Is it possible that Coup would be needed to remove Trump from office?

MnplsGopher

Active member
We laugh at and look down our nose at Venezuela. But could something like that happen here? I'm thinking this is only even possible if he gets reelected, and is that much more emboldened in the second term.


And here is the thing to me: it's not actually the things that he does, themselves. Sure, they may be unpresidential, may be unprecedented for a POTUS. But no, the more shocking thing, to me, always seems to be the efforts and actions to cover it up.

Take the Ukraine thing now. That in of itself, is one thing. But he's essentially telling Congress "I won't cooperate with anything you want, no matter what, and you can't make me, I'm President. Everything you say is a lie, because I say so. And I can interpret the law any way I want to, because I'm President."


So what I'm thinking of is if, somehow, they impeached him and managed to vote to remove him from office. And his response is again, "No. I'm the President. This is all lies and fake. I will not leave office and you can't make me", and he also reaches out to his loyal followers to descend on DC with weapons to protect him.

Would/could congress compel the military to come to DC and forcefully remove him from the WH?



Could you see any of this happening? Is this pure fantasy that can never happen here?
 

bga1

Active member
We laugh at and look down our nose at Venezuela. But could something like that happen here? I'm thinking this is only even possible if he gets reelected, and is that much more emboldened in the second term.


And here is the thing to me: it's not actually the things that he does, themselves. Sure, they may be unpresidential, may be unprecedented for a POTUS. But no, the more shocking thing, to me, always seems to be the efforts and actions to cover it up.

Take the Ukraine thing now. That in of itself, is one thing. But he's essentially telling Congress "I won't cooperate with anything you want, no matter what, and you can't make me, I'm President. Everything you say is a lie, because I say so. And I can interpret the law any way I want to, because I'm President."


So what I'm thinking of is if, somehow, they impeached him and managed to vote to remove him from office. And his response is again, "No. I'm the President. This is all lies and fake. I will not leave office and you can't make me", and he also reaches out to his loyal followers to descend on DC with weapons to protect him.

Would/could congress compel the military to come to DC and forcefully remove him from the WH?



Could you see any of this happening? Is this pure fantasy that can never happen here?
The left already tried the coup route- 2017- 2019. In fact the coup effort is still ongoing. Thank you for asking, you are looking at things from the wrong direction but you fell into a slice of reality momentarily.
 

jamiche

Active member
Among the many negative lasting consequences of the Trump presidency will be his exploitation of constitutional loopholes regarding the use of presidential power. He has decided that he can defy congress anytime he wants and on any matter. Evidently it's working. (I don't understand why the House doesn't throw some of these folks who refuse subpoenas into jail for 72 hours. Congress has the power to do that and it would change the dynamic quickly.) Future presidents of both parties will build on this expansion of executive power and it will be bad for the country.

I think your scenario is far fetched.

The more likely scenario is that he contests his loss of the 2020 election and throws the country into a constitutional crisis. He's never admitted defeat in anything in his life. It's not going to start in 2020, especially if he's facing indictments. The dems should be preparing for this.
 

MnplsGopher

Active member
Among the many negative lasting consequences of the Trump presidency will be his exploitation of constitutional loopholes regarding the use of presidential power. He has decided that he can defy congress anytime he wants and on any matter. Evidently it's working. (I don't understand why the House doesn't throw some of these folks who refuse subpoenas into jail for 72 hours. Congress has the power to do that and it would change the dynamic quickly.) Future presidents of both parties will build on this expansion of executive power and it will be bad for the country.

I think your scenario is far fetched.

The more likely scenario is that he contests his loss of the 2020 election and throws the country into a constitutional crisis. He's never admitted defeat in anything in his life. It's not going to start in 2020, especially if he's facing indictments. The dems should be preparing for this.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Your last paragraph sounds very realistic to me, in the event he loses 2020. Why wouldn't he Tweet out something like "Dems fraudulently stole the election! Fake! Help me save America!" ? I'm worried DC could turn into a big Charlottesville.
 

justthefacts

Active member
The left already tried the coup route- 2017- 2019. In fact the coup effort is still ongoing. Thank you for asking, you are looking at things from the wrong direction but you fell into a slice of reality momentarily.


It wasn't sudden, violent, or illegal, but otherwise, you're exactly right.
 

MnplsGopher

Active member
A coup doesn't have to be violent, or even necessarily sudden.

It's just an "illegal"/"unconstitutional" seizure of power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d'état

But if the basis for the coup were because of absurdly illegal and unconstitutional actions of the sitting President, I'm not so sure I would care as much about the illegality of the coup itself.
 

