Question on Devoe 5 second call

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How is the 5 second rule interpreted now? I thought when he drove down the sideline he was A. No longer "closely guarded" and B. Improved his position on the court. There were some calls that were clearly horrible near the end of that game (Hoffarber travelling? Really?), but I honestly don't know if that call on Devoe was bad or not. At a minimum, it was an interpretation of the 5 second rule that is rarely seen or called.
 

My question exactly. Didn't he improve his position when he drove the sideline and got closer to the basket. I have never seen that called before.
 

Arne Carlson will have something to say about this. But yes, I thought if you made progress towards the basket the 5 seconds restarted.
 

As soon as he stopped his progress towards the basket and backed up, a new 5-second should have started. That was just one of a miriad of equalizers the zebras made in the last 8 minutes.
 

I generally don't rant on officiating..it always seems to balance out in the long run...but the last 5 minutes were bad. Westbrooks travel...Iverson got hammered on his layup miss...the charge by Tisdale that resulted in his miss and o rebound put back...and the 5 second call that was absolutely incorrect to name just a few...
 


I didn't think it was a bad call. I didn't think he was making progress toward the basket. He dribbled along the sideline toward the baseline, but not toward the basket. I was yelling at the TV before the call, pleading with Devoe to pass it in to Ralph so he wouldn't get called for that.
 

NCAA 2009 Men's and Women's rules:

Section 14. Closely Guarded
Art. 1. Closely guarded violations occur when:
a. A team in its front court (men) or on the playing court (women) controls
the ball for five seconds in an area enclosed by screening teammates.
b. (Men) A closely guarded player anywhere in his front court holds or
dribbles the ball for five seconds. This count shall be terminated during
an interrupted dribble.
 

thanks for the actual rule - but get rid of that rule or modify it to make some sense.
 

macgopher said:
NCAA 2009 Men's and Women's rules:

Section 14. Closely Guarded
Art. 1. Closely guarded violations occur when:
a. A team in its front court (men) or on the playing court (women) controls
the ball for five seconds in an area enclosed by screening teammates.
b. (Men) A closely guarded player anywhere in his front court holds or
dribbles the ball for five seconds. This count shall be terminated during
an interrupted dribble.
Click to expand...

The second part is awfully vague. So basically, if the official deems you closely guarded for 5 seconds, it doesn't matter where you dribble, you have to get rid of it? Some of Ralph's hook-shots take that long. Should he be assessed a 5 second call just as he's putting it up?
 



thanks for the actual rule - but get rid of that rule or modify it to make some sense.

Was still questionable, on if he was in 'an area enclosed by screening teammates.' From one direction he was. But I believe 'screening teammates' is plural in it's meaning?
 

The second part is awfully vague. So basically, if the official deems you closely guarded for 5 seconds, it doesn't matter where you dribble, you have to get rid of it? Some of Ralph's hook-shots take that long. Should he be assessed a 5 second call just as he's putting it up?
Click to expand...

Not in that scenario. Different part of the rules states, at least I would think this applies when a dribble stops and shooting begins:

Art. 6. During an interrupted dribble (meaning a shot is going up), there shall be no player control and
the following cannot occur:
a. Player-control foul;
b. Granting of a timeout request; or
c. (Men) Five-second closely guarded dribbling violation.
 

I have never seen a 5 second call in college basketball where the player possessing the ball covers as much court as Joseph did. Usually they give that to people who are standing still. Even then, it is rare.
 

It was a bad call. The rule only applies if the player is standing or dribbling in the same place. When you move out of the 3 feet radius a new clock should start. It should never be used on someone dribbling the ball whether you are moving away from the basket or towards the basket.
 



howeda7 said:
The second part is awfully vague. So basically, if the official deems you closely guarded for 5 seconds, it doesn't matter where you dribble, you have to get rid of it? Some of Ralph's hook-shots take that long. Should he be assessed a 5 second call just as he's putting it up?
Click to expand...

The rule of thumb is 5 feet. Also, the progress has to be considered a move toward the basket...not just advancing the ball. It was an iffy call, not a brutal one.
 

jovs said:
It was a bad call. The rule only applies if the player is standing or dribbling in the same place. When you move out of the 3 feet radius a new clock should start. It should never be used on someone dribbling the ball whether you are moving away from the basket or towards the basket.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that is true at all - unless you shake the defender and get past him (i.e., your head or shoulders are the past defender), it's the same as standing in the same place dribbling per the rules.
 

But as some have alluded to, rules have practical application. I am certain I have seen a player dribble the ball under pressure for as long or longer than Joseph, but I have never seen a foul called for it. That tells me the officials normally interpret the rule differently than did the official in the Illinois game. It's like the time a friend and I went to Faribault for a hs game. We were talking to a home town fan before the game started and when he saw the officials come on the court he warned us to be ready for a pile of lane violations during free throws. He was right and it was the only time I've seen it called so closely. To me that means those officials were off base, regardless of the rule book.
 

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