Gophers suffer 8th loss in 9 games 71-59 to Iowa | Gopherhole

[Go Gophs]

Do I think Ben can coach, yes, but it is extremely sad that we talk about wins against Western Kentucky and Princeton as big wins.

Let's just cut right to it. We are a really bad team, but a really bad team with hope. While I did not support the hire, Ben has shown that he can maximize the talent of his roster (which is really bad in terms of Big Ten *exceptions Battle and Willis*), which is what good coaches always do. We need to give him 3 or 4 years before we can say one way or the other if he was / wasn't the right hire.

Hopefully with some luck in recruiting and being a player in the transfer market, we can upgrade the talent and let Ben continue to maximize the talent / effort of his roster.

Finally, we will never win the big ten. We should strive to finish 4-6 (MSU, Michigan (they will come back strong), WI & Purdue will most likely always finish in the top tier (essentially the Big Ten is like Formula 1...Mercedes and Red Bull are locks for either 1 or 2...then it is a battle for the best of the rest (Minnesota should be happy with winning that battle).

I agree with everything you said except the last paragraph.
Wisconsin has won the Big Ten many times with middle to bottom of the Big Ten talent. I think it can be done. But those expecting classes filled with 4 star kids just aren't being realistic.

Our university just is not in a place that is attractive. Wins are the only thing that will change recruiting here.

 

[Go Gophs]

Not a chance ! 1

Not a chance what Simba?

 

[ecoperson]

Do I think Ben can coach, yes, but it is extremely sad that we talk about wins against Western Kentucky and Princeton as big wins.

Let's just cut right to it. We are a really bad team, but a really bad team with hope. While I did not support the hire, Ben has shown that he can maximize the talent of his roster (which is really bad in terms of Big Ten *exceptions Battle and Willis*), which is what good coaches always do. We need to give him 3 or 4 years before we can say one way or the other if he was / wasn't the right hire.

Hopefully with some luck in recruiting and being a player in the transfer market, we can upgrade the talent and let Ben continue to maximize the talent / effort of his roster.

Finally, we will never win the big ten. We should strive to finish 4-6 (MSU, Michigan (they will come back strong), WI & Purdue will most likely always finish in the top tier (essentially the Big Ten is like Formula 1...Mercedes and Red Bull are locks for either 1 or 2...then it is a battle for the best of the rest (Minnesota should be happy with winning that battle).

I never said that they were 'big' wins. I was responding to a poster who wrote "I am saying they NEED to win games like this with the kind of talent level they have before things turn around here."

My point is that the preseason tournament and away games at Miss St and Mich were true examples of needed wins and they won them all. Expecting a win at Iowa is ludicrous for this roster this year.

Your moniker suggests that you are a pessimist and I am not here to convince you otherwise... especially with the unpredictable nature of sports. All I can say is that the '97 Gophers were not highly recruited, were not highly regarded in the preseason, yet somehow won the Big 10. THAT is what makes following your favorite sports team fun and exciting.

Wisconsin has no business being near the top of the league every year. Their players are not world beaters. The coaching staff, however, emphasizes the system and finds pieces that fit that system. Coach Johnson appears to be emphasizing the development of a consistent system. IF he can be successful in doing so and IF he can recruit the athletes that are willing to forego ego, there is a chance that we will find the hope that you have lost.

What two teams are locks for #1 and #2 in your example? You list 4 teams and conveniently forgot Indiana, Maryland, and Ohio State who have all won at least a share of the conference championship in the last 10 years. You forgot Illinois who has had some formidable line-ups. They haven't won recently but won back to back in the mid 2000s. This is a GREAT league with solid teams throughout. This isn't Gonzaga in the West Coast Conference.

 

[salzie]

I can agree. And I am with you about the roster. I do think talent level will improve from where it is now for sure.
But those expecting Johnson to bring in classes towards the top of the conference are kidding themselves. This university will always be in that 7-10 range as it applies to recruiting until it wins something.
Anything thinking that this will change just doesn't pay attention. Wisconsin is the mold and always has been here. Look at what PJ Fleck is doing. He is Barry Alvarez.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we're going to start loading up on 5 star kids, but yes, we should be able to increase our talent and some of that will come finding underrated kids, coaching kids up, and hopefully keeping more talented kids home

Some of your garbage is bringing your own personal politics into this. I for one don't take anyone bitching about "woke" seriously

 

[Go Gophs]

All I can say is that the '97 Gophers were not highly recruited, were not highly regarded in the preseason, yet somehow won the Big 10. THAT is what makes following your favorite sports team fun and exciting.

