Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) Informational Session

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I got an email for a webinar from the U about:

an educational session for donors and season ticket holders on NCAA rule changes associated with Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL).

Hosting this educational session is Deputy Athletics Director/Senior Woman Administrator Julie Manning, Director of Compliance Jeremiah Carter and additional members of Gopher Athletics' senior administrative staff. Hear what steps Gopher Athletics has taken to position itself within this new era of college athletics.

I signed up. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say / have planned.

 

[HitMeAgainIAmStillMoving]

I got an email for a webinar from the U about:



I signed up. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say / have planned.

Interesting. Will be looking for your update post. I am sure you read abut the Miami guy who is giving every football player $500 a month. Portal is fair and NIL is fair but wow what a change.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Notes from the zoom meeting (these are sort of random notes so don't read too much into them):

• Julie Manning is the point person for NIL at the department (among others).
• Licensing and marketing folks involved to maintain brand standards, etc.
• NIL work at the U has been planning for two years.
• U has met with athletes regarding NIL.
• Reaching out to local businesses, sponsors, donors regarding NIL opportunities.
• State doesn't have a policy regarding NIL, that means they only have to follow the NCAA guidance and no additional rules in place by state. Advantage?
• Can't use NIL payments as recruiting promise / inducement". If you come to MN you'll get X for NIL." (NCAA rule)
• Athletes can hire someone to help with NIL opportunities.
• Athletes can run their own instruction / camps and charge a fee for it.
• Athletes can charge for speaking fees, appearance fees. Musicians, authors, artists, apparel ... also permissible.
• Can charge for autographs but not during a school event (after game autographs, can't charge for that).
• Athlete can buy school gear, sign it, sell it. Can't sell school gear that they were given by the school.
• The school can't arrange events with appearance fees and etc. (Example, someone says "give me 15 athletes to show up at my store").
• The U won't allow (some of these are also NCAA rules too): No adult entertainment, sports gambling, illegal substances, etc.
• U policy won't allow students to miss practice, travel or etc to make an NIL appearance.
• NCAA requires a student holding a camp at the U to pay going rate for using facilities.
• Student can't use U logos and etc in their NIL activity.
• Students can only be paid 'going rate' and only for work performed.
• No compensation for athletic performance (extra money for awards, etc.) (but that could change 'market rate')
• The U itself can't pay students for NIL activity , for appearing on posters, or etc (NCAA rule)
• International students might not be able to do NIL activity because of visa rules in some situations.
• NIL payments impact income and may impact need based assistance.
• Students are required to disclose their NIL activity to the U to ensure NCAA compliance.
• Anyone interested in an NIL opportunity CAN contact the U to talk about rules and etc.
• Can't hire students to be on your softball team "as a ringer"
• Can hire high school students as NIL regardless of where they go ... but can't use it as an inducement...
• Dude asked a question from his hammock. Awesome!
• "Going rate" has not been established / defined... so who knows.
• The U has an app that they upload images or videos to (say an image from a photo shoot) that goes direct to the student's phone, and the student can then post it to social media from the app (they're not paid for it, can't use it with NIL content or with a sponsored post, it was mentioned in passing and I thought that was cool).

I had to drop off the call early to take my son to camp so not sure what clarifications or what else happened in the latter half of the call

Overall it was a great breakdown of the process and details from the U. Hopefully they make the zoom recording available later.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I predict this is going to be the toughest one to enforce/monitor:

• Students can only be paid 'going rate' and only for work performed.

In theory, this would prevent some fat-cat booster from paying players a ridiculous amount of money - say $100,000 to show up at the car lot for one appearance.

but again, who is monitoring this? Who is going to try and keep track of what every D1 athlete in the country is doing?

And who monitors possible violations tied to recruiting? You know d*mn well that schools are going to try and work around this by finding ways to let potential recruits know about lucrative NIL opportunities IF they choose School X.

 

[Taji34]

I predict this is going to be the toughest one to enforce/monitor:

• Students can only be paid 'going rate' and only for work performed.

In theory, this would prevent some fat-cat booster from paying players a ridiculous amount of money - say $100,000 to show up at the car lot for one appearance.

but again, who is monitoring this? Who is going to try and keep track of what every D1 athlete in the country is doing?

And who monitors possible violations tied to recruiting? You know d*mn well that schools are going to try and work around this by finding ways to let potential recruits know about lucrative NIL opportunities IF they choose School X.

I mean, they aren't getting paid cash right? Surely athletes will pretty much need to hire someone to handle all the paperwork and tax stuff that comes along with this. Unless that entity is in on it to, that is at least one person who could report a violation like that.

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

• The U has an app that they upload images or videos to (say an image from a photo shoot) that goes direct to the student's phone, and the student can then post it to social media from the app (they're not paid for it, can't use it with NIL content or with a sponsored post, it was mentioned in passing and I thought that was cool).

