Players lost this more than coaches

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FredCoxRocks said:
I blame the sports gods. They hate Minnesota football...actually, Minnesota sports. And just to mess with us they had the pro team's brand new quarterback lead the way to a victory, building up the hopes of Vikings fans...only to pull the rug out from under them down the road.
It's a story oft repeated.
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At some point, the captains and seniors have to take ownership of what happens on the field. Maybe its just not a strong senior class this year. That happens. A strong set of seniors typically do not blow last-minute leads a couple times in a season.
 

Gophers1992 said:
Ultimately coaches do bear the responsibility of wins and losses over the long haul, fair or not, but I do kind of agree with OP. I thought the coaches put the players in a position to win had they executed. I feel the same way about Northwestern game. I don't think Sean Tyler is coached to fumble the ball, I don't think Nubin was coached to take horrible angles on those two long touchdowns, I don't think Athan is coached to sail the ball over his TE's head, etc.

We all want to look for explanations and someone to point fingers at after a devastating loss, but the reality is sometimes you just lose, plain and simple. We could argue for years over who's at fault, but Illinois made one more play, got one more bounce, made one more block, one more tackle, etc. Two evenly matched teams played a close game that was decided by one point in the last minute. There's not always a simple explanation to why we lose.
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Who spotted Illinois seven points in a game we lost by one?

Who went with a trick play two-point conversion, giving up a point, in a game we lost by one?

The answer to both questions is Fleck.

Sean Tyler does not run back the opening kickoff on his own. He was either told to return it or at least given a green light to make his own decision.

What coach in his right mind sends Tyler out to open the game with a kickoff return with Tyler's history of fumbling. Fleck did that.
 

GopherDog1 said:
It starts with the University itself which decided to put Mark Coye in charge of athletics who hired PJ who recruited the players. A player known to fumble; #2 didn't put himself deep to take the opening kickoff but when Beleima saw him back there, the Illinois coaches knew to kick the ball to him and cause a fumble with the kickoff team. Fleck put #2 back there, and at that moment he showed me he doesn't want to win games as bad as some fans want to win. It goes on and on.
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Fleck not only put Tyler back there he green lighted him to return the kick. For several years Fleck mandated fair catching kickoffs no matter how deep the ball was. Yet on Saturday he thought it would be a good idea to put a guy back there with permission to return the kick who has fumbled several times this year including his first carry the week before.

Fleck gave Illinois seven points in a game lost by one.
 


MNVCGUY said:
Give me a break....

Going for 2 in that situation was the right call, you can disagree with the play call but the decision was correct. If we kick the extra point there then Illinois just kicks the extra point after their TD and we still lose by 1.

As for putting Tyler back there on the kickoff.....that one can be debated but they were giving the kid a chance and he unfortunately fumbled again. You can pin that one on the coaches for not giving up on the kid I guess.
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It's Big Ten football. You play who you think will protect the football not somebody you are afraid has hurt feelings. Fleck cost Minnesota seven points and the football game.

Rossi compounded the coaching failures by failing to put all out pressure on a cold backup QB with the game on the line.

The Gopher roster played well enough to be 7-2. Coaches have turned that into 5-4.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
You're ignoring the fact that because of that decision, Illinois ended up trying for two also, and failed. Had we kicked the XP, so would they have. So this didn't affect the outcome.

Edit: @Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 beat me to it!
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Did spotting Illinois seven points by green lighting the one kind who has fumbled all year to return the opening kickoff affect the outcome?
 

Dakota2 said:
Who spotted Illinois seven points in a game we lost by one?

Who went with a trick play two-point conversion, giving up a point, in a game we lost by one?

The answer to both questions is Fleck.

Sean Tyler does not run back the opening kickoff on his own. He was either told to return it or at least given a green light to make his own decision.

What coach in his right mind sends Tyler out to open the game with a kickoff return with Tyler's history of fumbling. Fleck did that.
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You do realize if we kick that extra point rather than go for 2, Illinois just kicks an extra point after their last TD and we still lose by one, right?
 

