Question for Fleck Critics

Thymanst

Member
When college football show announcers (Dave wandstant,etc)yesterday on Fox all we’re talking about rowing the boat the purpose was clear, it is a type of branding that makes the u stand out from everyone else.
 

Spoofin

Active member
You’re offended by his positive culture? Offended??? Toughen up snowflake.


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I stated clearly in my post what offends me at times. I never mentioned a positive culture in my post once. So, are you trolling or just not very good at reading?


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paulser21

Member
I like the row the boat slogan and I think the uniform combos/helmet decals are pretty cool. Fleck is doing an awesome job connecting with today’s youth with his marketing. I know our older fan base doesn’t like change or being flashy but “traditional” things and remaining status quo won’t connect with a lot of today’s kids.
 

Schnauzer

Pretty Sure You are Wrong
I think the most telling part of this discussion is we have people complaining about oars and beaver tails on helmets and they’ve been so focused on that, it has escaped them these things haven’t appeared on the helmets since last season.

Likewise, both here and elsewhere - lots of discussion about Fleckisms and his antics but like the retired beaver tails, it seems many haven’t picked up on the fact the team is in the midst of its longest winning streak since Truman was president.
 

gopherdudepart2

Active member
I was always a skeptic of coach Brewster because he laid on his stomach against BGSU that first game, and would act hyped up and weird to play New Mexico State like he was really lit up on Mountain Dew. The only thing I have been kind of weirded out by PJ is the running up and down the sidelines at quarter break. Not a fan, but I figure it's his way of expressing things to his players so I can live with it. It's his show, he is the head coach so he get's to do what he wants. Ever since they beat Purdue last year, I have been a believer that this dude knows what he is doing. That and when he removed Smith as DC. Had to be a tough thing because he knew that coach a very long time. Loyalty is one thing, but he knew to cut a good man loose, when things were not working, and simplify things. Good managers and coaches make tough decisions. Row the Boat, Ski U Mah, beat Rutgers this week, Go Gophers

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highwayman

Knows Less Than Coaching Staff
You clearly have never built a team or managed a group of people successfully. It is all about that group's buy-in. By whatever means you decide to try. Clearly it is working with our players. That. Is. All. That. Matters.
I know several former CFB players. This is what 100% of them say.

On a side note, I have a weekly huddle I run with my team. 10 minutes on metrics and issues. 10 minutes on anything. Anything. I've learned more about ghost towns, the Camaro, kidney stones, Emperor Maximilian, state boundaries, and carbon bicycle frames than I will ever know. My folks love it. 10 minutes to bond a team for the whole week.
 
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alchemy2u

Active member
I am an optimistic.

PJ is doing a fantastic job of building a positive program of players that believe they can win. Players that pay attention to the details and continue to improve. Players that think about others and represent the U well. Players that feel honored to be playing college sports and not entitled.

He does that by recruiting high quality players and nurturing the traits that lead to those skills. Some of his methods may seem over the top and too “slogany” for us old fans, but they work.

I do not like the paddles and slogans on the uniforms. The U has been around for a very long time, please keep the markings on the uniforms specific to the school. I love the Goldy helmets.

I also think that PJ has toned down his slogans a bit in public. He had to hit it hard when he first got here to make them stick. Now they are installed he can just keep it going.

I think stopping the fake punt is a prefect example of how these players believe in themselves. So many times in the past we would have let a team back into a game by not paying attention. These guys pay attention to the details.


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Replacement Gopher

Active member
I like the row the boat slogan and I think the uniform combos/helmet decals are pretty cool. Fleck is doing an awesome job connecting with today’s youth with his marketing. I know our older fan base doesn’t like change or being flashy but “traditional” things and remaining status quo won’t connect with a lot of today’s kids.
Post of the day!
 

John Galt

Active member
Maybe the skeptics can create the caricature for a how the head coach at the U should behave. Let us know what he should say, how he should motivate, what’s acceptable and what’s not. Let’s go find that guy, right?
 

Minnesota

Member
I would also consider myself a critic - not a skeptic.

I have said from day 1 that he was the right hire and I think he could be successful here. I still feel that way.

I have also said from day 1 that I didn’t like his shtick, found it annoying, and in some cases insincere and/or dishonest, and therefore offensive. I still feel that way.

I really like the direction of the Gophers. I already think it was “worth it” to hire PJ - but I am also unlikely to ever change my view on either of the day 1 statements mentioned above.


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Offensive??? Get a grip, man.
 

Spoofin

Active member
Maybe the skeptics can create the caricature for a how the head coach at the U should behave. Let us know what he should say, how he should motivate, what’s acceptable and what’s not. Let’s go find that guy, right?
Do those skeptics need to run their preferences by you first to get the OK?


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bleedsmaroonandgold

Active member
I am an optimistic.

PJ is doing a fantastic job of building a positive program of players that believe they can win. Players that pay attention to the details and continue to improve. Players that think about others and represent the U well. Players that feel honored to be playing college sports and not entitled.

