Playing Time / Based on BC Game

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Otis said:
So, what your saying is, Gabe is providing John Thomas, Richard Coffey or Johnson level play to the team which makes him irreplaceable.

Sorry, but Gabe doesn't even come close to reaching the kind of skin your knees intangibles to make him irreplaceable those guys offered.

He's not a rebounder.
He doesn't get a lot of steals.
He doesn't make any assists. (even when he has the ball. which of course is rare)
He doesn't stand out as a Dusty Rychart "I'm going to sacrifice myself to do whatever I can to help the team" type.
He has no emotion and adds no fire to the atmosphere at all.

I hear what your saying, but I don't see it.

He adds to the team when he hits daggers and cuts the heart out of the other team. This is his one best asset. Nailing it from deep and running back down court like it was nothing. Almost Ray Allen like, "Yeah, I just did that and now I'm chewing some gum." God, do I miss that!

And he can't do it right now.
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Its obvious I’m not being clear. I do not think Gabe has been great and I do advocate for some minutes reduction. To totally not play is wrong though imo. If he was a DJ or someone else you mentioned above, we wouldn’t be conversing about a minutes reduction.

On this current roster he is our best wing defender. He’s always in good position on and off the ball. He’s great at helping and recovering and takes charges which is incredibly important when Carr decided to not defend at all like last night. On this team that’s incredibly valuable imo because for the most part everyone else is awful to average (Mashburn is probably above average) at it. If he was just a shooter he’d not been offered by the U or high major for that matter. I just think we get over reactionary to one stat sometimes.
 

I trust the coaches with Gabe. They know the psyches and strengths/weaknesses of the players. I was also impressed with the postgame interviews of Williams and Mashburn. Two thoughtful, unselfish guys.

If Johnson cant go, I really hope Ihnen gets the start. UMKC is picked middle of summit league a couple of slots ahead of UND so cant take them lightly but would be a good game to see if Ihnen can build on the last game.

To me Gabe and Ihnen have much more upside this season than Williams, Masburn, Curry, Omersa so I want to give those two every chance possible. Will trust the coaches.
 
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Nobody is saying Gabe Kalesheur shouldn't play.

We are saying continuing to start him and play him a minimum of 29min/game is tantamount to insanity. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

Not starting could take a load off his shoulders. Or it could put a massive chip on his shoulder. Either way, it may shake him out of it.

Also, his play is more indicative of say, 20min/game.

I still don't agree with you on his being our best perimeter defender. Gach looks much faster and way longer to have to shoot over. I would take a matchup against Gabe over Both every time.
 

Otis said:
Nobody is saying Gabe Kalesheur shouldn't play.

We are saying continuing to start him and play him a minimum of 29min/game is tantamount to insanity. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

Not starting could take a load off his shoulders. Or it could put a massive chip on his shoulder. Either way, it may shake him out of it.

Also, his play is more indicative of say, 20min/game.

I still don't agree with you on his being our best perimeter defender. Gach looks much faster and way longer to have to shoot over. I would take a matchup against Gabe over Both every time.
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I also wonder how much cutting his minutes would improve his shooting. The dude runs his ass off constantly and that can hurt your lift and form as well. He may be a case where subtracting his minutes makes his impact greater when he’s in there
 

upnorthkid said:
I also wonder how much cutting his minutes would improve his shooting. The dude runs his ass off constantly and that can hurt your lift and form as well. He may be a case where subtracting his minutes makes his impact greater when he’s in there
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I thought of that when I was thinking of Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson of the Pistons. He said he didn't want a bigger role because of just what you said, it would decrease his impact while he was on the floor.
 


Chico Gopher said:
Was thinking of what my expectations of Curry were before the season started, as opposed to my hopes. So far, I think he has played about to expectations, considering his injuries and time off. My hopes were that he'd be able to give us 10-12 solid minutes of 4-6 points, 3 rebounds and solid team defense around the hoop. Maybe he eventually will, but maybe we're seeing everything he has left.
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This is what I was thinking at the start of the year too. 10-15 minutes per game where he is providing leadership. 5 PPG, 3 RPB, 1 APG, and maybe a few defensive stops.
 

I agree with most everyone above, Im not saying to kick the kid off and he should play 0 minutes. He is a good team player and has some ability, but I think 15 min a game is more than enough until/if he figures out his shot.

And I am totally lost manderson saying he is "clearly our best wing defender" There is not a stat out there than agrees with that.

Gach D-rating (93.0)
Tre D-rating (94.0)
Gabe D Rating (97.7)
Mash D rating (99.3)

So Gach/Tre are clearly better (by a decent amount) on defense and I think we all agree Mash brings more on offense (if you want stats, the team is scoring 10 points per 100 possessions MORE with mash on the floor than gabe) So just saying he should be a pretty solid 4th on the wing list.

Say there are 80 minutes at the SG/SF and add in say 6 for when Carr sits I would say something like
Both-28
Tre-23
Mash-20
Gabe-15

Thats all assuming Mutaf is hurt/not showing much yet. Otherwise i would trot him out there some too.
 

