PJ Fleck, Gophers Have Turned in Multiple Rival Schools for Tampering

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MplsGopher said:
@WashedGoph thanks for correcting me. I was wrong. And learned something new!

There must be some other legal word for when a person says something is true because they observed it in the first-person but no other evidence exists supporting the claim, so there is no way to prove if the person is telling the truth or lying.
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Lawyers often informally call it a "he-said-she-said" (assuming the other party affirmatively denies the alleged conduct). If an accusation is laid, and the other party just clams up, neither affirming or denying the alleged conduct, you might call it "uncontested testimony." If you want to go a little more formal, you could go with "uncorroborated testimony."
 



technically, Fleck has every right to report other schools for tampering.

but I think this runs afoul of the old "unwritten rules." a lot of head coaches complain about tampering, but many of them do not take any direct action. it's just not how things are done.

because if you complain about School X, then School X may complain about you.

and as others have noted, the trick is proving it. I read the relevant section of the NCAA rulebook, and it had a full page of notes dealing with what type of evidence and what amount of evidence was needed to corroborate any report of tampering.

so if a coach is going to report tampering, they had better be prepared to back that up with solid evidence and/or testimony.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
but I think this runs afoul of the old "unwritten rules." a lot of head coaches complain about tampering, but many of them do not take any direct action. it's just not how things are done.
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This thought process is what allows the tampering to go on in the first place. The only way it stops is if the teams that are being tampered with are willing to turn in the ones doing the tampering.

If teams know they can do it and nobody will say anything then they will just keep on doing it.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
technically, Fleck has every right to report other schools for tampering.

but I think this runs afoul of the old "unwritten rules." a lot of head coaches complain about tampering, but many of them do not take any direct action. it's just not how things are done.

because if you complain about School X, then School X may complain about you.

and as others have noted, the trick is proving it. I read the relevant section of the NCAA rulebook, and it had a full page of notes dealing with what type of evidence and what amount of evidence was needed to corroborate any report of tampering.

so if a coach is going to report tampering, they had better be prepared to back that up with solid evidence and/or testimony.
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Odds are both coaches would not be tampering with each others players. Like KSU was tampering with Ky Thomas, but I doubt we were trying to pull any KSU guys illegally.
 


Gophergrandpa said:
Lawyers often informally call it a "he-said-she-said" (assuming the other party affirmatively denies the alleged conduct). If an accusation is laid, and the other party just clams up, neither affirming or denying the alleged conduct, you might call it "uncontested testimony." If you want to go a little more formal, you could go with "uncorroborated testimony."
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There are frickin texts………
 

short ornery norwegian said:
technically, Fleck has every right to report other schools for tampering.

but I think this runs afoul of the old "unwritten rules." a lot of head coaches complain about tampering, but many of them do not take any direct action. it's just not how things are done.

because if you complain about School X, then School X may complain about you.

and as others have noted, the trick is proving it. I read the relevant section of the NCAA rulebook, and it had a full page of notes dealing with what type of evidence and what amount of evidence was needed to corroborate any report of tampering.

so if a coach is going to report tampering, they had better be prepared to back that up with solid evidence and/or testimony.
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So coaches that are having there rosters cherry picked by teams that are not following their side of the Gentleman’s agreement should just stay quiet about it?
 




Coaches recruit other players in the handshake lines today
 

WoodburyTim said:
They probably wouldn’t text, tweet, email, or leave any voicemails. You can always deny later what was said in a phone conversation.
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You have experience in this?
 




WoodburyTim said:
They probably wouldn’t text, tweet, email, or leave any voicemails. You can always deny later what was said in a phone conversation.
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Sure. But someone involved with another team shouldn't be contacting a player on another team directly unless there is a really good reason to do so. I think phone records of a call would be enough to prove some improper contact. Especially if the player in question had some specific info about the call.

