Play-by-play review of passing plays vs. TCU

MinneStoa

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Hey guys. I was curious as to whether being at the game (in the absolutely incredibly atmosphere) clouded my judgment on Leidner's play, given how many people on this board are really down on him. I bet you're all really glad to have even more posts on this topic.

I used the game video from the link below, and included timestamps for each play.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUzTkiZBNec

Note: add "&t=__h__m__s" at the end of the URL to begin directly at that point. For example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUzTkiZBNec&t=2h12m02s will bring you to the 29th throw of the game

Drive #1
throw #1 1:24 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Nate Wozniak for 5 yds to the Minn 30
Overall, a very good play to start the season off with. Leidner looks off the DBs, and hits Woz right in the chest. This is obviously a play that they rehearsed a ton in practice, and it shows. Good timing and execution all around.

throw #2 2:30 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Eric Carter for 4 yds to the Minn 36 for a 1ST down
Pretty good timing between Leidner and Carter here. Hits Carter a little late after he makes his cut. Clean pass right at the numbers

throw #3 3:07 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Rodrick Williams Jr for 7 yds to the Minn 49 for a 1ST down
Fairly simple pass, but I like that Mitch doesn’t telegraph it. Leads Rodrick with a clean, catchable ball.

throw #4 5:10 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to KJ Maye
Bad pass. Throws a wobbler behind Maye. Can’t really fault Maye in not making the catch

Drive #2
fumble #1 16:50 sack fumble
DE gets by Lauer with no trouble at all. Mitch is winding up to throw as he’s hit. I don’t know how anyone in their right mind can blame Leidner for this play

Drive #3
throw #5 19:56 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Eric Carter for 4 yds to the Minn 24
Bad spiral and a bit low, but very catchable. Carter trips after his first step, otherwise may have gained a few more yards.

Drive #4
throw #6 28:01 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to KJ Maye
Had to put the ball high to get it over the LB. Ended up too high, but was a ball that you’d hope your SR receiver could catch

throw #7 28:40 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to KJ Maye
Once again, DE gets around Lauer with ease. Ball is basically uncatchable given where it’s placed, but even if caught, Maye would have been stopped about 4 yards shy of the 1st down marker.

Drive #5
throw #8 36:10 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to Rashad Still
Thows into tight double-coverage. I’m glad to see him err on the side of going too long rather than too short. Still, not a great decision here, and put too much on it.

Drive #6
throw #9 41m20s Mitch Leidner pass complete to KJ Maye for 36 yds to the TCU 24 for a 1ST down
Flea-flicker! Leidner FINALLY has time to throw. Lets the route develop, and puts the ball in a good spot where Maye can get to it. The ball flutters a bit, but that doesn’t affect the placement. Not a pretty play, but effective.

Drive #7
throw #10 46:43 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to Eric Carter, broken up by Ranthony Texada
Another instance where Leidner finally has some time to throw. The ball is very well placed to give Carter the best chance to come up with it while limiting the chance for a pick. There’s some flutter on the ball, but I think Carter makes that catch more often than not, despite the very tight defense. The ball hits Carter right in the hands, but the DB makes it tough.

throw #11 47:33 Mitch Leidner pass complete to KJ Maye for 8 yds to the TCU 43 for a 1ST down
Hits Maye at a good point in his route, once the safety has cleared out. Well thrown ball, hits Maye in the chest.

throw #12 48:59 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to Melvin Holland Jr, broken up by Nick Orr
Holland seems to begin jogging when he makes his cut. If he keeps running hard, he may be in for a touchdown. As it was, the DB can catch up to him and make a play. Leidner leads Holland beautifully with the throw (though there is some wobble), but the defender gets his arm around Holland and prevents the catch. Holland wants a PI call, and he may have a case. Either way, if he had been running his route hard, he could have avoided it.

throw #13 49:26 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to Rashad Still
Still runs a pretty good route and gets himself plenty open. A well-placed ball here would get us an easy first down. Leidner puts it right at Still’s feet, where he has no way of catching it. This one is objectively on Leidner

Drive #8
throw #14 1:11:29 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to Eric Carter MINNESOTA Penalty, Illegal Block (Jonah Pirsig) declined
Nicely thrown ball. Crisp, tight spiral, would have hit Carter right in the facemask if the defender hadn’t wrapped Carter up while the ball was in the air. In my mind, Pirsig’s penalty was shaky at best, and there should have been a PI call on the DB.

