Question for Fleck Critics

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Spoofin said:
And you wonder why I question your reading comprehension? I never claimed any of those things offended me - although you claimed I did 3 times now. Please, continue. I understand with each post why PJ’s lies don’t bother you.


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"Some Tool Was offended by PJ Fleck". That's all I said of you. PJ offends you. The characterization of PJ as mr positivity and helping kids with cancer is mine, not yours. Although it's objectively true.
 

Spoofin said:
He has said it many times and still you think it could be a misstatement. THAT is why you are a Fleckster. One with very poor reading skills unfortunately.


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Perhaps no one in his orbit corrected him. I don't know and neither do you. You could say it's 99% a lie, but you can't say for sure. And he could have simply misstated it several times as well. You don't know. I can read fine and you can't logic.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Your stance on this particular issue has been abundantly clear to even the most casual of observers, even prior to the proliferation of posts in this thread.
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Yep. Pretty much all he posts about.


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Go Gophs said:
To be fair Jerry Kill had this program on the right track. He and Fleck are basically on the same trajectory. Kill did it by coaching up kids and by having excellent defenses. PJ is trying to do it with better recruits and an offense that can move the ball at will.

I wouldn't say Kill had no chance to get this program where you wanted them to be. He took them to a New Years Day bowl game and they were competiitve with teams in their division. Also, just a FYI, but Minnesota will never play for a National Championship. They just don't get the recruits and never will. Unless you want to get involved with pay for play like the SEC and THE OHIO STATE does, the best you can hope for it a top finish in the BT and New Years day bowl.
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I liked Kill, don’t get me wrong. But I don’t think he was a big enough draw to top athletes. He was really great at turning average players into NFL ready players. I appreciate all he did for the program. I guess I lost some respect when he started smack talking the U of M. I didn’t like the way they got rid of Claeys, thought it was sleezy, but the time was coming at some point. The U just used the scandal as a way to justify what they were trying to do already.

In terms of national championships, to say we never will play for one is pretty pessimistic. If you remember, Clemson used to be a bottom level ACC team that a couple times would creep into the top 25 and then lose towards the end of their season to drop out again. Now look where they are. Not sure if you remember this, but 2004 we played Bama in the Music City Bowl. So I don’t think it’s fair to say never when it comes to us playing for the national championship. Unless you’re trying to say the same 3-5 teams will just keep rotating for the championship


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short ornery norwegian said:
Gophers have an undefeated team.

And yet some fans are upset, because other fans don't love the head coach as much as they do.

that is like my brother getting mad at me because I don't like Adam Sandler movies, and he thinks "Happy Gilmore" is a work of art.

different people can have different opinions.

you cannot force someone to share your opinion. (well, I guess you could use torture, but that might be a bit excessive....)
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Let's make the same statement, but in another way:

Gophers have an undefeated team.

And yet some folks are upset, because the coach said "100" when it was actually "99", and he said "4 of 5" when that was inaccurate. Or whatever else he said that has their undies in a bunch.

Some folks see the forest; others vector in on a few saplings, I guess.

If constantly focusing on every statement the coach makes — with an eagle-eye always peeled for any inaccuracies (or 'LIES', if you prefer) is what helps some folks enjoy what looks like it could be a legendary season for the Gophers, hey, who am I to say that's strange or comical?

Saddle up; tilt away. Enjoy!
 
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RememberMurray said:
Let's make the same statement, but in another way:

Gophers have an undefeated team.

And yet some folks are upset, because the coach said "100" when it was actually "99", and he said "4 of 5" when that was inaccurate. Or whatever else he said that has their undies in a bunch.

Some folks see the forest; others vector in on a few saplings, I guess.

If constantly focusing on every statement the coach makes — with an eagle-eye always peeled for any inaccuracies (or 'LIES', if you prefer) is what helps some folks enjoy what looks like it could be a legendary season for the Gophers, hey, who am I to say that's strange or comical?

Saddle up; tilt away. Enjoy!
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You think it takes an eagle-eye to spot them?

His "inaccuracies" don't both me, but can we at least call them "fibs" or say he is "spinning things". These "inaccuracies" always go one way. It's always we have fewer seniors than we really have. Or we have won more games than we did. He forgot about the NW game but not the Purdue game.

I have already given my opinion about this way too many times. I don't really care that he is spinning things in his favor. Part of being a face of a franchise or a CEO is marketing. But lets not pretend these are just slips. He is spinning the narrative.
 

