Dallas police officer convicted of murder

MnplsGopher

Active member
Yes, u are probably wise to let go of this. U are, after all, dealing with Texas Justice where the murderer gets hugs, and the witness to the murder gets murdered.
I don’t believe she had an ounce of malice towards the guy. Probably had never met before.

Prove me wrong. (Oh great, here come conspiracy theories about the Dallas PD being the KKK, for f’s sake....)
 

KillerGopherFan

Active member
You don’t think rationally when you believe you’re about to die.

No one here can deny that, if they haven’t been put into that emotional state before.


That’s how you get these officers blowing away people, and then you look at the tape and go “what the heck were you thinking????”


But as soon as we train officers differently, they’ll start dying more frequently. It takes a fraction of a second for someone to decide to kill you and rush at you with a knife or pull a gun.


It’s a lose lose. Either officers die or innocent people die.

I really can’t understand why people want to be police officers, to be honest. You deal with scum and s__tbird kids all day long, and occasionally someone who legit tries to kill you.
I don’t disagree in the majority of police involved shootings. I don’t feel good about this police officer serving one day in prison for her mistake, but she screwed up and she didn’t follow her training.

I think she should have been convicted of manslaughter and serve zero to a year, but lost her job as a police officer.

I’ve made the argument that few very good potential police officers will want this job, and we’ll have more of these instances.
 

MnplsGopher

Active member
Right, and again, I was never against the officer being charged with something and being punished.

I just don’t believe there was any malice, at all.

That seems to be a yarn spun by folks who want there to be this Illuminati conspiracy of white police officers desiring to murder innocent blacks. I don’t believe it.
 

GopherJake

Active member
When people that make mistakes - intended or unintended - and it costs someone their life, that person should pay a price. Particularly if that mistake is so careless. I'm glad she feels bad. I don't think she is the devil. But she sure as hell should pay a price. Zero days in jail? WTF? Oh, you would fire her? She was never going to work again as a police officer anyway. Yeah, stiff price.
 

KillerGopherFan

Active member
When people that make mistakes - intended or unintended - and it costs someone their life, that person should pay a price. Particularly if that mistake is so careless. I'm glad she feels bad. I don't think she is the devil. But she sure as hell should pay a price. Zero days in jail? WTF? Oh, you would fire her? She was never going to work again as a police officer anyway. Yeah, stiff price.
I’m not taking a hard line on that position. If I were on the jury I might be persuaded to give a harsher sentence. There certainly would be an opportunity for a civil case against her and she would likely pay a huge economic penalty.

Do people who cause deadly car accidents always go to jail for 10 years for a mistake while driving? She carries a weapon for her job. She made a horrible mistake that killed someone. I don’t see a lot of difference except that she failed to follow her training.
 

GopherJake

Active member
Do people who cause deadly car accidents always go to jail for 10 years for a mistake while driving?
I would imagine that yes, sometimes they do. She was a highly trained police officer. She knew better - she was entrusted to carry that weapon to protect us. Not to kill innocent people because she was scared. And who said it had to be 10 years. YOU said she should possibly get no jail time. For killing someone and being found guilty of murder. Think about that.
 

KillerGopherFan

Active member
For me, it’s more like involuntary manslaughter, possibly voluntary manslaughter.

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/involuntary-manslaughter-penalties-and-sentencing.html

Or

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/voluntary-manslaughter-overview.html

Involuntary manslaughter:

Causing another person's death through reckless behavior, or in the commission of another crime but without intent to kill, carries a lighter sentence than most other forms of homicide, like first or second degree murder. That's because society, (through it's judges and representatives), has determined that it's important to distinguish between the serial killer and the absent minded driver. A further distinction is also made between voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. The penalties and sentencing for voluntary manslaughter is more harsh than involuntary manslaughter penalties and sentencing.

Although involuntary manslaughter sentences differ among the states, the crime is usually treated as a felony at both the federal and state level. This means that it can be punished by at least 12 months imprisonment, fines and probation, among other sentences.

Involuntary Manslaughter Penalties and Sentencing: Federal Level

The base sentence for involuntary manslaughter under federal sentencing guidelines is a 10 to 16 month prison sentence, which increases if the crime was committed through an act of reckless conduct. The minimum sentence for involuntary manslaughter committed with an automobile is higher still, although judges may use a certain amount discretion in those cases.

Involuntary Manslaughter Penalties and Sentencing: State Level

While states often take their cues from the federal courts when drafting their own sentencing guidelines, they do vary widely on this issue. States will generally give a range of possible sentences and allow judges discretion in determining what sentence to actually impose.

In making their determination, judges will also look to any aggravating and mitigating factors to decide how harsh of a sentence to hand down. Aggravating factors are those that increase the severity of the crime and include things such as the defendant's history of reckless behavior. Mitigating factors tend to decrease the sentence, and typically involve factors such as the defendant's acceptance of responsibility for the crime and lack of criminal history.