Drive #9
throw #15 1:24:27 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Eric Carter for 1 yd to the Minn 28
Well thrown ball to Carter. A bit low, but nothing to complain about. Wish Wolitarski could have set a better block. Carter doesn’t have much to work with.

throw #16 1:25:07 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Drew Wolitarsky for 30 yds to the TCU 42 for a 1ST down
Pretty much perfect. Leads Woli perfectly, which allows him to turn with the ball while still inbounds. Woli’s quick turn and Carter’s fantastic downfield blocking leads to a big play.

throw #17 1:25:51 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to Rodrick Williams Jr
Mitch looks downfield before checking down to Rodrick. Puts a beautiful little floater over the hands of the DE, and exactly where it needed to be for Rodrick to make a catch. Instead, Rodrick’s hands betray him and the pass is incomplete. Maye was already putting a good block on the DB, so if Rodrick had made the easy catch, he could have had a big gain.

throw #18 1:26:30 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Drew Wolitarsky for 3 yds to the TCU 34
Puts a bullet into Woli’s chest in heavy coverage. Fundamentally a very good pass, but would have liked to see something else. Instead of targeting Woli 2 yards short of the sticks, Lingen was wide open on the flat route. Leidner stared down Woli the whole time. It’s pretty obvious that he wasn’t going anywhere else, but I remember him getting better about this as the season progressed last year, so I’m not terribly concerned.

throw #19 1:28:07 Mitch Leidner pass complete to KJ Maye for 7 yds to the TCU 27 for a 1ST down
Throws off his back foot, as he begins to panic when seeing the pressure coming from the six rushers. Despite that, puts a well-thrown ball into a place where only Maye can get it. Maye makes a nice catch. Nice play all around.

Drive #10
throw #20 1:42:30 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Rashad Still for a loss of 1 yard to the Minn 34
Well-placed ball, but could have used more zip on it. Play is slow to develop, and Still can’t get to an open lane. As we saw in the first half, TCU’s defense is too quick for this type of screen to be very successful.

throw #21 1:43:05 Leidner, Mitch pass incomplete to Maye, KJ, PENALTY MINNESOTA pass interference (Maye, KJ) 15 yards to the MINNESOTA19, NO PLAY.
Just need to say, HORRIBLE offensive PI call on Maye. There were a handful of terrible calls in the game, but this one takes the cake.
Leidner throws a wobbler, but surprisingly it gets to where it needs to go. If Maye hadn’t been wrapped up by the DB, he likely would have come up with this ball. The pocket was collapsing, but Leidner has plenty of time and space to make this throw.

throw #22 1:45:18 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to KJ Maye
Unfortunately, the video feed here cuts directly from the promo shots to the game in mid-play. I don’t remember what the beginning of this play looked like, but Leidner puts a ball about a yard out of bounds. It looks like Maye might have had a shot at a perfectly-thrown ball, but even then, it would have been a hell of a catch. Would have liked to see a replay from a better angle though, to confirm what I’m seeing here.

Drive #11
fumble #2 1:52:38 Mitch Leidner sacked by Terrell Lathan for a loss of 4 yards to the Minn 1 Mitch Leidner fumbled, forced by Terrell Lathan, recovered by Minn Brian Bobek , return for 0 yards
This one’s tough. Multiple players come in relatively untouched. It looks like Mitch had at least one viable receiver option in Miles Thomas, but it would have been difficult to get the ball out to him. Ideally he would have thrown it away, but I can’t put this all on Mitch given how relentless the defense was on this play.

throw #23 1:55:51 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to Rashad Still
Leidner throws a pretty nice ball here, after being given a nice amount of time to get set. I’d have liked to see Still try to undercut the DB on this ball, but I think as he gets older and more experienced he’ll begin to be able to make that play. The ball wasn’t perfectly placed, but the DB had nice tight coverage. Overall I’m moderately happy with Leidner’s throw here.