Thanks for the thorough recap! They have been using this app for awhile. The idea is that they allow the student-athletes to use the photos, which include them participating in their sports wearing University logos, in non-sponsored posts to build up their numbers of followers. The larger number of followers increases what they can get for their NIL in sponsored posts (which can't include the University logos, game action, etc.)

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I predict this is going to be the toughest one to enforce/monitor:

• Students can only be paid 'going rate' and only for work performed.

In theory, this would prevent some fat-cat booster from paying players a ridiculous amount of money - say $100,000 to show up at the car lot for one appearance.

but again, who is monitoring this? Who is going to try and keep track of what every D1 athlete in the country is doing?

And who monitors possible violations tied to recruiting? You know d*mn well that schools are going to try and work around this by finding ways to let potential recruits know about lucrative NIL opportunities IF they choose School X.

The U noted that students have to report their NIL activity to the U.

They didn't explicitly say it but I wonder if that is an NCAA rule. If so... then there you go as far as the information goes.

What is going rate? Who knows, even the U folks said they don't know... but their example was if Jay Leno gets paid 10k for showing up at a car dealership and the third string RB gets 20k ... probably going to be a problem with the NCAA.

 

[Nax5]

I am sure you read abut the Miami guy who is giving every football player $500 a month.

Damn. We got any rich donors on Gopherhole? Or will we all have to pool our money together to help retain talent?

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Thanks for the thorough recap! They have been using this app for awhile. The idea is that they allow the student-athletes to use the photos, which include them participating in their sports wearing University logos, in non-sponsored posts to build up their numbers of followers. The larger number of followers increases what they can get for their NIL in sponsored posts (which can't include the University logos, game action, etc.)

Yeah I really like the idea of the app just from a (guy who writes code) kinda thing.

Totally makes sense marketing wise.

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

What is going rate? Who knows, even the U folks said they don't know... but their example was if Jay Leno gets paid 10k for showing up at a car dealership and the third string RB gets 20k ... probably going to be a problem with the NCAA.

It is going to be mostly unenforceable and the NCAA will eventually get tired of going to court and losing. If I am the car dealer and the NCAA comes to me and asks for my records on what I pay for endorsements, why wouldn't I just tell the to piss off? There is no crime being committed and they don't have any investigation or subpoena power.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

It is going to be mostly unenforceable and the NCAA will eventually get tired of going to court and losing. If I am the car dealer and the NCAA comes to me and asks for my records on what I pay for endorsements, why wouldn't I just tell the to piss off? There is no crime being committed and they don't have any investigation or subpoena power.

Eehhh I think that depends.

NCAA's losses in court tend to revolve around NCAA rules that are absolute "no" and what their spectrum of authority is as far as non athlete activity (penn st).

But I haven't seen a school brave enough to run to court over specific sanctions yet... that's a whole other ballgame and that's what they'd have to do if the want to duke out a going rate fight ...

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

Eehhh I think that depends.

NCAA's losses in court tend to revolve around NCAA rules that are absolute "no" and what their spectrum of authority is as far as non athlete activity (penn st).

But I haven't seen a school brave enough to run to court over specific sanctions yet... that's a whole other ballgame and that's what they'd have to do if the want to duke out a going rate fight ...

But this isn't going to be the schools, this is going to be a student-athlete suing the NCAA which has declared them ineligible because they were paid $15,000 to make a public appearance at a car dealer when the NCAA has determined that the "going rate" for that type of activity was capped at $5,000. Justice Kavanaugh has half his majority opinion for that case already written and saved in his drafts folder.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

But this isn't going to be the schools, this is going to be a student-athlete suing the NCAA which has declared them ineligible because they were paid $15,000 to make a public appearance at a car dealer when the NCAA has determined that the "going rate" for that type of activity was capped at $5,000. Justice Kavanaugh has half his majority opinion for that case already written and saved in his drafts folder.

Except there is no cap...

Either way it's not clear to me that the SCOTUS case means there can't be ANY rules... but maybe you read the implications differently.

We'll see.

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

Except there is no cap...

Either way it's not clear to me that the SCOTUS case means there can't be ANY rules... but maybe you read the implications differently.

We'll see.

Yes, they are saying there is a cap. The cap is the "going rate." Paying less than or equal to the "going rate" is permissible, paying more than the "going rate" is impermissible. But because there is no definitive "going rate" for an activity like making an appearance at a car dealer, the SAs are left to guess what the NCAA will allow. I agree that the Supremes haven't held that there can be no rules and I don't think that was their intent. The message to the NCAA, however, was that the limits they have been placing on SAs have far over-reached what is lawful.

 

[upnorthkid]

i think the issue with trying to decide "going rate" is also the repercussions. why is it the athlete's fault if the company will pay whatever? Are they supposed to say no I can only take this much? Unless there's a number assigned, there would be no way that holds up in court

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

i think the issue with trying to decide "going rate" is also the repercussions. why is it the athlete's fault if the company will pay whatever? Are they supposed to say no I can only take this much? Unless there's a number assigned, there would be no way that holds up in court

Why is Reggie Bush's fault?