And yet Murray is convinced we don’t like or want the coach here. Talk about zeroing in and ignoring everything else.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You think it takes an eagle-eye to spot them?

His "inaccuracies" don't both me, but can we at least call them "fibs" or say he is "spinning things". These "inaccuracies" always go one way. It's always we have fewer seniors than we really have. Or we have won more games than we did. He forgot about the NW game but not the Purdue game.


I have already given my opinion about this way too many times. I don't really care that he is spinning things in his favor. Part of being a face of a franchise or a CEO is marketing. But lets not pretend these are just slips. He is spinning the narrative.
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I'm glad to hear these things (inaccuracies, slips, fibs, spin, lies, whatever) don't actually bother you. Good to know.
 




Bob_Loblaw said:
You think it takes an eagle-eye to spot them?

His "inaccuracies" don't both me, but can we at least call them "fibs" or say he is "spinning things". These "inaccuracies" always go one way. It's always we have fewer seniors than we really have. Or we have won more games than we did. He forgot about the NW game but not the Purdue game.

I have already given my opinion about this way too many times. I don't really care that he is spinning things in his favor. Part of being a face of a franchise or a CEO is marketing. But lets not pretend these are just slips. He is spinning the narrative.
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If so, it is absolutely not working at all on anyone, and is having the opposite effect to what he intends. So PJ, knock it off.
 

When the perpetual nitpickers are harping on the coach for reading the "yards gained" column versus "net" column on the stat sheet during a press conference, that must be a sign things are going well.
 

MnplsGopher said:
Fleck doesn’t need all that crap — and that IS what it is, crap — to win. He could win just as well as he is right now, with plain/traditional uniforms, and without all the jargon. Kids don’t buy into that, no matter what he says.

Kids do buy into the family/values/doing the right thing/working hard stuff, when it works, and most importantly winning! Fleck has all that to offer, along with a decent scheme, and great recruiting/eye for talent. He doesn’t need all the weirdness.

An ideal model for him, that I wish he would more closely emulate, is James Franklin at Penn St.

Would highly recommend watching the inside look at their program this season on HBO. They’re doing things right there.


But in the end, of course I’m going to take the wins.
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Have Nadine email me as to why my response was acceptable.
 



RememberMurray said:
I never said that, actually. Hyperbole on your part, perhaps?
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Look, PJ has a mild character flaw. It isn’t the worst thing in the world and it actually is an advantage in sales positions (which is part of his job). This entire thread and others like it is a regurgitation of old statements because a segment of fans demand 100% adoration of coach which is never going to happen no matter how long you whine about it. Your energy would be better spent advising PJF to reel himself in and void the number stuff. Either way it goes, not a huge deal for the coach of a children’s game. This isn’t a serious matter despite your huffing and puffing.
 

John Galt said:
WT adds nothing to the board, he’s a complete tool. He wouldn’t exist if he couldn’t insult someone in every post.
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The fact that you and scool think the rest of us need to apologize to your little dimwitted bully club is really tiresome.

You fellas don't get to decide how and why everyone else is Gopher fans.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Look, PJ has a mild character flaw. It isn’t the worst thing in the world and it actually is an advantage in sales positions (which is part of his job). This entire thread and others like it is a regurgitation of old statements because a segment of fans demand 100% adoration of coach which is never going to happen no matter how long you whine about it. Your energy would be better spent advising PJF to reel himself in and void the number stuff. Either way it goes, not a huge deal for the coach of a children’s game. This isn’t a serious matter despite your huffing and puffing.
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You can't make it up.

The same posters over and over again refuse to or simply don't understand. It isn't a serious matter yet the same gang of posters haven't stopped whining about it for 3 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!
 

I guess we're making progress. I remember the days when we had speculation that PJ was deliberately losing a game so the turn around would be even more impressive. Or the posts about how he would play players who were so injured (from the diagnosis from the stands) that PJ was obviously a heartless hypocrite. Or the harping by the number one clown how PJ was so phony because he was singling out Croft for punishment. Benching the poor guy for fumbling and not the other QB who fumbled--totally ignoring the fact how much of it might have been due to Croft's attitude and other screw-ups.

Now it's just minor indiscretions. We're offended but it's no big deal. We never were that vitriolic. It's okay for us to lie about that. We just wish PJ wouldn't tell those little lies. And we'll just run with the lie that anyone who reacts to our constant carp is demanding 100% adoration of the coach.
 