Drive #12
throw #24 2:04:12Mitch Leidner pass complete to Rodney Smith for 3 yds to the Minn 33
Not much to analyze here. Leidner makes the simple swing pass. Hits Smith right in the hands, though there was a slight wobble on the ball. Wish Woli could have made a better block to allow Smith a chance to make a move.

throw #25 2:05:01 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete, broken up by Terrell Lathan
For seemingly the tenth time in the game, the DE gets by the LT (Pirsig, in this case) without so much as being touched. Leidner begins to step up into the pocket, but would have liked to see another step from him. He gets hit as he throws and the ball sails. It’s tough to tell who he was targeting here, but it may have been Wozniak. Can’t put too much blame on Leidner here, as it pretty much rests on Pirsig.

throw #26 2:05:30 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Eric Carter for 16 yds to the TCU 48 for a 1ST down
Very nicely placed ball here, threaded between a couple defenders. Not a picture-perfect spiral, but any WR who isn’t able to catch a ball like that should not be playing D1. Thankfully, Carter shows that he deserves to play D1. I’m not thrilled that Mitch was locked onto Carter the whole way, and I’d love to see him learn to look off defenders. Though given how many pro QBs are incapable of doing that, it’s probably not going to happen.

throw #27 2:05:37 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to Nate Wozniak
Leidner puts it a couple feet above Woz’s head. Not a trivial ball to catch, but one that you’d hope that a receiver can make. I think Woz will learn to make that catch in the coming years. Still, Leidner should have thrown a better ball. Not his worst throw of the game, but should have been better.

throw #28 2:07:58 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to Rashad Still, broken up by Ranthony Texada
Mitch puts the ball pretty significantly short here. Still had no shot at the ball, as the defender made a good play. If Mitch had put the ball ahead of Still, there would have been at least a small chance for him to come down with it, though the defender had a step on him.

Drive #13
throw #29 2:12:02 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Drew Wolitarsky for 14 yds to the Minn 23 for a 1ST down
Nice ball, put directly into Woli’s numbers. Maybe my favorite part about this throw is the timing. Leidner hits Woli right as he turns and presents his hands. This is the kind of timing I’d love to see more of as the season goes on. Woli does a great job of making a defender miss, and gains a handful of extra yards as a result.

throw #30 2:13:40 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Brandon Lingen for 16 yds to the TCU 49 for a 1ST down
Both DE’s come in hard here. Mitch doesn’t have much time to throw, and you can tell he feels the pressure as he releases the ball. It comes out with a bit of wobble, but in a location that only Lingen can get to. Nice job of threading the ball through defenders.

throw #31 2:14:17 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Rashad Still for 5 yds to the TCU 38 for a 1ST down
Once again, nothing special here, but a well-executed play. Mitch puts a nice throw right in Still’s hands, and Still can just fall across the first down marker.

throw #32 2:14:55 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Rashad Still for 10 yds to the TCU 22 for a 1ST down
Leidner shows pretty good timing here with Still. The ball leaves Leidner’s hand right as Still is making his turn. The ball is thrown well, with enough zip on it to get to Still before the defenders can converge. It hits Still right in the hands, and he can easily get out of bounds to stop the clock.

throw #33 2:15:33 Mitch Leidner pass complete to KJ Maye for 22 yds for a TD, (Ryan Santoso KICK)
You can see Leidner check his options here, which is encouraging. He goes through a couple options before finding Maye up the middle. He puts a bit of a wobbler over the referee’s head, and it ends up a bit behind Maye’s trajectory. Originally I thought it was worse than it was, and the more I watch this pass the more I realize it was only about a foot behind where it should have been. While not an easy ball to catch, its another one of those that your most experienced receiver should make on a consistent basis. Maye makes the catch for an easy TD.