Gophers1992 said:
You do realize if we kick that extra point rather than go for 2, Illinois just kicks an extra point after their last TD and we still lose by one, right?
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You're wasting your time trying to talk with @Dakota2. Others have already pointed that out. He/she just responds by ignoring the mistake.
 



Dakota2 said:
It's Big Ten football. You play who you think will protect the football not somebody you are afraid has hurt feelings. Fleck cost Minnesota seven points and the football game.

Rossi compounded the coaching failures by failing to put all out pressure on a cold backup QB with the game on the line.

The Gopher roster played well enough to be 7-2. Coaches have turned that into 5-4.
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In regards to Tyler obviously they didn't think he was going to fumble and felt he could give us a spark on kickoff return....it backfired and we probably won't see Tyler in any high leverage situations for the rest of the year.

And to your last point, someone could just as easily say that the coaches had us in position to be 7-2 but lack of execution by the players down the stretch turned that into 5-4.

Most can understand that it isn't all on the players and it isn't all on the coaches. For some reason you seem totally unwilling to put any of the blame for what happened against Northwestern and Illinois on the players which is crazy because multiple examples of mistakes/missed opportunities by the players have been highlighted in this and other threads.
 

There has been a concern over the entire Fleck Coaching Era that his teams do not in-game adjust well when whatever we're doing on O or D just becomes ineffective. This takes a number of forms with the finger pointed to the HC, OC, and DC depending on the situation.

I think since Rossi took over this mostly has not been an issue on D because we were able to tighten up schemes over the first half, regroup at halftime, and then go forward. The same can't be said for the offense although certainly there have been both bright spots and dismal stretches over these 7 years.

Certainly for both Northwestern and Illinois this year we were not able to adjust in real time on either D or O in those later series in the second half of those games. This particular phenomena is on the coaches, but is exacerbated by poor decisions and execution by the players.

Unfortunately this inability to adjust well in real time is not something that can be just turned on and off. Not looking for regime change myself at this time but this is a flaw when Fleckball is the philosophy.
 

We did rush 4 on the 4th and 11. I would have sent 6 at that yard line
 

Fleck said it was all on him, again.
 




Some Day...Maybe said:
I actually think this was one of the better coached games this season.
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Ah, no. For perhaps most of the first half up until the final drive, I don’t have much of an issue. But settling for a field goal there and not trying to get the first down, sums up everything that is wrong with Fleck. Leading the Big10 in field goals is not something we should be striving to do, yet Fleck intentionally takes the safest play 100% of the time to get that field goal, ignoring the fact that time and time again this strategy has bit him in the ass. Up until that final drive of the half, the offense looked, specifically Athan, looked pretty good to me. Athan looked confident. He was in a rhythm and was hitting receivers. We moved the ball and were successful in spite of our coach puckering and kicking a field goal. So, we get to the half with a 3 point lead and the offense looked good. What does our smarter than everyone else head coach do at halftime? He obviously interferes with the offensive coaches and the game plan. That wasn’t the same offense in the second half. We threw what, 3-4 passes in the second half. We were leading 17-14, not 28-0. This was not the time to go into a shell, abandon what we had done in the first half, and just run the ball. But Fleck can’t help himself. He interjects, Athan loses his rhythm, and confidence too perhaps, and we saw what happened.

And it’s not just the offense. On defense we have had breakdown after breakdown in cover 2 this year. The db’s are not consistent in their reads and it can certainly cause problems in the most crucial of situations, as evidenced by what happened Saturday. I’d argue that was the wrong coverage for that situation but hindsight is always 20/20. What I also don’t understand about Saturday, was why in the hell, on 4th and 11, with a cold QB coming off the bench, did we not bring the house and go after him. Make him throw the ball before he was ready. Had it been 4th and 20, ok, play the zone that you played, don’t let folks behind you and tackle the guy in front of you. But it was 4th and 11 and the zone left open areas and we gave the QB too much time to throw.