Section2 said:
Perhaps no one in his orbit corrected him. I don't know and neither do you. You could say it's 99% a lie, but you can't say for sure. And he could have simply misstated it several times as well. You don't know. I can read fine and you can't logic.
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If no one in his orbit felt comfortable pointing out that one of his key talking points was based on an objective factual inaccuracy, that points to an entirely different issue with his program's culture.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
If no one in his orbit felt comfortable pointing out that one of his key talking points was based on an objective factual inaccuracy, that points to an entirely different issue with his program's culture.
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It's not one of his key talking points, and it doesn't mean no one felt "comfortable," it might mean that no one noticed or cared.

You're making a whole host of assumptions that simply may not be true, and you're stating them as objective facts.
 

scools12 said:
You can't make it up.

The same posters over and over again refuse to or simply don't understand. It isn't a serious matter yet the same gang of posters haven't stopped whining about it for 3 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!
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You guys are the ones that continually bring it up. Seriously, look in the mirror. If you don’t want to hear the answer don’t ask the question. Common sense.

??
 

Mulligan said:
I guess we're making progress. I remember the days when we had speculation that PJ was deliberately losing a game so the turn around would be even more impressive. Or the posts about how he would play players who were so injured (from the diagnosis from the stands) that PJ was obviously a heartless hypocrite. Or the harping by the number one clown how PJ was so phony because he was singling out Croft for punishment. Benching the poor guy for fumbling and not the other QB who fumbled--totally ignoring the fact how much of it might have been due to Croft's attitude and other screw-ups.

Now it's just minor indiscretions. We're offended but it's no big deal. We never were that vitriolic. It's okay for us to lie about that. We just wish PJ wouldn't tell those little lies. And we'll just run with the lie that anyone who reacts to our constant carp is demanding 100% adoration of the coach.
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Definitely doesn’t look that way.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
You guys are the ones that continually bring it up. Seriously, look in the mirror. If you don’t want to hear the answer don’t ask the question. Common sense.

??
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Look in the mirror?

Take your own advice.


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I accept your adulation of the coach. You do not accept that I like most things except questioning of the factual errors as they arise. Which one of us is being unreasonable?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I accept your adulation of the coach. You do not accept that I like most things except questioning of the factual errors as they arise. Which one of us is being unreasonable?
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Speaking only for myself, of course:

Thanks for accepting my "adulation of the coach" (ahem).

I, in return, fully accept your silly nit-picking, your pearl-clutching and your constant harping on the most trivial things imaginable.

Is everyone all-square now? Good!
 
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For the Righteous Crusaders whose new buzz word is “adulation” it has nothing to do with how anyone on this board feels about Fleck.




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RememberMurray said:
Speaking only for myself, of course:

Thanks for accepting my "adulation of the coach" (ahem).

I, in return, fully accept your silly nit-picking, your pearl-clutching and your constant harping on the most trivial things imaginable.

Is everyone all-square now? Good!
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It can’t possibly be trivial (to you) if it makes you this upset. In fact, I can almost guarantee you you are probably the most upset person in this thread. You asked, we answered. Can we get back to enjoying the season now?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
It can’t possibly be trivial (to you) if it makes you this upset. In fact, I can almost guarantee you you are probably the most upset person in this thread. You asked, we answered. Can we get back to enjoying the season now?
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A) I'm not upset. I'm quite amused.

B) Yes, I believe we can get back to the season now... until, of course, P. J. Fleck tells another "lie". We all know what happens at that point.

The thundering sound of galloping hoofbeats will be heard once again...

C) Are you employing "the royal 'we'"?
 
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We can talk all we want about the proportionality of the criticism, but it was entirely within Fleck's power to prevent, so at a minimum, the criticism belongs in the category of self-inflicted wounds for PJ.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
We can talk all we want about the proportionality of the criticism, but it was entirely within Fleck's power to prevent, so at a minimum, the criticism belongs in the category of self-inflicted wounds for PJ.
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I don't think the 'wounds' are very serious.
 

RememberMurray said:
I don't think the 'wounds' are very serious.
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Based on your posts in this thread it seems like the wounds bother you tremendously. I think we’re all a little confused by your posts. Does talking about PJ’s sales pitch habits bother you, or not? If it were inconsequential then that should be self evident, no? But here we are, 20 pages in...self inflicted
 

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