Examples of Involuntary Manslaughter Penalties and Sentencing

Two examples illustrate the difference in sentences between state and federal cases, that of former California police officer Johannes Mehserle and Tommy Morgan, a member of the Navajo Nation in New Mexico.

In 2010, Mehserle was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in state court after he accidentally drew his pistol instead of his stun gun and fatally shot an unarmed man. At the time of his conviction, he received a two-year prison sentence. California's sentencing guidelines mandated a two- to four-year sentence.

Morgan was found guilty in federal court of killing a man while driving recklessly and under the influence of alcohol in 2011. He was charged in federal court because the killing took place on federal land. At the time of his conviction, he was sentenced to a 12-month prison term and three years' of supervised release.
 

bigtenchamps1899

credulous skeptic
Texas penal code 6.02: Requirement for culpability:

(d) Culpable mental states are classified according to relative degrees, from highest to lowest, as follows:

(1) intentional;

(2) knowing;

(3) reckless;

(4) criminal negligence.


Texas penal code 19.01: Types of Criminal Homicide:

(a) A person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence causes the death of an individual.

(b) Criminal homicide is murder, capital murder, manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.



Texas penal code 19.02: Murder

(b) A person commits an offense if he:

(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;
 

bigtenchamps1899

credulous skeptic
Trained to hit the body mass, which very possibly will kill. They’re not shooting for arms and legs, or heads for that matter. Not trying to avoid killing. Let’s put it that way.
but police don't always train to shoot center mass. they train to shoot to the head as well as the pelvic girdle and even sometimes the legs (shooting under cars for example). because the point is not to kill, it is to stop the threat.

any firearms instructor, law enforcement or civilian, will tell you that you shoot to stop the threat. it highlights the self-defense or defense of others aspect of defensive firearms use.

a bad guy can be unable to cause further harm and not be dead. if one goes from trying to stop the threat to intending to kill, that changes the mens rea.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

Over Macho Grande?
but police don't always train to shoot center mass. they train to shoot to the head as well as the pelvic girdle and even sometimes the legs (shooting under cars for example). because the point is not to kill, it is to stop the threat.

any firearms instructor, law enforcement or civilian, will tell you that you shoot to stop the threat. it highlights the self-defense or defense of others aspect of defensive firearms use.

a bad guy can be unable to cause further harm and not be dead. if one goes from trying to stop the threat to intending to kill, that changes the mens rea.
What?? Do you have to give blood???

 

MnplsGopher

Active member
She said it in her testimony.
I'll just believe you.

That alone doesn't prove 2nd degree murder. There has to be malice. I believe there was none. Why would there be??

Without that, we're talking about voluntary manslaughter vs. involuntary manslaughter.
 
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bottlebass

Main Member
I'll just believe you.

That alone doesn't prove 2nd degree murder. There has to be malice. I believe there was none. Why would there be??

Without that, we're talking about voluntary manslaughter vs. involuntary manslaughter.
All of this info is readily available. Quit being so stupid. She qualifies for 2 of the 3 and only needed to qualify 1.

What is Murder in Texas?
Pursuant to Penal Code § 19.02(b)(1) there are three ways murder may be alleged. A person commits murder when:

The person intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;
The person intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act that causes the death of an individual; or
The person causes the death of an individual during the commission or attempted commission of a felony.
 

bottlebass

Main Member
Nope. There is a difference between 2nd degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

Her's was the latter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(United_States_law)#Degrees


Note that "intent to kill" means *prior* intent to kill. That is correct. She's talking about in the moment (ie, she wasn't aiming for his leg, or something like that). You don't understand the difference and are conflating the two separate meanings.
You can remain stupid I don't care. I've explained the texas laws to you. She stated she intended to harm and kill him in her testimony which is why she got murder. Which is why her lawyers were being criticized for allowing her to say that. None of this is difficult. She was convicted properly.
 

MnplsGopher

Active member
Your fault for not understanding and conflating her testimony with the legal definition of intent to kill and what it means in the sense of differentiating 2nd degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

"Sometimes called a crime of passion murder, is any intentional killing that involves no prior intent to kill, ..."

Her testimony was only confirming an intentional killing, not confirming prior intent. That's your problem.
 

bottlebass

Main Member
Your fault for not understanding and conflating her testimony with the legal definition of intent to kill and what it means in the sense of differentiating 2nd degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

"Sometimes called a crime of passion murder, is any intentional killing that involves no prior intent to kill, ..."

Her testimony was only confirming an intentional killing, not confirming prior intent. That's your problem.
Try reading what constitutes murder in texas again... You are looking more foolishness than normal right now.

What is Murder in Texas?
Pursuant to Penal Code § 19.02(b)(1) there are three ways murder may be alleged. A person commits murder when:

The person intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;
The person intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act that causes the death of an individual; or
The person causes the death of an individual during the commission or attempted commission of a felony.
 
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