Question for Fleck Critics

Section2

Active member
You've several times now stated "lies" or LIES. Pray tell, what else do you call it when someone intentionally states something that they know isn't true?
I don't "know" that for a fact, that he knowingly states something that is objectively untrue. I've always assumed that PJ tries to spin things that are technically true in some way. Maybe that's wrong, but that's my impression. It's possible that he was mistaken.

So they are "lies" or LIES. I give him the benefit of the doubt, if you don't want to, that's ok. Neither of us has proof. But it's not offensive either way.
 

dpodoll68

Elite Poster
I don't "know" that for a fact, that he knowingly states something that is objectively untrue. I've always assumed that PJ tries to spin things that are technically true in some way. Maybe that's wrong, but that's my impression. It's possible that he was mistaken.

So they are "lies" or LIES. I give him the benefit of the doubt, if you don't want to, that's ok. Neither of us has proof. But it's not offensive either way.
How is "won 4 of the past 5 games" in any way spin? I'd love to know a way in which that's not objectively untrue. And how could he not know that it was a false statement before he said it? He's either lying or stupid - neither paints him a favorable light. That's just the most easily refutable lie - there are many others. Spin away on things that are subjective. Don't lie on things that are objective and demonstrably false.

To be clear, the reason this sh1t bothers me so much is that, in my mind, it takes Fleck's performance to date at the U from a 100 to a 95. Everything else is great and continuing to trend very positively in the right direction. As you've accurately stated, it serves no purpose and does nothing to advance the cause. There is no upside and only drawbacks. But make no mistake, he is lying, not "lying" or LYING.
 

Section2

Active member
How is "won 4 of the past 5 games" in any way spin? I'd love to know a way in which that's not objectively untrue. And how could he not know that it was a false statement before he said it? He's either lying or stupid - neither paints him a favorable light. That's just the most easily refutable lie - there are many others. Spin away on things that are subjective. Don't lie on things that are objective and demonstrably false.

To be clear, the reason this sh1t bothers me so much is that, in my mind, it takes Fleck's performance to date at the U from a 100 to a 95. Everything else is great and continuing to trend very positively in the right direction. As you've accurately stated, it serves no purpose and does nothing to advance the cause. There is no upside and only drawbacks. But make no mistake, he is lying, not "lying" or LYING.
It's not, won 4 of 5 is either a misstatement or a lie. the percentage of the roster stuff, there are a handful of other things that sound like spin, and I assume there's some lens to view the statement where at least PJ believes it's technically true.

My point isn't whether the things he's said are true or false, but whether he thinks they are true or false.
 

scools12

Active member
Gophers have an undefeated team.

And yet some fans are upset, because other fans don't love the head coach as much as they do.

that is like my brother getting mad at me because I don't like Adam Sandler movies, and he thinks "Happy Gilmore" is a work of art.

different people can have different opinions.

you cannot force someone to share your opinion. (well, I guess you could use torture, but that might be a bit excessive....)
No fans are upset because of this.

Try reading post #131.

It has nothing to do with how anyone feels about Fleck.
 
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Spoofin

Active member
I can only speak for myself. If you don't like PJ, fine. Please do call him out when he misstates something or (clutches pearls) LIES. <b>I only jumped in this thread because some absolute Tool was literally OFFENDED by PJ "Mr Positivity and trying to help everyone be their best and spend time with kids with cancer" Fleck. </b>It's astounding. It needs to be absolutely blasted as the most preposterous statement I've ever read on this board.
And you wonder why I question your reading comprehension? I never claimed any of those things offended me - although you claimed I did 3 times now. Please, continue. I understand with each post why PJ’s lies don’t bother you.


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Spoofin

Active member
It's not, won 4 of 5 is either a misstatement or a lie.
He has said it many times and still you think it could be a misstatement. THAT is why you are a Fleckster. One with very poor reading skills unfortunately.


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Face The Facts

Fleck Superfan
Post #131 is underrated.

I went back and read it. If I could "like" a post, I would like that one multiple times.


I'm fine with a coach "coach-speaking" or "lying" about 5 out of six wins if he goes out and then does was he was lying about.
We are well past winning 5 out of our last 6 at this point, so even if that lie bothered me, I'd probably be okay with it now.

I hope he lies about wanting to make the CFP next.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Just so I understand - these “high horse crusaders” are those that don’t see things the same as you, right?

And, the things that these folks are compelled to keep talking about have been deemed “insignificant” by you, right?

Whew, you go after those self-righteous jerks.
Your stance on this particular issue has been abundantly clear to even the most casual of observers, even prior to the proliferation of posts in this thread.
 

MnplsGopher

Active member
I still find the RTB, HYPPER, FAMILY, and ELITE acronyms to be hokie. Get the beaver tail off the helmet and enough with the anthracite. These things will not impress me. They are unnecessary for public consumption.
That being said. I appreciate winning so if Fleck keeps winning I will appreciate the results. I won't become a lover of silly acronyms, however.
Fleck doesn’t need all that crap — and that IS what it is, crap — to win. He could win just as well as he is right now, with plain/traditional uniforms, and without all the jargon. Kids don’t buy into that, no matter what he says.

