It is not the coaching.

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bailee88

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Over the past 40 years we have changed coaches at the U numerous times and players have come and gone and we still have not had the level of success most of us would like to see. What has been the same? The lack of big time support from the administration at the U. What else has been the same? We are not close enough to a large pool of DI football talent. More DI football players reside within 25 miles of the University of Miami than reside in MN, WI, SD, ND and IA combined. What else? The fan support is terrible! A small group of fans are loyal a truly care but the rest are casual fans that jump off the bandwagon at the first sign of trouble. All the negative talk does not help anyone. I heard a so called gopher fan say he wished the Gophers would LOSE so Coach Brewster would get fired! Recruits see and hear this stuff too. I work at a school with a player being talked to by the Gophers and he said he can go to Iowa(only game in town) and be treated like royalty or go o the Gophers and be the punchline of a joke.
I read this board every day, but don't write very often. I love Gopher football and I had to get that off my chest.
 

bailee88 said:
Over the past 40 years we have changed coaches at the U numerous times and players have come and gone and we still have not had the level of success most of us would like to see. What has been the same? The lack of big time support from the administration at the U. What else has been the same? We are not close enough to a large pool of DI football talent. More DI football players reside within 25 miles of the University of Miami than reside in MN, WI, SD, ND and IA combined. What else? The fan support is terrible! A small group of fans are loyal a truly care but the rest are casual fans that jump off the bandwagon at the first sign of trouble. All the negative talk does not help anyone. I heard a so called gopher fan say he wished the Gophers would LOSE so Coach Brewster would get fired! Recruits see and hear this stuff too. I work at a school with a player being talked to by the Gophers and he said he can go to Iowa(only game in town) and be treated like royalty or go o the Gophers and be the punchline of a joke.
I read this board every day, but don't write very often. I love Gopher football and I had to get that off my chest.
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More excuses! To say coaching has nothing to do with it is just flat out wrong in my opinion. WINNING! will come with the right coaching and talent, they work hand in hand. Winning and winning big solves alot of issues.
 

Unfortunately it takes all things to build a consistent winner. The fan base is a reflection of the program, but worse than that, a delayed reflection. Fans are fickle and fandom is not a product of the smart side of the brain. We really should't expect much.

Too build a program the flailing of arms and wringing of hands and boo hoo this and that simply must be ignored by decision makers while the framework of a successful program is put in place. Which of course makes the fans even uglier, like petulent spoiled children who think they can get their way.

Folks believe it's all coach and playbook, and I wish it were that easy. But a winning program is built on a rock solid foundation. It takes decades. Our administration did the minimum input for thirty years. And only in the last ten have they even cared enough to say the right things. And only in the last five to make the actual investment. It will be a long road, and will involve more coaches as we go. The fans will continue to cheer when we win and gnash their teeth when we lose. To expect better pragmatic behavior is futile.
 

bailee88 said:
Over the past 40 years we have changed coaches at the U numerous times and players have come and gone and we still have not had the level of success most of us would like to see. What has been the same? The lack of big time support from the administration at the U. What else has been the same? We are not close enough to a large pool of DI football talent. More DI football players reside within 25 miles of the University of Miami than reside in MN, WI, SD, ND and IA combined. What else? The fan support is terrible! A small group of fans are loyal a truly care but the rest are casual fans that jump off the bandwagon at the first sign of trouble. All the negative talk does not help anyone. I heard a so called gopher fan say he wished the Gophers would LOSE so Coach Brewster would get fired! Recruits see and hear this stuff too. I work at a school with a player being talked to by the Gophers and he said he can go to Iowa(only game in town) and be treated like royalty or go o the Gophers and be the punchline of a joke.
I read this board every day, but don't write very often. I love Gopher football and I had to get that off my chest.
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Great post, bailee! You are one of the few people in GopherHole who really understand what is going on with the Gopher's football team. There are actually posters that believe that John Gruden is the answer to our dreams. How clueless is that?
 



bailee88 said:
What has been the same? The lack of big time support from the administration at the U.
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Yea, since a $300 million dollar stadium investment - that took funds from the state, university, donors, and students in a time of declining budgets- is definitely a "lack of big time support". I don't buy this one single bit.
 

thestl said:
Yea, since a $300 million dollar stadium investment - that took funds from the state, university, donors, and students in a time of declining budgets- is definitely a "lack of big time support". I don't buy this one single bit.
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This is year 2 of the stadium, not 42. That level of support is a recent development.
 