He does that by recruiting high quality players and nurturing the traits that lead to those skills. Some of his methods may seem over the top and too “slogany” for us old fans, but they work.

I do not like the paddles and slogans on the uniforms. The U has been around for a very long time, please keep the markings on the uniforms specific to the school. I love the Goldy helmets.

I also think that PJ has toned down his slogans a bit in public. He had to hit it hard when he first got here to make them stick. Now they are installed he can just keep it going.

I think stopping the fake punt is a prefect example of how these players believe in themselves. So many times in the past we would have let a team back into a game by not paying attention. These guys pay attention to the details.


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I may be wandering off topic here, but you brought up the fake punt.

PJ personally deserves a lot of credit. He smelled something, and from the upper deck I could see him given the signal to defend the fake and only subbed in the returner, left the rest of the defense on instead of the coverage team. That was well played.
 

Bob_Loblaw

Active member
Maybe the skeptics can create the caricature for a how the head coach at the U should behave. Let us know what he should say, how he should motivate, what’s acceptable and what’s not. Let’s go find that guy, right?
This conversation is clearly over your head.
 

Spoofin

Active member
Offensive??? Get a grip, man.
Yes, I find it offensive when someone deliberately and repeatedly is dishonest with the sole intent of creating a perception that is based on falsehoods. Other’s “don’t care”, think it is “minor” or “coach speak”, or accept it if we win. We have been over this many times.


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The OP asked for people's opinions. I gave my opinion.

An opinion is just that - an opinion. It's my perspective. You don't have to like it or agree with it.

But telling me I need to change? Sorry, not going to happen.

I am me. You are you. different people, different opinions.

There is more than one way to be a fan, or follow a football team. You cannot force other people to think what you think, or believe what you believe.

No matter how "right" you think you are, there is always going to be someone who disagrees with you. Learn to live with that.
 
Yes, I find it offensive when someone deliberately and repeatedly is dishonest with the sole intent of creating a perception that is based on falsehoods. Other’s “don’t care”, think it is “minor” or “coach speak”, or accept it if we win. We have been over this many times.


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Not sure what is offensive and repeatedly dishonest? Are you referring to PJ or other posters?
 

#2Gopher

Active member
The OP asked for people's opinions. I gave my opinion.

An opinion is just that - an opinion. It's my perspective. You don't have to like it or agree with it.

But telling me I need to change? Sorry, not going to happen.

I am me. You are you. different people, different opinions.

There is more than one way to be a fan, or follow a football team. You cannot force other people to think what you think, or believe what you believe.

No matter how "right" you think you are, there is always going to be someone who disagrees with you. Learn to live with that.
I get what you're saying in that you can't force others to think what you think etc. However don't you think that sometimes things will grow on you, or will come around? Realize that it takes time sometimes. However we all change over the years whether or not we think we do. I do believe people have come around with Fleck if only they are willing to admit is another story.
 

Section2

Active member
I stated clearly in my post what offends me at times. I never mentioned a positive culture in my post once. So, are you trolling or just not very good at reading?


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Yeah, his positive spin. I read it clearly. All part of his positive culture. I don’t think you have to like him at all.
If you’re offended by PJ Fleck, grow a pair.


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Spoofin

Active member
Yeah, his positive spin. I read it clearly. All part of his positive culture. I don’t think you have to like him at all.
If you’re offended by PJ Fleck, grow a pair.


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So not trolling, just bad at reading. OK.


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HoustonTXGopher

Active member
When college football show announcers (Dave wandstant,etc)yesterday on Fox all we’re talking about rowing the boat the purpose was clear, it is a type of branding that makes the u stand out from everyone else.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Minnesota has ZERO brand recognition and ZERO tradition in the world of college football. Love it or hate it, PJ has given Minnesota instant brand recognition, the winning is putting it in the forefront. Most transitions on national shows to Minnesota football goes right to the RTB and Ski U Mah (Fleck has brought Ski U Mah into the living rooms of college football fans everywhere) which we never had before.

I have learned to live with it, it is what it is! Relevance comes with a price for Minnesota football.
 

Face The Facts

Fleck Superfan
It becomes a question of whether the things fans hate are criteria to become successful.


Not liking the promotion of program / self promotion to gain media attention to better promote for recruiting
Not liking the educational tools / slogans / teaching material to make players better, build a social bond, and play disciplined
Not liking the off the field "spiritual" or "social" aspects which provide the players focus of football within their lives and provide balance to keep out of trouble
Not liking unusual uniform decals / colors that remind the players to keep playing hard despite obstacles.
Not liking his promotion of the team GPA because he's building players for careers on or off the field.

People have not liked a lot of the "tools" PJ is using, but each one is almost an essential requirement to run PJ's program the way he does.

Essentially, people want to enjoy the results without the tools to get there.
 
The OP asked for people's opinions. I gave my opinion.

An opinion is just that - an opinion. It's my perspective. You don't have to like it or agree with it.

But telling me I need to change? Sorry, not going to happen.

I am me. You are you. different people, different opinions.

There is more than one way to be a fan, or follow a football team. You cannot force other people to think what you think, or believe what you believe.