Drive #14
throw #34 2:24:04 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to KJ Maye
In my eyes, there looks to have been some miscommunication here. It looks like Leidner was expecting Maye to cut back toward the center of the field. By the time Maye’s head turns around, he barely has time to make a play on the ball. As it stands, the ball is under-thrown, and lands at Maye’s feet.

throw #35 2:24:34 Mitch Leidner pass incomplete to Rodrick Williams Jr, broken up by Chris Bradley
Somewhat similar to a play earlier in the game where Leidner lofted over a defender’s hands and right into Rodrick’s (who then dropped it); except Leidner doesn’t get enough arc on the ball here. If he had gotten the ball over the defender (and if Rodrick could have figured out how to catch it), we would have had an easy first down. Bad throw by Leidner, but one that he’s shown he’s capable of making on a regular basis.

throw #36 2:25:14 Mitch Leidner pass complete to Rodrick Williams Jr for 7 yds to the Minn 27
This is maybe the first time I’ve ever seen Leidner pump fake. The pocket collapses quickly, and when pressure arrives, Leidner makes the correct play and shovels the ball to Rodrick. Rodrick probably should have been able to get to the sideline, but he’s unable and the clock winds down to 0.

In Summary:
I see five passes that I consider to be "bad" (4, 5, 13, 28, 35) and five that I consider to be "not good" (8, 22, 23, 27, 34). Ten sub-par passes out of 36 leads to 72% of passes that I felt were good, including many that I though were excellent. There were also a handful of throws that I thought should have been caught (6, 12, 17, 27) and could have been caught (10, 14, 22, 34).

Given the holes in the Offensive Line and how easily TCU's defensive ends were able to get to the QB, I'm sticking by my original take: Leidner played a decent game, which was pretty much what I was expecting going into the matchup. Not great, not bad. He definitely wasn't the worst piece in the offense, and didn't really make any bad decisions in my eyes; but there are definite areas for improvement. Luckily this was the first game of the year against a very, very good defense. I am not worried about him.

I think the most interesting piece of information I gleaned from this re-watch is that it appears as if Leidner's wobbly balls were in general a bit more accurate than the balls thrown with a tight spiral. It's something I'm going to want to pay attention to going forward.
 

Good analysis. Going to disagree with you on throw #9. Maye had two guys beat, but had to come back for the ball. A good pass there is a TD. The first image was as soon as Maye comes into the screen when the ball is in the air, the second is where he had to come back to in order to catch it.

A lot of people have complained about drops, but when the balls are coming at you wobbly the QB has to get part of that blame. Throw a spiral, and drop it, then it's squarely on the receiver. That one play where Carter went deep, whatever was going on with the ball confused both the defender and Carter. Griese commented on this too.

Maye1.jpgMaye2.jpg
 

Awesome post, thanks for putting in all that work! All in all, Mitch played OK in my book. OK QB play won't beat the #2 team in the country, but it should get this team pretty far in the big ten. On the plus side, Mitch seemed to be making good reads and a lot of his passes were getting where they needed to. If he could just figure out how to through a damn spiral consistently I think he could be pretty good this year.
 

Great post. To make things easier for everyone I copied and pasted the entire post into a YouTube comment with the timestamps included. Go to YouTube, find the comments, and click on the timestamps and it will take you directly to that point in the video for each throw.
 

The comment helped. Watching the throws again made me sad, though.
 


You guys did all this work for us? Or for you? Sheesh! That's quite an effort and I really appreciate you taking the time to analyze and express your opinions.

In your opinion, MinneStoa, four incompletes "should have been caught." That would have made Mitch 23-35 (65.7%) for well over 200 yards with one TD and no picks.

The ducks he throws and the dirt balls and overthrows are also a bit uncomfortable, but overall I think he's much improved and is going to have a great season.
 

Thanks for the Work, Stoa. As I said on another thread, my feeling based on watching the games is that Leidner does his best work when the offense is functioning in rhythm. I would respectfully say that Leidner is not a good improviser (IMHO). When the play starts to break down, some QB's have the natural ability to improvise and make a bad play into a good play. Leidner just does not seem to have that same ability. That does not make him a bad QB - it just means he's not a great QB.
 

This takes backing up your opinion with data to a whole new level. Thanks Stoa, for the effort and insight.
 




Let's remember, ML may throw a lot of ducks, but these WRs have been practicing catching these ducks since last march.
They're used to it. The 'ol adage goes, if it hits your hands, you can catch it. KR's catch balls going end over end, no more
excuses.
 

This is an excellent breakdown.

