Maybe I should be grateful . . .

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DL65

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given my age (I'm almost 63) I've at least witnessed one national and two conference championship teams as a Gopher fan. Most on this board have yet to see a dominating defense or even a sniff at a conference championship. IMO, the last time Minnesota had a truly dominating defense was in 1962 and a fairly good one in the 1967 championship season. Sadly, until Minnesota has a dominating defense, Rose Bowls and conference championships will remain only a dream. I hope I'm around long enough to see the dream fulfilled.

Go Gophers!!
 

DL, I am 25 and I hope I'm around long enough to see that dream also...
 


Yea but

us older guys have gone thru about 50 years of futility after that. The younger guys--many of them would have to go thru 30 more straight years of losing to equal our agony. How would you younger guys feel after 30 more years of what you see this year. Its lucky we arent suicidal.
 

Does it count if I am a diehard Viking and Gopher fan... you can add the years together and I am at 50!
 


Old or young...

given the years of wandering in the Desert of Futility...G fans of all ages are the best, most loyal, eternal optimists in the BT.
 

NewEngland_Gold said:
given the years of wandering in the Desert of Futility...G fans of all ages are the best, most loyal, eternal optimists in the BT.
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Except for the boo-birds. How can 'fans' boo the home team of amateur players.

Too many people/fans/media in this market influenced by the jaded state of pro sports.
 

Q for DL65: When you say you "witnessed" a national championship, what did you see? When the Gophers moved to # 1 in the polls following a victory in the last game of the season on or about Nov. 19, 1960, did the players, media etc. believe that they had won a national championship? Did the newspapers at the time say so, with statements like the "Gopher have clinched the national championship, even if they lose the Rose Bowl, which is only an exhibition game that doesn't count." Are their media accounts from late Nov. and Dec. 1960 calling the Gophers national champion, or did that happen later? I don't know the answers to these questions, but would be interested in what people thought and said at the time?

After losing the Rose Bowl, did the game accounts include statements confirming that the Gophers were national champions, as a 2-loss team, or did that happen later? Was there any poll or choice after the Rose Bowl that crowned the Gophers as national champion? Do the Jan. 2-3 newspapers from around the country call the Gophers the national champion?

I don't mean to pick on you, I just think that calling the Gophers the 1960 National Champions is a bit odd, and suspect it was an after-the-fact thing, and that folks didn't believe from Nov. 20,1960-Jan. 2, 1961 that the Gophers were national champion. I got thinking about this with the report of the "new" trophy in the Gophers locker room for the 1960 national championship. I also wonder, did anyone actually give the Gophers a national championship trophy in late Nov. 1960-Dec. 1960, or in 1961? Again, I don't know the answers to these questions.

Would be interested in your thoughts DL65.

While this is post # 1 for me, I am a long-time reader and 20-year plus Gopher season-ticket holder.
 

BigTenGuy said:
Q for DL65: When you say you "witnessed" a national championship, what did you see? When the Gophers moved to # 1 in the polls following a victory in the last game of the season on or about Nov. 19, 1960, did the players, media etc. believe that they had won a national championship? Did the newspapers at the time say so, with statements like the "Gopher have clinched the national championship, even if they lose the Rose Bowl, which is only an exhibition game that doesn't count." Are their media accounts from late Nov. and Dec. 1960 calling the Gophers national champion, or did that happen later? I don't know the answers to these questions, but would be interested in what people thought and said at the time?

After losing the Rose Bowl, did the game accounts include statements confirming that the Gophers were national champions, as a 2-loss team, or did that happen later? Was there any poll or choice after the Rose Bowl that crowned the Gophers as national champion? Do the Jan. 2-3 newspapers from around the country call the Gophers the national champion?

I don't mean to pick on you, I just think that calling the Gophers the 1960 National Champions is a bit odd, and suspect it was an after-the-fact thing, and that folks didn't believe from Nov. 20,1960-Jan. 2, 1961 that the Gophers were national champion. I got thinking about this with the report of the "new" trophy in the Gophers locker room for the 1960 national championship. I also wonder, did anyone actually give the Gophers a national championship trophy in late Nov. 1960-Dec. 1960, or in 1961? Again, I don't know the answers to these questions.

Would be interested in your thoughts DL65.

While this is post # 1 for me, I am a long-time reader and 20-year plus Gopher season-ticket holder.
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Don't know if DL65 will get back to you, but I'm also 63. I did remember a few details but also Googled because I didn't remember everything. (I'm also 63 in case I forgot to mention it.)
The Gophers were voted National Champions after the regular season. When we lost the Rose Bowl to Washington, the Helms Poll voted Washington the National Champion. So we ended up sharing it technically.

I remember that there were some articles after the Rose Bowl that we didn't deserve the title. It was much less important back then partly because there wasn't constant discussing of the issue on ESPN stirring people up. I think getting to the Rose Bowl but losing seemed a bigger deal; we already had been declared National Champion and I think most Minnesotans felt we were following the regular season. Don't know about a formal trophy presentation.
 



