesota sports, you would learn that's the wrong approach.

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

You seem so certain the Wolves were always going to take a player that can help with these 4 draft picks when very few good players come out of each NBA draft, 1st or 2nd round. The statistical probability of winning now by taking a HOF player today, is much higher than rolling the dice on future players in a complete crapshoot. It's not that hard to figure out.

I am certain that I want the team to have a chance to win a championship, and getting Rudy gives them that chance now. Without him they are in the play in round again, at best, which is why it was a great trade. Connelly took a roster that was going to be stuck in the middle to bottom of the west and made it a championship contender.

You continue to significantly overvalue draft picks the NBA. You also seem happy to be a fringe playoff team with the small chance that they will make a run someday. You would think after the last 33 years of Minnesota sports, you would learn that's the wrong approach.

Rudy trade was great. And I hated it when it happened

 

[jamiche]

You can say that about any team and any year. Minnesotan's are always so concerned about the future instead of going for a title when they have a chance, like they do today. How has that worked out for our teams in the past? We only have the longest championship drought by far.

Miller is only 20, and averaged 20 and 9 in the G league this season. He's also 6'10" and shot 38% from 3. How many players look great that were drafted in the 15 picks ahead of him? Not many, if any. Utah took George with our pick who looks like he could be a solid player, but he likely wouldn't be playing much if he was on this team either, if we would have even taken him at that pick.

George belongs in the NBA. Miller belongs in the G league or overseas.

Rudy trade was great. And I hated it when it happened

You hated it when it happened. You love it today--and it will be objectively worth it no matter what if they win the championship, because that was the trade's purpose. If they don't win the championship, you will hate it again in 2027.

As KAT said when they made the trade, "It's championship or bust."

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

George belongs in the NBA. Miller belongs in the G league or overseas.

You hated it when it happened. You love it today--and it will be objectively worth it no matter what if they win the championship, because that was the trade's purpose. If they don't win the championship, you will hate it again in 2027.

As KAT said when they made the trade, "It's championship or bust."

I dont think I will ever regret it. They haven't had this good of a season in TWENTY YEARS!

 

[jamiche]

I dont think I will ever regret it. They haven't had this good of a season in TWENTY YEARS!

No doubt about it. A tremendous year. My point is we are paying a very high price for this very fun year. The ramifications of the price could put the franchise right back where it was.

Was the 2003-2004 year worth the 15 or so years that followed? If the wolves had won the title that year, I'd have said yes. That's not what happened and, while the memories of that year are fond, I'm not sure many fans would argue that the 15 years that followed were worth it. The lack of draft picks, the salary cap and the possibility of under capitalized owners could put us back there.

The Slo-Mo signing, the Conley/NAW trade and resigning Naz at a below market price were very solid. Connelly gets full credit for those decisions. The Rudy trade will be franchise transformative, one way or another.

 

[tikited]

No doubt about it. A tremendous year. My point is we are paying a very high price for this very fun year. The ramifications of the price could put the franchise right back where it was.

Was the 2003-2004 year worth the 15 or so years that followed? If the wolves had won the title that year, I'd have said yes. That's not what happened and, while the memories of that year are fond, I'm not sure many fans would argue that the 15 years that followed were worth it. The lack of draft picks, the salary cap and the possibility of under capitalized owners could put us back there.

The Slo-Mo signing, the Conley/NAW trade and resigning Naz at a below market price were very solid. Connelly gets full credit for those decisions. The Rudy trade will be franchise transformative, one way or another.

Embrace the trade. The picks are what worried me, but odds are one or two would have worked out. The rest would have been busts like Moore Jr. Healthy Rudy is the difference. He is why we have a chance to do something.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

George belongs in the NBA. Miller belongs in the G league or overseas.

You hated it when it happened. You love it today--and it will be objectively worth it no matter what if they win the championship, because that was the trade's purpose. If they don't win the championship, you will hate it again in 2027.

As KAT said when they made the trade, "It's championship or bust."

Actually I didn't hate it when it happened and have always thought it was a good trade.

If you want to think the trade and this team is a failure if we don't win a championship, then so be it. Then you also believe that Minnesota has seen 122 straight seasons of failure between all 4 pro teams. And you can add many more on top of that when including the Gophers.

I would much rather have the Wolves try to end that streak now, then rely on the very low percentage of hitting on draft picks to maybe have a chance someday, with an owner still in place that has no clue how to run a competitive franchise.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Embrace the trade. The picks are what worried me, but odds are one or two would have worked out. The rest would have been busts like Moore Jr. Healthy Rudy is the difference. He is why we have a chance to do something.

Exactly.

You have a limited and poof, it can be gone: hellooooo Bills.

If you don’t swing the stick, you don’t hit a homer; I’d rather whiff than watch strike three with bat stuck on my shoulder.