PJ channeling Glen Mason?

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Up until this season I felt comfortable that if PJ Fleck team had a lead late in a game they would hang on to it. This year the Northwestern and Illinois game have brought back memories of the classic collapses of the Mason years. Those are not memories anyone wants to relive
 

Agree - but it is year 7 and they’re a young team - huh? - ive been stewing on this loss and can’t put my finger on it - players? Coaches? All of the above I guess - but not getting off the field on third down has Mason era written all over it.
 

Multiple epic collapses quickly put a coach on the hot seat. Epic collapses lead to immediate fan apathy which hurts the program. I think Mason got some leeway because he turned around an absolutely awful program and came up with a handful of unexpected upsets over the years. PJ has had very few big upsets but has also avoided the epic collapse until this year. I don't like it, but this could be the beginning of the end if some big wins don't happen soon.
 

Illinois was a weird one - if the starting QB for IL had finished the game, Gophers probably win. Instead, a super-human gets off the bench (a sixth year senior) throws three incredible passes, goes 85 yards and scores with 50 seconds left. You couldn't make that up - it's a movie scenario.
 

holereader said:
Agree - but it is year 7 and they’re a young team - huh? - ive been stewing on this loss and can’t put my finger on it - players? Coaches? All of the above I guess - but not getting off the field on third down has Mason era written all over it.
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Especially third and one.
 



Great Plains Gopher said:
Illinois was a weird one - if the starting QB for IL had finished the game, Gophers probably win. Instead, a super-human gets off the bench (a sixth year senior) throws three incredible passes, goes 85 yards and scores with 50 seconds left. You couldn't make that up - it's a movie scenario.
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very few - if any - other teams in the nation would have decided not to try to put pressure on a cold QB coming into the game in that situation. He succeeded just like Altmeyer succeeded earlier - when they were given time to pick apart soft coverage, hell even a HSJV QB could have picked us apart. He succeeded because we failed, period.
 


I used the term "Glen Masoned" to describe those 2 losses to an old friend from the service that was asking about the Gophers season. It just feels a lot like those years. Everything is within the Gophers grasp, only to blow it inepic fashion.
 



GopherRob said:
Did Mason ever have the Pig and Axe in the trophy case at the same time?
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This is so dumb. Mason beat both of them, multiple times. In fact, he beat Iowa the first four years he played against them. PJ has yet to beat them both in the same year, the schedule just fell such that he has the Pig and Axe at the same time. Let's hope this is the year.

If the schedule would have fallen this same way for Mason he would have had them at the same time a couple of times, with the first time being when he beat Iowa in 2000 and WI in 2001. I think it's dumb to denigrate any past coach. Mason did a lot for the program, with some amazing wins, fun seasons like 2003, and ultimately elevating it from a terrible place.

Yes, PJ has beaten Wisconsin, and that's more about them regressing back to the pack than elevating the program. Iowa had to have a historically bad offense for PJ to beat them. He has us right about where the program was when he inherited it. Yes, he had 2019 which was fun. However, when you look at it he only beat one good team during the regular season in Penn State. He has done nothing close to that season since. He really has led an average program and I don't know why that is so hard to acknowledge. If you are in the West for seven years and can never win it, that is about as average as you can be as the West is about as mediocre in that time as possible. There hasn't been a great team in the West since PJ has been here.

Despite that I don't want him fired. I don't think starting over is the answer. I also think a firing is inevitable in the future if PJ doesn't adapt his coaching.
 


I think it is funny we go back to mason forgetting disasters by the 3 coaches in between.
 




Ope3 said:
Horton never blew any big leads. Also defeated Illinois and won the Floyd of Rosedale in his only opportunity.
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True. I was more thinking of the Michigan debacle or the liedner 4 interceptions in the 4th quarter Wisconsin game


Blowing games that should’ve been wins isn’t exclusive to mason. Or fleck.
 

Some guy said:
True. I was more thinking of the Michigan debacle or the liedner 4 interceptions in the 4th quarter Wisconsin game


Blowing games that should’ve been wins isn’t exclusive to mason. Or fleck.
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I wouldn't even classify yesterday as a "should've been win." Sure, they could've won.

However:
- Game was back and forth throughout with 8 lead changes/ties before Illni took the lead for good.
- Spotted Illinois 7 pts by fumbling the opening kickoff and allowing a TD on 3rd and long.
- Gophers were out gained and lost Time of Possession.
- Never were up 2 scores.
- After forcing a TO early in the 3rd well into the Red Zone could only get 3 pts.

Sure they had a golden chance to snatch a win after the Nubin INT, including a 4th and long but this wasn't a "classic meltdown" or losing a game where they dominated throughout.

They were outplayed. Quite frankly I find that more depressing.
 

Had the Mase 2006 Team beaten Texas Tech even by 1 point he would have been at the U for multiple years. There was grumbling in the land but that loss...completely the result of a defensive collapse...did him in.

The Gophers' performance under Coach Fleck is nowhere near what was seen once the 'cruts on D were all Glen's. There was a chance with David Gibbs but he did not stay. The Gophers could score but more often than not could not hold it. It was hard to watch many, many times.

That offered, the challenges we're seeing under Coach Fleck are clearly influenced by his overall philosophy and game plan., which requires a very capable D to hold on when the offense sputters. When that D fails, and as a mid-tier program the D will come up short, it is not pretty.