Blizzard

Active member
Take the Ukraine thing now. That in of itself, is one thing. But he's essentially telling Congress "I won't cooperate with anything you want, no matter what, and you can't make me, I'm President. Everything you say is a lie, because I say so. And I can interpret the law any way I want to, because I'm President."
I'm trying to figure out what Trump has done wrong with 'whistleblower gate'.

https://amgreatness.com/2019/09/20/shamelessness-and-ignorance-unlimited/#.XYTZiUHe24A.twitter

Future presidents of both parties will build on this expansion of executive power and it will be bad for the country.
Presidents have building on the expansion of executive power for a while now. If you're laying this at Trump's feet it's a bit ridiculous.
 

jamiche

Active member
If he loses—a big if with the current dem field—I could see him refusing to concede.
He refused to concede that he lost the popular vote in 2016. There's no way that he will concede the 2020 election. His 38% will follow him blindly. The repubs in the senate will follow him blindly because that is their path to retaining power. Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch and boof will rule in favor of him even if he has lost be 8M votes and 100 EC votes. It will be up to Roberts and one of the key legal arguments in front of SCOTUS will be whether the EC electors be required to vote as their states voted. Uncharted territory.
 

Section2

Active member
He refused to concede that he lost the popular vote in 2016. There's no way that he will concede the 2020 election. His 38% will follow him blindly. The repubs in the senate will follow him blindly because that is their path to retaining power. Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch and boof will rule in favor of him even if he has lost be 8M votes and 100 EC votes. It will be up to Roberts and one of the key legal arguments in front of SCOTUS will be whether the EC electors be required to vote as their states voted. Uncharted territory.
I agree. We have Trump for life folks. There's nothing we can do about it.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

Over Macho Grande?
The left seems to be having an enormous amount of difficult simply fielding a worthy candidate next November.

How about they just focus on that? Doesn't that seem like the best possible path for everyone involved?
 

Bad Gopher

A Loner, A Rebel
Our faith in the system of checks and balances was obviously misplaced, as Trump and his GOP and Democrat enablers have neutralized it. That said, I do have faith that he would be escorted out of the White House the same way Colonel Jessep was escorted out of the courthouse when his time was unavoidably up.
 

bottlebass

Main Member
The left seems to be having an enormous amount of difficult simply fielding a worthy candidate next November.

How about they just focus on that? Doesn't that seem like the best possible path for everyone involved?
Agreed, all of this talk doesn't matter unless the Ds actually win. Should concentrate on that first....
 

Bad Gopher

A Loner, A Rebel
The left seems to be having an enormous amount of difficult simply fielding a worthy candidate next November.

How about they just focus on that? Doesn't that seem like the best possible path for everyone involved?
You're justifiably nervous that justice will be done. Jumping on a thread to try and shut down conversation on the topic of the thread is classic Ogee.
 

Nokomis

Nothing To Say
It's threads like this that are going to win Trump the election. I agree with others (and have since the first rumblings of impeachment started) Dems need to focus on beating Trump in the next election (he's certainly vulnerable enough). Haters gonna hate, and Trump's gonna Trump. Eventually he'll dig his own grave, but not if we keep throwing the dirt back in.

I remember this same sort of talk with Bush. But he won a second term, and then wrote Obama a nice note on his way out. We've had a peaceful transfer of power 29 times since the Civil War (remarkable given world history). I don't see that changing within the next election cycle.
 
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diehard

Active member
The lefties just need to start sourcing more safe spaces and printing more time out cards in preparation for the Donald Trump Jr inauguration in 2024. Yes, DTJr, not Ivanka or Jared. You lose the House in 2020 too.
 

Minnesota

Member
The lefties just need to start sourcing more safe spaces and printing more time out cards in preparation for the Donald Trump Jr inauguration in 2024. Yes, DTJr, not Ivanka or Jared. You lose the House in 2020 too.
You can enjoy this fantasy from the comforts of your gulag. It won’t be all bad, though. You might finally lose some weight.
 

GopherJake

Active member
You can enjoy this fantasy from the comforts of your gulag. It won’t be all bad, though. You might finally lose some weight.
And it also comes with a compulsory harvest that rat's nest of barbed-wire ponytail! Good news is the lice will be gone!
 
This sounds like "Seven Days in May."