So I think this is mostly on the coaches. I don’t think the players can be excused for their poor execution. You can’t continue to drop wide open passes. You can’t continue to fumble. You can’t continue to throw 5 yard passes at 200 miles per hour to wide open receivers on easy plays that would win you games. But the coaches have to be better and PJ needs to leave his offensive coaches the hell alone. The SOB never learns. He should be 0-7 against Iowa because he coached that game the exact same way as the prior 6 losses. Any Iowa team from another year is capable of getting that final 30 yards and kicking a field goal to win the game. Thankfully, this Iowa offense is the worst in humanity allowing PJ to squeak out a win in spite of his stupidity. The only thing his ass should be doing is deciding whether or not to go for it on 4th down. Other than, stay the hell away from the offense.
 

Panthadad2 said:
You're wasting your time.
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I stand corrected on the two point conversion. Now please address the opening kickoff return and fumble, spotting Illinois seven points in a game we lost by one.

Do you believe Sean Tyler, with a history of fumbling including the first carry of the game a week earlier, just out of the blue decided on his own to field a kickoff at the goal line and return it?

Who made the decision for a few seasons to fair catch every kickoff no matter how deep or shallow? Was that based on Redding making the decision to go or fair catch? No, it was direct instructions from the head coach.

No one who understands PJ Fleck can believe for a second Tyler just decided on his own to return the kick against Illinois. He was sent out there with instructions to return it if he thought it was returnable.

Fleck put him back there and Fleck greenligted the return. Fleck made those decisions using the one guy on the team whose head was spinning because of all the fumbles this season. That stupid decision spotted Illinois seven points in a game we lost by one.
 

Dakota2 said:
I stand corrected on the two point conversion. Now please address the opening kickoff return and fumble, spotting Illinois seven points in a game we lost by one.

Do you believe Sean Tyler, with a history of fumbling including the first carry of the game a week earlier, just out of the blue decided on his own to field a kickoff at the goal line and return it?

Who made the decision for a few seasons to fair catch every kickoff no matter how deep or shallow? Was that based on Redding making the decision to go or fair catch? No, it was direct instructions from the head coach.

No one who understands PJ Fleck can believe for a second Tyler just decided on his own to return the kick against Illinois. He was sent out there with instructions to return it if he thought it was returnable.

Fleck put him back there and Fleck greenligted the return. Fleck made those decisions using the one guy on the team whose head was spinning because of all the fumbles this season. That stupid decision spotted Illinois seven points in a game we lost by one.
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This X 100. The coaches lost this game, not the players. Tyler is probably a very nice young man and will do great things in life but he fumbles. Why Fleck had him in a position to fumble near the goal line is confusing but he made that decision. He had to know Beleima would have the kicker kick it right to Tyler but Fleck made this mistake, a coaching mistake.
 

What's all this noise? Have some of the flock flipped? Oh well, the Purdue game is coming up.
Beat that stinking Boiler, Gopher. Get the flippers heads back into the boat
rowing and headed toward that showdown for the axe with the stinking Badger...not to mention a trip to the historic Horseshoe sandwiched in between those two high value games with the stinking Boiler and that stinking Badger.

The Gopher team has a LOT to play for! So, let 'em give it a go in Columbus and see how our Gopher team can do.

It's certainly no time for any fans in Fleck's flock to be flipping out...

Back this Gopher team down the stretch!
 
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walrus said:
What's all this noise? Have some of the flock flipped? Oh well, the Purdue game is coming up.
Beat that stinking Boiler, Gopher. Get the flippers heads back into the boat
rowing and headed toward that showdown for the axe with the stinking Badger...not to mention a trip to the historic Horseshoe sandwiched in between those two high value games with the stinking Boiler and that stinking Badger.

The Gopher team has a LOT to play for! So, let 'em give it a go in Columbus and see how our Gopher team can do.

It's certainly no time for any fans in Fleck's flock to be flipping out...

Back this Gopher team down the stretch!
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Not flipping, just need to get over it. Thanks for the encouragement and I will feel better if we beat Purdue.
 

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