Kids do buy into the family/values/doing the right thing/working hard stuff, when it works, and most importantly winning! Fleck has all that to offer, along with a decent scheme, and great recruiting/eye for talent. He doesn’t need all the weirdness.

An ideal model for him, that I wish he would more closely emulate, is James Franklin at Penn St.

Would highly recommend watching the inside look at their program this season on HBO. They’re doing things right there.


But in the end, of course I’m going to take the wins.
 

Section2

Active member
And you wonder why I question your reading comprehension? I never claimed any of those things offended me - although you claimed I did 3 times now. Please, continue. I understand with each post why PJ’s lies don’t bother you.


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"Some Tool Was offended by PJ Fleck". That's all I said of you. PJ offends you. The characterization of PJ as mr positivity and helping kids with cancer is mine, not yours. Although it's objectively true.
 

Section2

Active member
He has said it many times and still you think it could be a misstatement. THAT is why you are a Fleckster. One with very poor reading skills unfortunately.


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Perhaps no one in his orbit corrected him. I don't know and neither do you. You could say it's 99% a lie, but you can't say for sure. And he could have simply misstated it several times as well. You don't know. I can read fine and you can't logic.
 

mjfelton15

Member
To be fair Jerry Kill had this program on the right track. He and Fleck are basically on the same trajectory. Kill did it by coaching up kids and by having excellent defenses. PJ is trying to do it with better recruits and an offense that can move the ball at will.

I wouldn't say Kill had no chance to get this program where you wanted them to be. He took them to a New Years Day bowl game and they were competiitve with teams in their division. Also, just a FYI, but Minnesota will never play for a National Championship. They just don't get the recruits and never will. Unless you want to get involved with pay for play like the SEC and THE OHIO STATE does, the best you can hope for it a top finish in the BT and New Years day bowl.
I liked Kill, don’t get me wrong. But I don’t think he was a big enough draw to top athletes. He was really great at turning average players into NFL ready players. I appreciate all he did for the program. I guess I lost some respect when he started smack talking the U of M. I didn’t like the way they got rid of Claeys, thought it was sleezy, but the time was coming at some point. The U just used the scandal as a way to justify what they were trying to do already.

In terms of national championships, to say we never will play for one is pretty pessimistic. If you remember, Clemson used to be a bottom level ACC team that a couple times would creep into the top 25 and then lose towards the end of their season to drop out again. Now look where they are. Not sure if you remember this, but 2004 we played Bama in the Music City Bowl. So I don’t think it’s fair to say never when it comes to us playing for the national championship. Unless you’re trying to say the same 3-5 teams will just keep rotating for the championship


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RememberMurray

Active member
Gophers have an undefeated team.

And yet some fans are upset, because other fans don't love the head coach as much as they do.


that is like my brother getting mad at me because I don't like Adam Sandler movies, and he thinks "Happy Gilmore" is a work of art.

different people can have different opinions.

you cannot force someone to share your opinion. (well, I guess you could use torture, but that might be a bit excessive....)
Let's make the same statement, but in another way:

Gophers have an undefeated team.

And yet some folks are upset, because the coach said "100" when it was actually "99", and he said "4 of 5" when that was inaccurate. Or whatever else he said that has their undies in a bunch.


Some folks see the forest; others vector in on a few saplings, I guess.

If constantly focusing on every statement the coach makes — with an eagle-eye always peeled for any inaccuracies (or 'LIES', if you prefer) is what helps some folks enjoy what looks like it could be a legendary season for the Gophers, hey, who am I to say that's strange or comical?

Saddle up; tilt away. Enjoy!
 
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Bob_Loblaw

Active member
Let's make the same statement, but in another way:

Gophers have an undefeated team.

And yet some folks are upset, because the coach said "100" when it was actually "99", and he said "4 of 5" when that was inaccurate. Or whatever else he said that has their undies in a bunch.


Some folks see the forest; others vector in on a few saplings, I guess.

If constantly focusing on every statement the coach makes — with an eagle-eye always peeled for any inaccuracies (or 'LIES', if you prefer) is what helps some folks enjoy what looks like it could be a legendary season for the Gophers, hey, who am I to say that's strange or comical?

Saddle up; tilt away. Enjoy!
You think it takes an eagle-eye to spot them?

His "inaccuracies" don't both me, but can we at least call them "fibs" or say he is "spinning things". These "inaccuracies" always go one way. It's always we have fewer seniors than we really have. Or we have won more games than we did. He forgot about the NW game but not the Purdue game.

I have already given my opinion about this way too many times. I don't really care that he is spinning things in his favor. Part of being a face of a franchise or a CEO is marketing. But lets not pretend these are just slips. He is spinning the narrative.
 

RememberMurray

Active member
You think it takes an eagle-eye to spot them?

His "inaccuracies" don't both me, but can we at least call them "fibs" or say he is "spinning things". These "inaccuracies" always go one way. It's always we have fewer seniors than we really have. Or we have won more games than we did. He forgot about the NW game but not the Purdue game.


I have already given my opinion about this way too many times. I don't really care that he is spinning things in his favor. Part of being a face of a franchise or a CEO is marketing. But lets not pretend these are just slips. He is spinning the narrative.
I'm glad to hear these things (inaccuracies, slips, fibs, spin, lies, whatever) don't actually bother you. Good to know.
 
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