Sam Jacobsen was a 5-star recruit. Quincy Lewis was a 4-star. Bobby Jackson was at the top of every Juco list out there. Courtney James was also a 4-star. Hell even Trevor winter was a top 150 prospect. You don't know what you are talking about really. That roster was the most talented for quite some time.

 

[Go Gophs]

I don't think anyone is suggesting we're going to start loading up on 5 star kids, but yes, we should be able to increase our talent and some of that will come finding underrated kids, coaching kids up, and hopefully keeping more talented kids home

Some of your garbage is bringing your own personal politics into this. I for one don't take anyone bitching about "woke" seriously

Well right. And that is the same thing I am talking about. Coaching them up, getting more out of them as a team. Playing the game the right way. This must happen first and with kids deemed less talented by many before we see any real difference makers.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I can agree. And I am with you about the roster. I do think talent level will improve from where it is now for sure.
But those expecting Johnson to bring in classes towards the top of the conference are kidding themselves. This university will always be in that 7-10 range as it applies to recruiting until it wins something.
Anything thinking that this will change just doesn't pay attention. Wisconsin is the mold and always has been here. Look at what PJ Fleck is doing. He is Barry Alvarez.

I would also add that landing a top end recruiting class is way less important in basketball. You have find the right mix of players. Find that, and you can be a threat in the tournament even without top flight talent according to the recruiting services.

 

[Fleckoff]

Sam Jacobsen was a 5-star recruit. Quincy Lewis was a 4-star. Bobby Jackson was at the top of every Juco list out there. Courtney James was also a 4-star. Hell even Trevor winter was a top 150 prospect. You don't know what you are talking about really. That roster was the most talented for quite some time.

Honestly I think we out kicked our coverage vs Michigan and Mississippi State, those teams have the talent to to to the Dance, those were great coaching jobs. Honestly Ben coached circles around Capel in that game too. The Pitt kids looked like they couldn't get out of those huddles fast enough.

 

[BarnBurner]

I never said that they were 'big' wins. I was responding to a poster who wrote "I am saying they NEED to win games like this with the kind of talent level they have before things turn around here."

My point is that the preseason tournament and away games at Miss St and Mich were true examples of needed wins and they won them all. Expecting a win at Iowa is ludicrous for this roster this year.

Your moniker suggests that you are a pessimist and I am not here to convince you otherwise... especially with the unpredictable nature of sports. All I can say is that the '97 Gophers were not highly recruited, were not highly regarded in the preseason, yet somehow won the Big 10. THAT is what makes following your favorite sports team fun and exciting.

Wisconsin has no business being near the top of the league every year. Their players are not world beaters. The coaching staff, however, emphasizes the system and finds pieces that fit that system. Coach Johnson appears to be emphasizing the development of a consistent system. IF he can be successful in doing so and IF he can recruit the athletes that are willing to forego ego, there is a chance that we will find the hope that you have lost.

What two teams are locks for #1 and #2 in your example? You list 4 teams and conveniently forgot Indiana, Maryland, and Ohio State who have all won at least a share of the conference championship in the last 10 years. You forgot Illinois who has had some formidable line-ups. They haven't won recently but won back to back in the mid 2000s. This is a GREAT league with solid teams throughout. This isn't Gonzaga in the West Coast Conference.

"All I can say is that the '97 Gophers were not highly recruited,"

You have lost any credibility you thought you had with that statement.....

 

[USAF]

I would also add that landing a top end recruiting class is way less important in basketball. You have find the right mix of players. Find that, and you can be a threat in the tournament even without top flight talent according to the recruiting services.

Way LESS important?

I think you have that backwards. Talent is way MORE important in basketball.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Way LESS important?

I think you have that backwards. Talent is way MORE important in basketball.

Of course talent is important, but you don't have to have the super high rated talent to be successful. Murray for Iowa and Davis for Wisconsin are both examples of great players that were 3* recruits without a ton of fanfare out of high school.

You have to find talented players but you can win in basketball without a roster full of high 4* or 5* recruits.

 

[cjbfbp]

We competed very well the first half. When Iowa turned up the level of effort- we didn't come close to matching it. The second half was a beat down and we did not compete well at all in the second half.

Hard to argue with that.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I would say that you don't need a whole class of 4* or 5* players - but you need at least one player who stands out from the crowd.

In hoops, one player can make a huge difference, because he can elevate the rest of the roster.

If Ben can just land one "elite" recruit, then fill out the roster with guys who are solid - if not spectacular - then yes, you can have a very solid program.