It's obvious that the gopher coaching staff had to spend a lot of time game planning for Boykin. How much time do you think that the TCU coaches had to spend game planning for Leidner? I doubt that they regarded him as much of a threat.

It's undeniable that there were some dropped balls and 028 is right when he says that the receivers should be used to catching Leidner's ducks by now. It's also undeniable that the gophers have a slow footed quarterback who throws a lot of ducks in an increasingly fast game. With rare exceptions (Manning, Brady) slow quarterbacks don't work anymore. Injuries on the offensive line compound Leidner's lack of speed and elusiveness. Leidner will do fine against weak opponents and second division B1G teams. He's too slow and inaccurate to serve the team against the top opponents. If Croft is the real deal, the minute the coaches think he's ready (next week or next year) he needs to play because it's not fair to the rest of the team.
 

This is an excellent breakdown.

It's obvious that the gopher coaching staff had to spend a lot of time game planning for Boykin. How much time do you think that the TCU coaches had to spend game planning for Leidner? I doubt that they regarded him as much of a threat.

It's undeniable that there were some dropped balls and 028 is right when he says that the receivers should be used to catching Leidner's ducks by now. It's also undeniable that the gophers have a slow footed quarterback who throws a lot of ducks in an increasingly fast game. With rare exceptions (Manning, Brady) slow quarterbacks don't work anymore. Injuries on the offensive line compound Leidner's lack of speed and elusiveness. Leidner will do fine against weak opponents and second division B1G teams. He's too slow and inaccurate to serve the team against the top opponents. If Croft is the real deal, the minute the coaches think he's ready (next week or next year) he needs to play because it's not fair to the rest of the team.
If it were only as simple as comparing Leidner and Boykin, Julian Huff wouldn't have played DE for us. Contrary to a popular belief, football isn't all about measurables. Intangible attributes like leadership, command, and toughness cannot be discounted without failing to grasp the complicated mix of what determines winners.
 

This is an excellent breakdown.

It's obvious that the gopher coaching staff had to spend a lot of time game planning for Boykin. How much time do you think that the TCU coaches had to spend game planning for Leidner? I doubt that they regarded him as much of a threat.

It's undeniable that there were some dropped balls and 028 is right when he says that the receivers should be used to catching Leidner's ducks by now. It's also undeniable that the gophers have a slow footed quarterback who throws a lot of ducks in an increasingly fast game. With rare exceptions (Manning, Brady) slow quarterbacks don't work anymore. Injuries on the offensive line compound Leidner's lack of speed and elusiveness. Leidner will do fine against weak opponents and second division B1G teams. He's too slow and inaccurate to serve the team against the top opponents. If Croft is the real deal, the minute the coaches think he's ready (next week or next year) he needs to play because it's not fair to the rest of the team.

That is a lot of words to say "if someone is ready and better then that person before them they should play"? Just want to make sure I summarized that correctly.
 



Thanks for all the work. It certainly helps to see the details instead of just the emotional reactions by the fans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

If it were only as simple as comparing Leidner and Boykin, Julian Huff wouldn't have played DE for us. Contrary to a popular belief, football isn't all about measurables. Intangible attributes like leadership, command, and toughness cannot be discounted without failing to grasp the complicated mix of what determines winners.

All of the intangibles in the world don't mean much if you don't have talent.
 


Great post. To make things easier for everyone I copied and pasted the entire post into a YouTube comment with the timestamps included. Go to YouTube, find the comments, and click on the timestamps and it will take you directly to that point in the video for each throw.

Awesome, thanks for doing that! Really helpful!
 

Good analysis. Going to disagree with you on throw #9. Maye had two guys beat, but had to come back for the ball. A good pass there is a TD. The first image was as soon as Maye comes into the screen when the ball is in the air, the second is where he had to come back to in order to catch it.

Looking back on it again, you're absolutely right. If that ball had been put a few yards farther in front, Maye could have been gone.
 


All of the intangibles in the world don't mean much if you don't have talent.

Precisely. You're starting to grasp the concept that our coaching staff embraces and the foundation they have built their careers and this program upon. All of the talent in the world doesn't mean much if you don't have intangibles.
 




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