The coach is responsible for the talent...THAT is what were lacking.
 

StCroix said:
The coach is responsible for the talent...THAT is what were lacking.
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+1 Who has been a good coach in the last 40 years other than Lou Holts. Have any others gone on to bigger things?
 



Not so true. The coach can elevate the talent off the percieved value of the university, but that is all. No coach will bring in five star talent until we have a five star program.

Coach Brewster has been bringing mid leve talent into a bottom level program. That's how you improve. When we become a mid level program if he is still here I expect that he will be able to recruit upper level talent. And so on.

It is the administration, and the program first.
 

I think most of us would be satisified with a level of success Wisconsin and Iowa are having with football. They don't have a better talent base to draw from. They have had some successful coaches and some decent recruiting, but nothing Ohio St. like. They have developed players, stuck with cordinators and systems, and they are successful. It can happen here.
 

bailee88 said:
We are not close enough to a large pool of DI football talent. More DI football players reside within 25 miles of the University of Miami than reside in MN, WI, SD, ND and IA combined.
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I agree with some of your comments. I think many people here have documented the lack of administrative support for the football team over the same long time expanse that the team has been mediocre to bad.

However, the 'not close enough to the talent' argument does not resonate with me. Think about this: Yes, More D1 talent may reside within 25 miles of the University of Miami than live in MN, WI, SD, ND, and IA combined. Yep. But, how did Wisconsin look against Miami in the Champs Sports Bowl last year? I would say Minnesota is closer to talent, and offers an easy access airport that Boise Idaho can't. How is Boise State doing these days? How much easier is it for recruits to visit Minneapolis compared to Lincoln Nebraska?

Sure, there are barriers that are beyond the UofM's control. But those aren't barriers that can't be overcome. Wisconsin sucked for a good portion of my lifetime. Even the run-of-the-mill Gopher teams beat them on a regular basis until B.A. arrived. The 'Camp' was empty. I very much admire where their program has gone since the 90's.

For me, it just isn't that complicated. We just need our own version of B.A. and perhaps some more 'U' wide backing... and the rest will come. It may not ever reach the level of Ohio State, but I think we should expect nothing less than the level of success enjoyed by Wisconsin and Iowa over the past 15 years.

Regarding the fans... I think people look at the half-empty Metrodome, and the size of the new Brickhouse and assume the fan base is small. That is an easy assumption to make. Like it or not (I personally do NOT) but the biggest percentage of MN sports fans drift around the many choices they have to compete for their sporting attention. Almost all my friends consider me to be the biggest Gopher fan that they know. Because of that I get asked about the Gophers ALL THE TIME. They are interested, just not enough to buy a ticket or hang out on a message board like this. The Gopher football team has done nothing to spark these masses in my lifetime, but they are out there... waiting. They got that spark when the Twins beat Detroit in the '87 ALCS, and filled the metrodome just to welcome the team back. That same crowd was on hand to welcome the Gopher BBall team back from beating UCLA to get to the final four. And of course, over the years the Vikings have won just enough to maintain their fan base. The Vikings have never gone into a funk of decade-long sub .500. Even when they have been average, they have had trouble selling out their stadium(s). The Gopher football team just hasn't provided that spark that captures the attention of the band wagon masses. Holtz shorted out the only Gopher football groundswell I have seen in my lifetime. The sputtering loss to Michigan in '03 slammed the door on another opportunity.

I hope I am around to see it but some day the Gophers will have their breakout year where things just happen to go RIGHT (Northwestern, mid 90's anyone?). I am sad to say that it has looked more and more like this won't happen under Brewster. But, when it does... a lot of pent up Gopher football energy will be released and it will be something special. Then, if the team climbs the ladder and contends for Big 10 titles, say every 4 or 5 years... a certain percentage of those bandwagon fans will find a home and the U can start talking about that third deck on the brickhouse.
 

Schnoodler said:
Not so true. The coach can elevate the talent off the percieved value of the university, but that is all. No coach will bring in five star talent until we have a five star program.

Coach Brewster has been bringing mid leve talent into a bottom level program. That's how you improve. When we become a mid level program if he is still here I expect that he will be able to recruit upper level talent. And so on.