Look at every great Gopher team over the years, and they had at least one guy to lead the way.

give me one Bobby Jackson, and you can find pieces to fill out the picture.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I would say that you don't need a whole class of 4* or 5* players - but you need at least one player who stands out from the crowd.

In hoops, one player can make a huge difference, because he can elevate the rest of the roster.

If Ben can just land one "elite" recruit, then fill out the roster with guys who are solid - if not spectacular - then yes, you can have a very solid program.

Look at every great Gopher team over the years, and they had at least one guy to lead the way.

give me one Bobby Jackson, and you can find pieces to fill out the picture.

100% agree you need the standout players to succeed at a really high level. I just don't think those standout players have to be of the high rated variety on the recruiting sites.

Will point again to the examples of Murray and Davis, both phenomenal players, neither was a 4*.

 

[ecoperson]

"All I can say is that the '97 Gophers were not highly recruited,"

You have lost any credibility you thought you had with that statement.....

Don't get me wrong... there were some very exciting, highly decorated recruits including some top 100 talents, State McDonalds All-Americans and Mr. Basketballs. I am talking about highly recruited can't miss prospects that would be considered 5 stars today. Not one player from the roster on McDonalds All American rosters from 1993-1996. https://basketball.realgm.com/highschool/mcdonalds/rosters/1993

I can dig out my newspaper clippings and notepads of Sid and Charley's columns with the recruiting tidbits if you would like. I was a recruiting geek at the time and excitedly turned to their columns at lunch from the work breakroom to see what the latest news was. (What a far cry from today's 24/7 recruiting news!)

None of these players were seriously considered by the blue bloods. Some might have been extended offers by the blue blood programs but it is not clear whether they were still committable and they were not putting on the full court press to get them.

The out of state prospects in AR, IN, and KY had luke warm interest at best from their Power 5 schools.

I am stuggling to find recruiting rankings from that era but it is safe to say that Clem was not bringing in any Top 20 classes.

Starters
Eric Harris- Junior New York, NY St. Raymond HS
Bobby Jackson- Senior Salisbury, NC
Sam Jacobson- Junior Cottage Grove, Minn Park HS: Minnesota Mr. Basketball, Minnesota Gatorade Player of the Year
Courtney James- Freshman Indianapolis, Ind Ben Davis HS
John Thomas- Senior Minneapolis, Minn Roosevelt HS: Minnesota Gatorade Player of the Year

Bench Rotation
Quincy Lewis- Sophomore Little Rock, Ark Parkview HS Arkansas Gatorade Player of the Year
Miles Tarver- Sophomore Oakland, Calif Maine Central Prep
Charles Thomas- Sophomore Harlan, Ky: Kentucky Mr. Basketball, Kentucky Gatorade Player of the Year
Trevor Winter- Senior Slayton, Minn Slayton HS

Deep Bench
Russ Archambault- Freshman Fort Yates, ND Sartell, Minn
Kevin Loge- Freshman Morris, Minn Morris Area HS
Kyle Sanden- Freshman Thief River Falls, Minn Lincoln HS

The point of my post is that this a team that played well together not because they were all superstars like the Fab 5 at Michigan. It's not like jaws were dropping around town when these student-athletes committed to the Gophers. The 96-97 team was a bunch of solid players from 1-9 that complemented each other extremely well. THIS is the hope for our Gophers in the short term.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

I never said that they were 'big' wins. I was responding to a poster who wrote "I am saying they NEED to win games like this with the kind of talent level they have before things turn around here."

My point is that the preseason tournament and away games at Miss St and Mich were true examples of needed wins and they won them all. Expecting a win at Iowa is ludicrous for this roster this year.

Your moniker suggests that you are a pessimist and I am not here to convince you otherwise... especially with the unpredictable nature of sports. All I can say is that the '97 Gophers were not highly recruited, were not highly regarded in the preseason, yet somehow won the Big 10. THAT is what makes following your favorite sports team fun and exciting.

Wisconsin has no business being near the top of the league every year. Their players are not world beaters. The coaching staff, however, emphasizes the system and finds pieces that fit that system. Coach Johnson appears to be emphasizing the development of a consistent system. IF he can be successful in doing so and IF he can recruit the athletes that are willing to forego ego, there is a chance that we will find the hope that you have lost.

What two teams are locks for #1 and #2 in your example? You list 4 teams and conveniently forgot Indiana, Maryland, and Ohio State who have all won at least a share of the conference championship in the last 10 years. You forgot Illinois who has had some formidable line-ups. They haven't won recently but won back to back in the mid 2000s. This is a GREAT league with solid teams throughout. This isn't Gonzaga in the West Coast Conference.

If this was the WCC, we'd be at best San Diego (on a good year)