 

[#2Gopher]

Damn. We got any rich donors on Gopherhole? Or will we all have to pool our money together to help retain talent?

We're all looking at you to open up your pocketbook and show your wealth!

 

[Nax5]

We're all looking at you to open up your pocketbook and show your wealth!

You may be disappointed with our record after me funding the team for a few years.

 

[hungan1]

If you are a walk-on on a need base assistance and receiving money from NIL, it will be a major bummer if you earn a pittance amount enough to disqualify you of your aid.

 

[hungan1]

Is there a possibility that the Feds are going to step in and start looking into whether an athlete on scholarship earning X amount of $$$ has to declare both the scholarship and NIL payment as taxable income?

The Feds don't like it when you are making money and you are not giving the government their cut.

What about the individual states?

Let's say SEC States are far more generous with their NIL policies. Is this going to give them an added competitive advantage?

Attention Bag Men: You can come out of the closet now. "Let's pool our money together and give every football player $5,000 a month". "Wait a minute! LSU just offered $10,000 a month for every player!" Hold that thought.

Feds: Should we send Player X's grandma, and Player Y's parents for undeclared income to jail? "You failed to report the Ferrari that you have received as a gift."

Corruption, what is that nowadays?

 

[hungan1]

Too much money greed (and quest for power) is the ruination of all good things.

The SOTUS Citizens United ruling has negatively impacted our Democracy with obscene amount of money spent anonymously.

The NIL ruling may do the same thing to collegiate sports.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Is there a possibility that the Feds are going to step in and start looking into whether an athlete on scholarship earning X amount of $$$ have to declare both the scholarship and NIL payment as taxable income?

The Feds doesn't like it when you are making money and not giving the government their cut.

What about the individual states?

Let's say SEC States are far more generous with their NIL policies. Is this going to give them an added competitive advantage?

Attention Bag Men: You can come out of the closet now. "Let's pool our money together and give every football player $5,000 a month". "Wait a minute! LSU just offered $10,000 a month for every player!"

I don't think the "SEC States are far more generous with their NIL policies" is a thing, not from a legal / rules standpoint. They can't authorize more / different NIL opportunities than the NCAA would allow.

Granted they could just have more folks willing to sponsor NIL opportunities, that could be a thing.

 

[hungan1]

All jokes aside, the Bag Men will just elevate their game to a whole new level.

 

[Gophergrandpa]

The NIL in effect legalizes players' earning money related to their football activities while in college. The NIL money, as far as I know, will be taxable income (income or royalty) that must be declared. Annual, truthful tax returns must be filed. If taxes aren't withheld from NIL income (most likely won't), players with meaningful NIL income must pay quarterly estimated taxes. I think that modest amounts of NIL income might, over the long haul, prove to be more procedurally burdensome for some players than beneficial.

Players receiving big NIL payments, on the other hand, might now become subject to IRS audits. If a player is getting cash under the table, on top of NIL payments, will tax preparers be willing to sign onto a tax returns that omit substantial "bag man" income? With some tax revenue (and justice) now at stake, will the NIL winners at certain colleges now suddenly face scrutiny by the IRS for undisclosed/unreported "bag man" income? Bag men might be in trouble for not reporting payments to players on a 1099 Form.

The rational result is that all "bag man" payments will soon be made explicitly as royalties or earned income, and those dollars must be reported and taxed. All of them. With IRS scrutiny, the tax fraud stakes will go up for the NIL winners and their families ... and for the bag men and the schools that know of bag men payments. It could get interesting.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

All jokes aside, the Bag Men will just elevate their game to a whole new level.

Don't even NEED bag men now...

No need to go to the speakeasy when the bars and liquor stores are open ...

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I had a friend whose nickname was "Bag Man" - because he was always "in the bag" - as in drunk.

As far as the tax implications, it states in the presentation that "students can hire someone to help with NIL opportunities." So, it would seem logical that that person would also be in charge of making sure that taxes are paid and reported.

it would be ironic if some star player got busted for not paying taxes on his NIL earnings. I have this image of a player getting some jail time, and applying for work-release so he could play in games on Saturday.

 

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

I had a friend whose nickname was "Bag Man" - because he was always "in the bag" - as in drunk.

As far as the tax implications, it states in the presentation that "students can hire someone to help with NIL opportunities." So, it would seem logical that that person would also be in charge of making sure that taxes are paid and reported.

it would be ironic if some star player got busted for not paying taxes on his NIL earnings. I have this image of a player getting some jail time, and applying for work-release so he could play in games on Saturday.

I would hope the schools would explain that the amounts received are not only taxable for income tax, but are also subject to SE tax.

 

[PhiloVance]

As with every new rule or law there will be loop holes and then more rules and then more creative attorneys finding different loop holes and then more rules etc.