Quarterback Spike in GSU Game

bleedsmaroonandgold

Active member
This ended up being moot, because the GSU called a timeout right before the play so it didnt technically happen. That said, from where I sat, it appeard that when we lined up deep in GSU territory on the winning drive and tried to spike the ball, that Tanner awkwardly turned such that he threw the ball backwards with the spike. But for the timeout, is there any chance that would have been a fumble?
 

GFBfan

Active member
This ended up being moot, because the GSU called a timeout right before the play so it didnt technically happen. That said, from where I sat, it appeard that when we lined up deep in GSU territory on the winning drive and tried to spike the ball, that Tanner awkwardly turned such that he threw the ball backwards with the spike. But for the timeout, is there any chance that would have been a fumble?
Except for the TO, it should have been. Ball rolled to Bryce who picked it up, so it would have still been our ball, but from the 10 and clock would have been started.
 
This ended up being moot, because the GSU called a timeout right before the play so it didnt technically happen. That said, from where I sat, it appeard that when we lined up deep in GSU territory on the winning drive and tried to spike the ball, that Tanner awkwardly turned such that he threw the ball backwards with the spike. But for the timeout, is there any chance that would have been a fumble?
I noticed that too and I'd be lying if I said I didn't say a few choice words at the TV. Hopefully that was covered during meetings this week.

Side note: I've never fully understood why spiking the ball isn't considered intentional grounding. Is there an actual rule that allows for spiking the ball or has it always just been something that is allowed?
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

Active member
I noticed that too and I'd be lying if I said I didn't say a few choice words at the TV. Hopefully that was covered during meetings this week.

Side note: I've never fully understood why spiking the ball isn't considered intentional grounding. Is there an actual rule that allows for spiking the ball or has it always just been something that is allowed?
I think there is an exception to the rule for if the QB is under center and it happens immediately after the snap.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

Active member
I noticed that too and I'd be lying if I said I didn't say a few choice words at the TV. Hopefully that was covered during meetings this week.

Side note: I've never fully understood why spiking the ball isn't considered intentional grounding. Is there an actual rule that allows for spiking the ball or has it always just been something that is allowed?
Yup, specific rule just for spiking it.
 

Section2

Active member
I saw the same thing and had the same thought, but there is some obscure rule here where I think it isn't a fumble. Arm moving forward is more important than direction the ball travels. Same thing happens if the QB gets hit while throwing and the ball ends up traveling backward. Bottom line, no bean bags came out from any of the officials, so they did not rule fumble, and I'm sure they saw it and knew the rule.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

Active member
I wanted to see this play again but the dang GSU replay was taken down from youtube...

I wonder how much a ref really wants to make that call in a game. Some ref's I'm sure but man I'd want to not have to call that in such a situation....
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

Active member
I wanted to see this play again but the dang GSU replay was taken down from youtube...

I wonder how much a ref really wants to make that call in a game. Some ref's I'm sure but man I'd want to not have to call that in such a situation....
I'm not close to an expert on review rules, but is there a chance that (had the timeout not been called) a review could have resulted in a determination that it should have been a fumble and then been accompanied by an automatic clock runoff since it shouldn't have stopped? It's a lot tougher to "not want to make the call" when you are reviewing a replay. Also, I'm not a fan of refs wanting or not wanting to make a call. They have a tough job, and they are going to blow some calls in good faith, but I dont want them motivated by anything other than getting the call at the time right. That is also why I hate makeup calls.
 

GopherRock

GopherHole Straw Boss
The bigger time management issue on that series is that GSU shouldn't have taken either holding penalty earlier on. At that stage, 2nd down is far more valuable for the defense than another shot at 1st down and an additional 10 yards.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

Active member
The bigger time management issue on that series is that GSU shouldn't have taken either holding penalty earlier on. At that stage, 2nd down is far more valuable for the defense than another shot at 1st down and an additional 10 yards.
I duno, I'm willing to bet the odds the gophers pull off a 3rd and 10 are way higher than say 2nd and 20.
 

highwayman

Knows Less Than Coaching Staff
The bigger time management issue on that series is that GSU shouldn't have taken either holding penalty earlier on. At that stage, 2nd down is far more valuable for the defense than another shot at 1st down and an additional 10 yards.
Sorry, neither situation helps a defense against Clutch Morgan.
 