Even when two tortoises race one will eventually win. Take a nap while the race is on but losing still sucks when one pulls into its shell in the home stretch. That be us at times.
 

Ope3 said:
I wouldn't even classify yesterday as a "should've been win." Sure, they could've won.

However:
- Game was back and forth throughout with 8 lead changes/ties before Illni took the lead for good.
- Spotted Illinois 7 pts by fumbling the opening kickoff and allowing a TD on 3rd and long.
- Gophers were out gained and lost Time of Possession.
- Never were up 2 scores.
- After forcing a TO early in the 3rd well into the Red Zone could only get 3 pts.

Sure they had a golden chance to snatch a win after the Nubin INT, including a 4th and long but this wasn't a "classic meltdown" or losing a game where they dominated throughout.

They were outplayed. Quite frankly I find that more depressing.
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Yeah. I am less upset about this year game to game than 2021 and 2022 because the gophers simply aren’t very good.

They could be in contention for the division and I guess technically still are because the division is historically bad.

Probably 3 teams from the 2019 big ten west would go 7-0 against the 2023 big ten west.

I think 4 2021 teams go 7-0 against 2023 big ten west.

I’m down because we aren’t very good this year. I’m not down because we blew it. We are a mediocre team. Really hard for mediocre teams to win all the time against other mediocre teams.
 

BilldGopher said:
Had the Mase 2006 Team beaten Texas Tech even by 1 point he would have been at the U for multiple years.
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Maybe. Had NDSU made that field goal mason wouldn’t have survived to the Iowa game.
BilldGopher said:
There was grumbling in the land but that loss...completely the result of a defensive collapse...did him in.

The Gophers' performance under Coach Fleck is nowhere near what was seen once the 'cruts on D were all Glen's. There was a chance with David Gibbs but he did not stay. The Gophers could score but more often than not could not hold it. It was hard to watch many, many times.

That offered, the challenges we're seeing under Coach Fleck are clearly influenced by his overall philosophy and game plan., which requires a very capable D to hold on when the offense sputters. When that D fails, and as a mid-tier program the D will come up short, it is not pretty.

Even when two tortoises race one will eventually win. Take a nap while the race is on but losing still sucks when one pulls into its shell in the home stretch. That be us at times.
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Mason was fighting with admin. It wasn’t going to end well. Similar to when the hockey coach used U facilities for a Notre dame fund raiser. Both coaches touting other universities was a point of contention.
 

Some guy said:
Maybe. Had NDSU made that field goal mason wouldn’t have survived to the Iowa game.
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Had the Bison made that FG (and Mason survived) the Gophers wouldn't have even been eligible, thus wouldn't have had the nightmare collapse in Bowl.

The win over NDSU got them to 3-5 and Minnesota was routed by the Buckeyes the following week.

They had to run the table against Indiana, Michigan St (away) and Iowa, but somehow turned it around punching their ticket to Tempe. The looked good doing it and carried it into the 1st half vs Texas Tech.

Odd how things work out sometimes.
 

Ope3 said:
Had the Bison made that FG (and Mason survived) the Gophers wouldn't have even been eligible, thus wouldn't have had the nightmare collapse in Bowl.

The win over NDSU got them to 3-5 and Minnesota was routed by the Buckeyes the following week.

They had to run the table against Indiana, Michigan St (away) and Iowa, but somehow turned it around punching their ticket to Tempe. The looked good doing it and carried it into the 1st half vs Texas Tech.

Odd how things work out sometimes.
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Yeah so what I’m saying is I think 2-6 mason gets let go after the Ohio state game when it made them 2-7

Maturi at the end of the season decided not to let him go. So he should’ve stuck with that for another year. Made no sense.


Like the tubby firing. That made sense. People can disagree with the choice, but at least The AD decided to let him go and didn’t let one game away his decision.

I think Maturi let one game change his decision multiple times!
 

Tucker32 said:
This is so dumb. Mason beat both of them, multiple times. In fact, he beat Iowa the first four years he played against them. PJ has yet to beat them both in the same year, the schedule just fell such that he has the Pig and Axe at the same time.
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Glen Mason's inaugural season with Minnesota in 1997, the Gophers lost to Iowa 31-0 at Iowa City.

Their only win in the Big 10 was against Indiana.
 

At least Mason's collapses came against real teams. Michigan, Wisc, Mich State, etc.

When we played a bad team under Glen when our roster was ready, we hammered them and that was that. I love PJ, but he inexplicably loses 1-2 games each year to bottom feeders and I flat out don't understand it. It has kept us from playing in the BT championship more than once.
 

Go Gophs said:
At least Mason's collapses came against real teams. Michigan, Wisc, Mich State, etc.

When we played a bad team under Glen when our roster was ready, we hammered them and that was that. I love PJ, but he inexplicably loses 1-2 games each year to bottom feeders and I flat out don't understand it. It has kept us from playing in the BT championship more than once.
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Generally correct. Roster's ready aside, Mason's team lost to Hawaii, Houston, a 2-9 Indiana team, a 4-7 Indiana, Ohio University, a 3-8 Indiana, Ragin' Cajuns, a 3-8 Indiana and a 6-5 Virginia in a game where they were favored by 7.5 and ahead at the half by 11. That last loss cost him his job.

Not gonna go back and look but think his best finish in the Big Ten was tying for 4th.

​

 

Until he stands there with his hands on his knees smiling while he watches the team continually blow games I won’t compare PJ to grinning Glen.
 

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