If you haven't seen it, it was a movie in the 50's about an attempted military take-over of the US Government. Burt Lancaster played the leader of the military group planning the take-over, and Kirk Douglass was an officer who uncovered the plot and exposed it. Great Flick.

as to the OP, it may be interesting to contemplate, but I still think it's awfully far-fetched.

As others have said, first the Dems have to come up with a candidate and a platform that can win - and win decisively.

I think a more possible scenario is an extremely close election. Imagine the 2000 Bush-Gore election, only with multiple states as close as Florida. Recounts, court challenges, dangling chads etc. It could drag on for weeks or months. In that scenario, I could see Trump using every legal action possible to try and stay in office.

But, in the end, the only way a defeated President could try to stay in office would be to have the military backing him up. And I just don't see that happening.
 

MnplsGopher

Active member
This sounds like "Seven Days in May."

If you haven't seen it, it was a movie in the 50's about an attempted military take-over of the US Government. Burt Lancaster played the leader of the military group planning the take-over, and Kirk Douglass was an officer who uncovered the plot and exposed it. Great Flick.

as to the OP, it may be interesting to contemplate, but I still think it's awfully far-fetched.

As others have said, first the Dems have to come up with a candidate and a platform that can win - and win decisively.

I think a more possible scenario is an extremely close election. Imagine the 2000 Bush-Gore election, only with multiple states as close as Florida. Recounts, court challenges, dangling chads etc. It could drag on for weeks or months. In that scenario, I could see Trump using every legal action possible to try and stay in office.

But, in the end, the only way a defeated President could try to stay in office would be to have the military backing him up. And I just don't see that happening.
Actually SON, the scenario of Trump losing 2020 and then refusing to step down, is not the scenario I proposed in the OP. I would agree it is a much more likely scenario, in the sense that 0.1% is much more likely than 0.001%.


My scenario is Trump wins in 2020, and then either something he has already done catches up to him, or because he is emboldened by his win, he does something even worse, and finally gets impeached and voted to be removed from office. Then refuses to leave.


In either scenario, I guess ultimately the more worrisome part for me, the part that could turn really ugly if it goes the wrong way, is Trump appealing publicly to his base to come to DC and defend him. You essentially have civil war at that point, depending if you think armed Trump supporters engaging police and/or military forces with open fire in the streets, rises to the level of civil war.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Actually SON, the scenario of Trump losing 2020 and then refusing to step down, is not the scenario I proposed in the OP. I would agree it is a much more likely scenario, in the sense that 0.1% is much more likely than 0.001%.


My scenario is Trump wins in 2020, and then either something he has already done catches up to him, or because he is emboldened by his win, he does something even worse, and finally gets impeached and voted to be removed from office. Then refuses to leave.


In either scenario, I guess ultimately the more worrisome part for me, the part that could turn really ugly if it goes the wrong way, is Trump appealing publicly to his base to come to DC and defend him. You essentially have civil war at that point, depending if you think armed Trump supporters engaging police and/or military forces with open fire in the streets, rises to the level of civil war.
Holy Wowzers. I can't begin to imagine how tough life is for millennials like yourself in 2019. When was the last time you got a decent night's sleep?

Seriously, get a life. You're trying off-the-charts hard here to make something out of nothing. I mean, you almost got two pages of banter, so maybe you can consider that a success and pick up a new pole and drop another line and see who's biting there.
 

justthefacts

Active member
The left seems to be having an enormous amount of difficult simply fielding a worthy candidate next November.

How about they just focus on that? Doesn't that seem like the best possible path for everyone involved?


"Conducting a primary" apparently equals "having an enormous amount of difficulty."
 

Nokomis

Nothing To Say
This sounds like "Seven Days in May."

If you haven't seen it, it was a movie in the 50's about an attempted military take-over of the US Government. Burt Lancaster played the leader of the military group planning the take-over, and Kirk Douglass was an officer who uncovered the plot and exposed it. Great Flick.

as to the OP, it may be interesting to contemplate, but I still think it's awfully far-fetched.

As others have said, first the Dems have to come up with a candidate and a platform that can win - and win decisively.

I think a more possible scenario is an extremely close election. Imagine the 2000 Bush-Gore election, only with multiple states as close as Florida. Recounts, court challenges, dangling chads etc. It could drag on for weeks or months. In that scenario, I could see Trump using every legal action possible to try and stay in office.

But, in the end, the only way a defeated President could try to stay in office would be to have the military backing him up. And I just don't see that happening.
You could also read "It Can't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis. I read it during the Bush II years, and boy did it feed my paranoia.
 
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