Spoofin

Active member
I saw the same thing and had the same thought, but there is some obscure rule here where I think it isn't a fumble. <b>Arm moving forward is more important than direction the ball travels. </b>Same thing happens if the QB gets hit while throwing and the ball ends up traveling backward. Bottom line, no bean bags came out from any of the officials, so they did not rule fumble, and I'm sure they saw it and knew the rule.
Not sure the bold is accurate. If a screen pass is thrown backwards it is a fumble and clearly the QBs arm is moving forward on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

RodentRampage

Active member
Does anyone have a video of the play? People near me were yelling about the spike going backwards, but it was at the far end of the field so I couldn't make it out.
 

Lakeville Goldy

Active member
I don't know if it's a formal rule or just an instruction, but I believe it's not a backwards pass unless it lands behind the back foot. In normal play, it's so hard to determine where the arm is (especially when the QB is moving), where the ball is released, etc., that they went with that so it's easier to determine. I know the NFL did that after the Music City Miracle and I'm almost sure the NCAA followed suit.

I've seen the ball hit the QB in the feet on a spike and I've never seen it called a lateral. It would be automatically reviewed if it was an issue.
 

MaxyJR1

Active member
High School the QB must be under center to legally ground the ball.
College they can be under center or in the shot gun.
NFL I believe is under center as well.

Likely not going to get called backwards unless egregious.
 

Section2

Active member
Not sure the bold is accurate. If a screen pass is thrown backwards it is a fumble and clearly the QBs arm is moving forward on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You are correct on a screen or swing pass.

I mean toward the opposing goaline "forward". I'm not sure, but there have been times in a game where a qb is being tackled while throwing and technically the ball/arm move laterally or backward but it's not a fumble.

Found this rule on NFL website
Item 3: Stopping ClockA player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if,
immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball
directly into the ground.

Doesn't say it has to be forward technically, just directly to the ground which morgan did.

Refs would have bean bags out if this was a fumble. I'm guessing technically he did it fine even if it looked suspect.
 

GFBfan

Active member
You are correct on a screen or swing pass.

I mean toward the opposing goaline "forward". I'm not sure, but there have been times in a game where a qb is being tackled while throwing and technically the ball/arm move laterally or backward but it's not a fumble.

Found this rule on NFL website
Item 3: Stopping ClockA player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if,
immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball
directly into the ground.

Doesn't say it has to be forward technically, just directly to the ground which morgan did.

Refs would have bean bags out if this was a fumble. I'm guessing technically he did it fine even if it looked suspect.
He actually turned before throwing it to the ground. I thought it was odd at the time and that it should be considered a fumble. When they said GSU called a TO, it halted the play.
Had the TO not been called I would have challenged the call if I were the GSU coach. It would have been an interesting review had it happened. Would like to have heard what all the TV experts would have said about it.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

Active member
He actually turned before throwing it to the ground. I thought it was odd at the time and that it should be considered a fumble. When they said GSU called a TO, it halted the play.
Had the TO not been called I would have challenged the call if I were the GSU coach. It would have been an interesting review had it happened. Would like to have heard what all the TV experts would have said about it.
I'm glad we didn't have to hear about it...
 

RodentRampage

Active member
You are correct on a screen or swing pass.

I mean toward the opposing goaline "forward". I'm not sure, but there have been times in a game where a qb is being tackled while throwing and technically the ball/arm move laterally or backward but it's not a fumble.

Found this rule on NFL website
Item 3: Stopping ClockA player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if,
immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball
directly into the ground.

Doesn't say it has to be forward technically, just directly to the ground which morgan did.

Refs would have bean bags out if this was a fumble. I'm guessing technically he did it fine even if it looked suspect.
Reading that, I think it would have been really hard to call this a fumble. Maybe they could have said that by turning, it wasn't immediately enough, but that would be cutting it pretty fine. The intent is to disallow a quarterback to look for a play and only spike it if there wasn't one available. Still, in the future, it's best to avoid ambiguity and spike it as immediately as possible.
 
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