It is the administration, and the program first.
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He has been bringing in mid level talent to a program that was at one time a mid level big ten program but of late a bottom level big ten program. The talent level he is bringing in is not gaining any ground on the teams the gophers are chasing in the big ten. With the addition of the 12th team next year they will just fall another rung lower on the ladder.
 



There are very few secrets in coaching. What does the OSU WR coach know or teach that is different from Coach Watson? Or Coach Davis?

Its the right talent and developing it in a good system. The academies run the option and what I call the old Wing T. It works. They don't recruit drop back passers who can't run. The top D1 programs have the talent and plug them in when they are ready to play. Nebraska used to turn big ol farms boys into top OL by year 4 or 5.

Our stretch play will not be our bread and butter unlike Masonball because our OL are big and slow and we don't have a burner at RB. We need to run between the tackles even though we don't have a John Clay type. Horton knows this. Until we get mobile and big OL and a fast and big RB that is what we will see.

Brewster must stick with a philosophy, an identity. He hasn't to date on O and that is the major reason we are struggling.
 

I certainly don't buy that Minnesota can't (at minimum) be as successful as Iowa and Wisconsin. Their "geography" is pretty much the same as Minnesota's.

48 players on Iowa's roster are from Iowa. 49 players on Wisconsin's roster are from Cheeseland. Yet those two programs, for the most part, have been pretty solid for quite some time now, including multiple appearances in BCS bowls/Big Ten's notable New Year's Day bowls (Capital One and Outback).

For the record, 36 players on the Gophers' roster are from Minnesota.
 

In year four, Brewsters style of play is approaching what Mason was doing. The teams are becomming very similiar offensively and hopefully better defensively. There is a reason for that. He has realized he will never have the talent of the top tier programs and to compete he has to minimize mistakes and keep the games close. The style of play is getting similiar to what Wisconsin and Iowa do. Those are the programs to emulate.

The task gets that much tougher next year with the division play.
 

bailee88 said:
Over the past 40 years we have changed coaches at the U numerous times and players have come and gone and we still have not had the level of success most of us would like to see. What has been the same? The lack of big time support from the administration at the U. What else has been the same? We are not close enough to a large pool of DI football talent. More DI football players reside within 25 miles of the University of Miami than reside in MN, WI, SD, ND and IA combined. What else? The fan support is terrible! A small group of fans are loyal a truly care but the rest are casual fans that jump off the bandwagon at the first sign of trouble. All the negative talk does not help anyone. I heard a so called gopher fan say he wished the Gophers would LOSE so Coach Brewster would get fired! Recruits see and hear this stuff too. I work at a school with a player being talked to by the Gophers and he said he can go to Iowa(only game in town) and be treated like royalty or go o the Gophers and be the punchline of a joke.
I read this board every day, but don't write very often. I love Gopher football and I had to get that off my chest.
Click to expand...

I gotta agree that this is just another list of excuses. However, everything you have listed can be fixed by the right guy in charge of the entire program and team.

I don't understand how we can complain about not being a big football state. We are a HUGE hockey state and have struggled the past couple years in hockey. Iowa can recruit, Wisconsin can recruit. How does Peterson get players all the way up to Boise Idaho?

Do not tell me that we can't recruit in Minnesota. Other teams can do it. I'm sure it's not easy, but it is more than possible.
 

Well, the administration relies too heavily on funding that comes through the State and tuition hikes. They don't view the Athletic Department as an area that is worth promoting/supporting. Little do they realize that they have driven potential alumni donors to contribute to AD programs at other schools. Personally, if I had a huge net worth, I would be less likely to fight for a larger chunk to go to the U because I would get arguments from my wife and her family that Iowa, Iowa State and Nebraska know how to bring in revenue with their AD programs. Therefore the donation pie gets divided by 2 or 3 or 4.

They need a huge alumni donor to step forward and say "I would give you all my legacy donations, but the administration wipes their butt with the AD."
 

The argument that we've had a lot of coaches, therefore coaching is not the problem is problematic at best. There have been mistakes in hiring coaches. We fired Cal Stoll after 3 consecutive 4-4 Big Ten seasons. Cal Stoll was the last Gophers coach to win 6 games. Firing Stoll was a mistake. Then we hired Joe Salem, that was a mistaken hire. Salem did ok at first, but everything fell apart. Holtz was a good hire, but he left before he could really build the team up to more than a middling level. Then we hired Gutey, he was ok, with 2 5 win Big Ten seasons, but he had some bad seasons too. Then we made a mistake with Wacker.
 

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