This will never happen but this is what I'd like to see going forward:

Starters:
PG: Carr, duh he's a first team B1G player.
SG: Williams, He has shown signs and deserves the spot over a struggling Gabe.
SF: Gach, At this rate, he will make one of the B1G end of year teams.
PF: Ihnen, he looked very good last night and Curry clearly hasn't got it anymore. (BJ when he's back)
C: Robbins, default pick. Who else is there?

6th man: Gabe, he needs to have his burden lightened and be given the chance to get out of his rut.
7th man: Mashburn, kid has the mind, mentality and the build to spell Gach and Carr. Keeping everyone fresh and available is the key to COVID play.
Curry and Omersa, spot duty when there is foul trouble up front. Wonder if we will see Freeman or Mitchell with BJ out? I'd like to. It's not like it would burn their redshirt chances.

Mutaf? I'm not convinced he really exists.

That said, whatever lineup Pitino sends out will undoubtedly include Carr, Gach, Robbins and (let's face it) Gabe. Decision to go small or big with either Williams or Ihnen replacing DJ.
 

leib0039 said:
I agree with most everyone above, Im not saying to kick the kid off and he should play 0 minutes. He is a good team player and has some ability, but I think 15 min a game is more than enough until/if he figures out his shot.

And I am totally lost manderson saying he is "clearly our best wing defender" There is not a stat out there than agrees with that.

Gach D-rating (93.0)
Tre D-rating (94.0)
Gabe D Rating (97.7)
Mash D rating (99.3)

So Gach/Tre are clearly better (by a decent amount) on defense and I think we all agree Mash brings more on offense (if you want stats, the team is scoring 10 points per 100 possessions MORE with mash on the floor than gabe) So just saying he should be a pretty solid 4th on the wing list.

Say there are 80 minutes at the SG/SF and add in say 6 for when Carr sits I would say something like
Both-28
Tre-23
Mash-20
Gabe-15

Thats all assuming Mutaf is hurt/not showing much yet. Otherwise i would trot him out there some too.
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I appreciate your use of data. You're right in that there is not a great encompassing defensive stat to go off. The D rating is interesting and a start, but it has flaws and in our teams case it can be pretty crucial. It's flawed towards posts first off. They will always have a lower/better rating. It also cannot account for how good a player is in the helpside. For example, Marcus Carr (who was absolutely awful defensively the last two games) has a better rating than Mashburn or Gabe. Ihnen's Drating is better than any of our wings. Most and hopefully all college teams grade their players each game defensively and then they calculate their system from there. Considering Gabe is still guarding the best wing on the opposing team, is significantly better on help/weakside than Gach, and he most liklely leads the team in charges that is why he's clearly the best wing defender on this team imo. Gach with his length and athleticism has the ability to be the best. Tre is getting better and better, but there is a reason this staff puts Gabe on the other teams best offensive wing and most likely the reason he's still getting the minutes he's getting.
 



One thing about Gabe. He has way more game experience than others and uses it well and understands the game. I'm saying his mental approach to the game exceeds the physical part. RP can count on him as he likely has a firm grasp of what RP wants. The others can't match that at this time but as they develop and get more PT, they will improve. And if that happens and they perform well, then Gabe will see his PT diminish unless he is more productive. I think we are starting to see that with Curry right now and possibly with Omersa.

We have all seen what Gabe can do when he is in the 3 zone. And it looks as if he is trying to develop his drive game and pull up J. This team really needs that and RP knows it. But his time is running short as his lack of offense production is hurting the team.
 

manderson1984 said:
I appreciate your use of data. You're right in that there is not a great encompassing defensive stat to go off. The D rating is interesting and a start, but it has flaws and in our teams case it can be pretty crucial. It's flawed towards posts first off. They will always have a lower/better rating. It also cannot account for how good a player is in the helpside. For example, Marcus Carr (who was absolutely awful defensively the last two games) has a better rating than Mashburn or Gabe. Ihnen's Drating is better than any of our wings. Most and hopefully all college teams grade their players each game defensively and then they calculate their system from there. Considering Gabe is still guarding the best wing on the opposing team, is significantly better on help/weakside than Gach, and he most liklely leads the team in charges that is why he's clearly the best wing defender on this team imo. Gach with his length and athleticism has the ability to be the best. Tre is getting better and better, but there is a reason this staff puts Gabe on the other teams best offensive wing and most likely the reason he's still getting the minutes he's getting.
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Mashburn has played 5 collegiate games!!!!!!!!! He looks every but the part and will only get better.

Wow.
 

manderson1984 said:
We'd be worse defensively and have more turnovers, but would've had more a few more three pointers made? Consider Gabe shot 20 three's this year. Say those guys made 8 of them compared to the 2 Gabe made. We are talking about 12 points more. Gabe's defense and lack of turnovers (especially with Tre) still makes him the + player.
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Wrong. If they hit those 3s, it would open up the floor more for other players. We'd be much better on offense than just those 12 points.
 

It's gotten to the point that Gabe isn't even asked to be part of the offense. On possession after possession last night he went to the right corner and stood. He's rarely given the ball, he's hardly ever asked to dribble, and he's never involved with the mini-weave that the other wings do.

Gabe's droopiness on offense is not being lost on opposing coaches. His man is playing well off him and clogging up driving lanes. Having a more potent offensive threat at his position will make it easier for Carr and Gach to attack the rim.
 



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