Hang in there DL65 - if someone had told me in 1967 when I was a freshman at Minnesota that the Gophers would never win another Big Ten title in my lifetime, I would have laughed...now I am not so sure - I'm hoping to live until 90, so I have another 30 to go...but 40+ years is a long time to wait.
 

Thanks for the response Mulligan. I know they were voted # 1 in December, after the final regular season games were played, and believe they were a deserving # 1 at that point, even though Mississippi was undefeated, with their only blemish being a tie. I'm just wondering whether anyone called the Gophers the national champion in the period between the regular season and the bowl games. It strikes me as odd to declare someone the national champion, and state in advance that the bowl games don't count.
 

My recollection is that the Gs were declared the regular season National Champions and the bowls were viewed as entertaining, celebratory New Year's window dressing to the regular season.

In those days, there weren't the jelly bean dish of bowls there are today, and I can't recall them being factored into the overall championship picture like they are now. Not to say there weren't fans upset if a bowl win was not properly recognized nationally in their opinion, but the bowl arena seemed like kind of an after thought to the regular season NC discussion vs the frenzy of interest it generates today.

Seems to me that in that ancient time, that bowls were more about bragging rights going into next year rather than a significant NC determinant.

Looking back on those GG glory days 40 or so years ago under Warmath, it seems absolutely remarkable that Minny was able to pull it all off relative to all the obstacles that exist now in attempting to return to elite status.
 

Back in those days the voting was done by the AP and UPI and it was done before the bowl games. Minnesota was voted #1 in both polls(I believe) and therefore declared national champions just as national champs before and for many years after(until the BCS BS).

When the Gophers won the NC there were four main bowl games,all on Jan 1. The Rose Bowl, Cotton Bowl, Sugar Bowl and the Orange Bowl. There also was the Blue Bonnet Bowl I believe and maybe some other minor Bowls. Anyone else?.
 



Big Ten Guy,

Good question. I was a thirteen year-old eighth grader at the time that Minnesota was declared the National Champs. The national champions in those days was declared before the bowl season. At that time there were a lot less bowl games. The major bowls were Rose, Orange,
Cotton and Sugar and they had tie-ins with the major conferences. Since the late 1930s the Associated Press (AP) was looked upon as having the imprimatur when it came to naming the National Champs. In 1960 the AP declared Minnesota National Champs at the conclusion of the regular season. The United Press International (UPI) a competing press agency also declared the Gophers as National Champs in 1960. There were other organizations that would get in the act, however, it was the AP that was viewed as having the official say as to who were the National Champs from the late 1930s onward. Some years after Minnesota's 1960 season, the AP started naming its Champion after the bowl season. (Several institutions in the 1940s, 50s and 60s including Notre Dame had internal rules prohibiting their teams from playing bowl games. So, the bowl games were viewed much differently then they are now. In 1966, numbers one and two, Notre Dame and Michigan State played to their famous tie. Neither team played in the post season. Michigan State had played the previous year in the Rose Bowl and couldn't repeat, so Purdue played instead and defeated Southern Cal in the Rose Bowl. Notre Dame stayed home and was declared National Champs before the bowl season began.)

As I remember that season, AP came out with its final rating in early December and declared the Gophers National Champs. As a result, the media (print and electronic) reported the same.
And that's how the Gophers were introduced in days leading up to and at the start of the Rose Bowl. From a personal level, I remember a lot of adults in December mentioning the Gophers as National Champs, but the big thing for them was going to the Rose Bowl for the first time and, of course, expecting to win the January Classic. A lot of the adults at that time had experienced five National Championship seasons, but the Gophers hadn't participated in the Rose Bowl. (There was strong bitterness that Alabama had been selected to play in the Rose Bowl over Bierman's 1934 contingent, which was arguably his best team. Minnesota is listed as National Champions in 1934.)

Obviously the loss to Washington in the Rose Bowl was a bitter pill to swallow for Gopher fans. And, of course, Mississippi started making claims that they were National Champs.

I would concur with Mulligan's assessment. The National Championship had already been declared; however, getting to the Rose Bowl and losing it was the bigger deal.

Go Gophers!!
 

NewEngland_Gold said:
Looking back on those GG glory days 40 or so years ago under Warmath, it seems absolutely remarkable that Minny was able to pull it all off relative to all the obstacles that exist now in attempting to return to elite status.
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Yes, but remember there were all sorts of schools, many of them now that are perennial Top 10, who did not recruit African-Americans. There was a lot less competition for elite players. We not only got great players from the South like Bobby Bell, Aaron Brown, and Carl Eller, but we also had that pipeline out of Pennsylvania, Sandy Stephens and Judge Dickson.