No matter how "right" you think you are, there is always going to be someone who disagrees with you. Learn to live with that.
Yes, the flatest pancake has two sides.
 
This is exactly what I was thinking. Minnesota has ZERO brand recognition and ZERO tradition in the world of college football. Love it or hate it, PJ has given Minnesota instant brand recognition, the winning is putting it in the forefront. Most transitions on national shows to Minnesota football goes right to the RTB and Ski U Mah (Fleck has brought Ski U Mah into the living rooms of college football fans everywhere) which we never had before.

I have learned to live with it, it is what it is! Relevance comes with a price for Minnesota football.
It all depends on whether the media types who mention "row the boat" are doing it respectfully or mockingly. One or two media types have actually put it into context and given the background with the death of Fleck's child. But, I suspect that most of the mentions are being done more tongue-in-cheek or as an excuse for jokes and headlines.

I realize a program that is trying to gain respect or prominence in the college football landscape may have to promote itself more actively. but in the end, good programs are know for winning. the consistent top-20 programs generally don't have catch phrases or slogans. people respect them because they win.

When people talk about Gopher football, I would prefer that their first association with "Gopher Football" is "boy, they're good." Not row the boat or any other slogan.
 

RememberMurray

Active member
I have a question for the poster(s) who has (have) a problem with Coach Fleck's jargon, slogans, etc....

Would you please name a modern football coach you like and/or admire, and describe what it is you like about him?

I ask because I have been under the impression that most coaches use slogans and jargon for communicating and motivating. Some go for the 'military metaphor'; some use stuff like "This is OUR house!". Some love the "It's us against the rest of the world!" device.

Vince Lombardi was famous for "Winning isn't everything; it's the only thing." It isn't difficult to think of many hackneyed coaching cliches: "There is no "I" in team" comes to mind. This sort of thing is generic Coaching 101, I would think.

It all seems kind of the same to me; no specific one jumps out at me as offensive or wrong.

I wonder if all coaches bother or offend the anti-Fleck people in the same way? I'm curious as to why anyone would find Fleck's use of these types of communication tools particularly offensive. It seems pretty benign to me, not to mention positive — and, apparently, effective.

I also find it curious that people sometimes describe Fleck, or his 'enthusiasm' or his 'energy', as somehow dishonest or insincere. I really don't see that at all. What specifically seems dishonest to you guys?
 
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HoustonTXGopher

Active member
It all depends on whether the media types who mention "row the boat" are doing it respectfully or mockingly. One or two media types have actually put it into context and given the background with the death of Fleck's child. But, I suspect that most of the mentions are being done more tongue-in-cheek or as an excuse for jokes and headlines.

I realize a program that is trying to gain respect or prominence in the college football landscape may have to promote itself more actively. but in the end, good programs are know for winning. the consistent top-20 programs generally don't have catch phrases or slogans. people respect them because they win.

When people talk about Gopher football, I would prefer that their first association with "Gopher Football" is "boy, they're good." Not row the boat or any other slogan.
Wouldn't that be something! Slogans and mottos are a part of college football. My guess is that your biggest issue is that we have added RTB and such to the uniforms at times, etc.... Reminds me of "Brick by Brick"

Anyway.....

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/247348542/best-greatest-college-football-slogans
 

noamfromm

Member
Love it or hate it, PJ has given Minnesota instant brand recognition, the winning is putting it in the forefront.
The Row the Boat brand is why Rashod Bateman knew who P.J. Fleck was. He wanted to play for Fleck, and I hope that more talented young men are attracted to the brand take their talents north.
 

Tully55

Active member
(sarcasm alert) I can just imagine hearing someone in the future saying, "Yeah, I know he has won a couple Rose Bowls and a national championship, but I can't stand it that he still does that end of the quarter sprint. That is such an embarrassing self promotion!":rolleyes:
 

Tully55

Active member
I have a question for the poster(s) who has (have) a problem with Coach Fleck's jargon, slogans, etc....

Would you please name a modern football coach you like and/or admire, and describe what it is you like about him?

I ask because I have been under the impression that most coaches use slogans and jargon for communicating and motivating. Some go for the 'military metaphor'; some use stuff like "This is OUR house!". Some love the "It's us against the rest of the world!" device.

Vince Lombardi was famous for "Winning isn't everything; it's the only thing." It isn't difficult to think of many hackneyed coaching cliches: "There is no "I" in team" comes to mind. This sort of thing is generic Coaching 101, I would think.

It all seems kind of the same to me; no specific one jumps out at me as offensive or wrong.

I wonder if all coaches bother or offend the anti-Fleck people in the same way? I'm curious as to why anyone would find Fleck's use of these types of communication tools particularly offensive. It seems pretty benign to me, not to mention positive — and, apparently, effective.

I also find it curious that people sometimes describe Fleck, or his 'enthusiasm' or his 'energy', as somehow dishonest or insincere. I really don't see that at all. What specifically seems dishonest to you guys?
Herb Brooks...When you pull on that jersey, the name on the front is a hell of a lot more important more than the one on the back.
 
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