But knowing how shady and under the table things have been in the past....they could probably hide those types of contacts through burner numbers if they really wanted to keep doing this stuff. On the other hand....if a player wanted to report this kind of behavior....no reason why they couldn't record the calls. Smart phones make stuff like that very easy.
 

we know that players on other rosters are being contacted. assuming that head coaches are not stupid enough to call players directly, then the contacts are taking place through 3rd parties - friends, former teammates, relatives - anyone who knows the player well enough to get in touch with them and pass along a message.

and the message doesn't have to be "hey, transfer to School X and you'll get $$$$$." players know what's going on. so all the message has to be is something like "boy, School X could sure use another RB/WR. I could put you in touch with someone if you're interested....."
 

short ornery norwegian said:
we know that players on other rosters are being contacted. assuming that head coaches are not stupid enough to call players directly, then the contacts are taking place through 3rd parties - friends, former teammates, relatives - anyone who knows the player well enough to get in touch with them and pass along a message.

and the message doesn't have to be "hey, transfer to School X and you'll get $$$$$." players know what's going on. so all the message has to be is something like "boy, School X could sure use another RB/WR. I could put you in touch with someone if you're interested....."
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It'd depend on who was making the contact and exactly what was being offered, if anything. Again....even someone who isn't on staff could have some involvement around the program. Coaches can play dumb....but it's their job along with the AD to make sure that people in the programs orbit aren't making contact at all. The NCAA needs to put down the thought that playing dumb is a defense. Improper recruiting tactics should be penalized....or at the very least....be given warnings for if it continues.
 

alchemy2u said:
There are frickin texts………
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I’m sure there are texts but they probably don’t say things like “if you transfer to [school] you’ll play in every game and we’ll get you $250k NIL next year! 😜 - coach [head coach’s name]”
 


clemsonwire.usatoday.com

Dabo Swinney says the problem isn't the transfer portal; it is tampering

Dabo Swinney doesn’t believe the transfer portal is the issue, but tampering is.
clemsonwire.usatoday.com clemsonwire.usatoday.com
“The portal is not the problem. The NIL is not the problem. The problem is tampering. That is the problem. That is the problem in college football and that can be fixed easy to if they would let football people fix it. We do not usually get a vote on that. That is the biggest challenge we are dealing with, is that aspect of it,” Swinney said.
 

stocker08 said:
Sure. But someone involved with another team shouldn't be contacting a player on another team directly unless there is a really good reason to do so. I think phone records of a call would be enough to prove some improper contact. Especially if the player in question had some specific info about the call.

But knowing how shady and under the table things have been in the past....they could probably hide those types of contacts through burner numbers if they really wanted to keep doing this stuff. On the other hand....if a player wanted to report this kind of behavior....no reason why they couldn't record the calls. Smart phones make stuff like that very easy.
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I would guess a phone call to a friend or family member works as well. And let’s remember these arent legal proceedings so let’s say Darius Taylor could say, hey look I got a call from a phone number associated with a Michigan number and the other side denies it and that is that. The Big 10 or NCAA can’t subpoena anyone or anything.
 


WoodburyTim said:
I would guess a phone call to a friend or family member works as well. And let’s remember these arent legal proceedings so let’s say Darius Taylor could say, hey look I got a call from a phone number associated with a Michigan number and the other side denies it and that is that. The Big 10 or NCAA can’t subpoena anyone or anything.
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Right. No criminal complaints or anything like that. But if certain teams start getting multiple allegations.....the NCAA would probably step in. Of course.....that would depend on what kind of proof they had.
 

Donovan said:
clemsonwire.usatoday.com

Dabo Swinney says the problem isn't the transfer portal; it is tampering

Dabo Swinney doesn’t believe the transfer portal is the issue, but tampering is.
clemsonwire.usatoday.com clemsonwire.usatoday.com
“The portal is not the problem. The NIL is not the problem. The problem is tampering. That is the problem. That is the problem in college football and that can be fixed easy to if they would let football people fix it. We do not usually get a vote on that. That is the biggest challenge we are dealing with, is that aspect of it,” Swinney said.
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Totally disagree with him. Both NIL and the portal are ruining college football. There is no longer any loyalty to any school. It’s all about $$$$—and it is so obvious. Something has to be done and soon —or college football will be unrecognizable. You may as well turn college football into semi-pro league for the NFL.
 

MplsGopher said:
@WashedGoph thanks for correcting me. I was wrong. And learned something new!

There must be some other legal word for when a person says something is true because they observed it in the first-person but no other evidence exists supporting the claim, so there is no way to prove if the person is telling the truth or lying.
Click to expand...
There is a word for it. Eye witness testimony.
 

Sure.

I should have realized that simple obvious truth: if you’re under oath, you must be telling the truth and therefore that is simply evidence.

What’s a world. Carry on
 

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