You added those players to some very solid players from Minnesota like Tom Hall, John Campbell, Milt Sunde, Julian Hook, etc. I'm sure they must have, but I don't think Iowa and Wisconsin recruited many kids from Minnesota to play for them. We didn't get many from those states either. That was one reason Gopher football was so big then, Viking factor not withstanding. There were kids on the team from a lot of different towns in Minnesota, and if there wasn't a player from your own town, chances were pretty good that there was a player on the team from a rival town that you had watched play or even played against in high school.
 

Mulligan said:
Yes, but remember there were all sorts of schools, many of them now that are perennial Top 10, who did not recruit African-Americans. There was a lot less competition for elite players. We not only got great players from the South like Bobby Bell, Aaron Brown, and Carl Eller, but we also had that pipeline out of Pennsylvania, Sandy Stephens and Judge Dickson.

You added those players to some very solid players from Minnesota like Tom Hall, John Campbell, Milt Sunde, Julian Hook, etc. I'm sure they must have, but I don't think Iowa and Wisconsin recruited many kids from Minnesota to play for them. We didn't get many from those states either. That was one reason Gopher football was so big then, Viking factor not withstanding. There were kids on the team from a lot of different towns in Minnesota, and if there wasn't a player from your own town, chances were pretty good that there was a player on the team from a rival town that you had watched play or even played against in high school.
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You are absolutely right regarding the recruitment of very talented African-Americans no one else wanted to consider for BT fb in those primitive days of race relations in this country.

What I found remarkable at the time was story after story in the S&T about how our new coach from Mississippi of all places...Warmath...was bringing AAs into Minny and wouldn't that result in unforeseen consequences to the fabric of our Nordic society. Also, how could Warmath ever blend them into a team with our homegrown boys from all over the state.

It did and he did. National fb recognition, National Championship performance and the opportunity for many great young men to achieve at levels never before possible due to ground broken by the University of Minnesota.
 

DL65-----Enjoyed your post.

Don't forget everyone, the Gophers went to the Rose Bowl in 1962 also. That year they won the damn thing.

On a side note: For the 61 Rose Bowl, my friend growing up (two doors down) went to the game. His father was more of a train enthusiast than a Gopher fan so they took a train trip. They took the Great Northern(now it would be Amtrak) from Alexandria to either Portland or Seattle and then down the coast to Pasadena. I was so jealous. That would be a great trip.

BTW my friend's father was an optometrist. His first and middle initials were I and C. so his store name was I. C. XXXXXX - OPTOMATRIST. I always thought that was pretty 'cool'.
 


I still remember

I think it was the second rose bowl---getting my outside chores done early so I could catch the game in late afternoon. I remember the weather--it was a dreary gloomy day weather wise. I remember being so fired up for it-almost in a frenzy---as i sometimes do for big games yet. Odd I still remember the weather!
 

BigTenGuy - welcome to the Gopher Hole! Looking forward to reading more posts.

THANKS to Mulligan, DL65, Doc, & others for their recollections! I LOVE hearing about that stuff! THANK YOU THANK YOU!
 

I'm seventy and remember those days well. In the '61 Rose Bowl the Gophers went to California and really enjoyed themselves and partied. We gave Washington no respect. We came out flat and Washington never let us off the floor when we finally did wake up. It was a new thing for Warmath, and I think he let himself get carried away with all the hoopla. He learned his lesson. In the '62 case he took the team out and literally ran a marine boot camp. Never let the players do any fun stuff except what was absolutely necesary. By game time they were ready and really took it to UCLA. Never in my wildest dreams did I think we'd never go back after all these years. God only made the Israelites wander around for forty years. We've got that beat.
About memories, I went deer hunting the day we played Purdue in the '60 season fully confident we'd whomp them. I bagged my first deer that day and then came home to hear we'd lost. What a downer to a great day.
 

I'm 56 and started listening to Ray C. in about 1965. We lived way up in northwestern Minnesota and radio was my only option to follow the Gophers. I remember washing my car on Saturdays to Ray's golden tones. Little did I know that I was experiencing the hey days of Gophers football. Finally moved down to the Cities and have had season tickets for the 10 years. Although it has been enjoyable overall it really has been too long since we accomplished anything noteworthy. I have several long time Gopher season ticket holders, as friends, from 65 to 75 years of age who are waiting for a return to those days. For their sake, I hope it comes soon.
 

There's nothing odd about the 1960 Gophers being the national champions. They picked the national champion after the regular season, that was the way it was done. Bowl games were seen as glorified exhibition games, and often seen as somewhat disreputable.

It was only relatively recently that the rules were changed so that stats from bowl games counted to your season statistics, just as one example of how the relationship between college football and the bowls has changed. BYU's national championship was controversial, because they played a 6-5 Michigan team in the Holiday Bowl, and won 24-17. Yet no one challenges their national championship. Today, BYU would have had to play the BCS #2 team, but the rules back then was that they were still tied in with the Holiday Bowl.
 

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