Could the U be too hard academically for football players?

[Gopher Placenta]

Interesting discussion. What's left of the old General College is now housed in CEHD, which has major offerings such as "Youth Studies." A Daily article on grade inflation at the U (worth reading) from 2010 includes a couple graphics in the sidebar that show the grade distribution among the various colleges. CEHD has the fourth highest distribution of A's (behind Dentistry, Nursing and Public Health) with 56.76% of all grades awarded being A's and 81.43% of all grades awarded at B- or above. Given majors such as "Youth Studies," a generous grading curve, and considerable resources in the form of tutors that regular students do not have available, there is no reason football players should not be able to succeed on the field and in the classroom.

That some 3/4ths of the current players seem to need to be babysat in what is really a rather forgiving academic environment is quite an indictment of Brewster's recruiting. Although that article a poster linked to on another thread from the Mason era about Asad Abdul-Khaliq shows that academic impotence has a long tradition here. One reason I support Jerry Kill and am willing to give him time to straighten out the program is that he seems to be a fundamentally decent man who values the academic component and holds players to the "student" half of the student-athlete role. I have faith that he is recruiting student-athletes who will rise to the role.

 

[BeLikeWisconsin]

I believe so, yes

Haven't we had some high-profile players like Hasan Lipscomb declared ineligible recently? That right there says it all. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE who the coach deems qualified to play on the team should ever encounter an academic problem at this school.

First, Jim Tressel used to teach a class on football coaching or something at OSU. We need that here! A nice, 5 credit class. Maybe have a follow up or something, then maybe something like Fundamentals of Weightlifting for another 5 credits.

Yes, if we treat the football program like a farm system for the NFL then we WILL end up with a roster full of NFL talent and we WILL make a BCS game. But apparently most on here would rather wallow in the regions of the Sun Bowl while knowing our athletes are learning something.

 

[RodentRampage]

Dance and Theatre are perfectly legitimate majors, as people do get jobs in dance and theatre, whether on the stage or backstage. You may be eating a lot of ramen noodles with that Dance of Theatre degree, of course, but that's your choice. Likewise, sports-related degrees are legitimate, people do take sports-related jobs, it takes a lot more than just players to run a team.

 

[GoAUpher]

NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE who the coach deems qualified to play on the team should ever encounter an academic problem at this school.

You should probably become a fan of an SEC school then.

 

[GoAUpher]

That some 3/4ths of the current players seem to need to be babysat in what is really a rather forgiving academic environment is quite an indictment of Brewster's recruiting.

I'd say it has more to do with his discipline policies. Kill never said 63 kids were struggling in class. He suggested that 63 kids had to be watched to make sure they attend class. If Brew never stressed attendance then Kill would have to do what he's doing to break that habit.

 

[BeLikeWisconsin]

You should probably become a fan of an SEC school then.

You should probably go be a fan of an IVY league school then. I want the U to win football games. That's why we bring these players here, isn't it? I mean, what gets you excited when you hear about Coach Kill talking with some high-profile recruit from out-of-state:

a) The fact that he might come here and help our football team
b) The fact that he might come here and get an education

And don't blow smoke up my *** by saying both. If you truly care about them and their studies, when was the last time you followed up with any of them after graduation? Probably never. You lose interest as soon as their playing career is over. Two-faced is how I see some of you people - you want the athletes here to win games, but you don't mind throwing major academic roadblocks in their path.

 

[John Galt]

Here's the Big 10 Order:

1. Northwestern (by a long ways)
2. Michigan
3. Minnesota
4. Wisconsin
5. Purdue
6. Penn St.
7. Ohio St.
8. Illionis
9. Indiana
10. Michigan St.
11. Iowa
12. Nebraska

Northwestern and Michigan are solidly #1/#2. The difference between #3-#9 is minimal and pretty subjective, I put my maroon colored glasses on and ranked Minnesota #3. Michigan St. is little below these schools, with Iowa/Nebraska clearly at the bottom of the barrel.

 

[disco]

You should probably go be a fan of an IVY league school then. I want the U to win football games. That's why we bring these players here, isn't it? I mean, what gets you excited when you hear about Coach Kill talking with some high-profile recruit from out-of-state:

a) The fact that he might come here and help our football team
b) The fact that he might come here and get an education

And don't blow smoke up my *** by saying both. If you truly care about them and their studies, when was the last time you followed up with any of them after graduation? Probably never. You lose interest as soon as their playing career is over. Two-faced is how I see some of you people - you want the athletes here to win games, but you don't mind throwing major academic roadblocks in their path.

This.

 

[GoAUpher]

You should probably go be a fan of an IVY league school then. I want the U to win football games. That's why we bring these players here, isn't it? I mean, what gets you excited when you hear about Coach Kill talking with some high-profile recruit from out-of-state:

a) The fact that he might come here and help our football team
b) The fact that he might come here and get an education

And don't blow smoke up my *** by saying both. If you truly care about them and their studies, when was the last time you followed up with any of them after graduation? Probably never. You lose interest as soon as their playing career is over. Two-faced is how I see some of you people - you want the athletes here to win games, but you don't mind throwing major academic roadblocks in their path.

Weird...I want the team to win too. And the answer to your questions is of course B. But "the coach says so" is not a good reason to admit a kid. I hope that Kill is looking at admission policies and looking for ways to improve things in this area. I don't want to see major roadblocks either (it's an area that has always been rumored to be a concern with improving the program so I'm betting Kill is looking at it). And I'm not a guy who has problems with kids with so-so academic backgrounds getting in to the U. But the idea that if the coach wants him he should always get it is just laughable. Sorry to burst your bubble there.

 

[RodentRampage]

And don't blow smoke up my *** by saying both. If you truly care about them and their studies, when was the last time you followed up with any of them after graduation? Probably never. You lose interest as soon as their playing career is over. Two-faced is how I see some of you people - you want the athletes here to win games, but you don't mind throwing major academic roadblocks in their path.

Despite your attempts to tell me what I am forbidden to think, I chose both. No one is "blowing smoke up your ***" by taking this position. Your claim that if you care about athletes education, we should be following them the rest of their lives is peculiar. A professor may care about the students education, but that doesn't mean they closely follow how the students did after they graduate. The professor has a new class of students to deal with. If a former player goes on to do something noteworthy, whether it is sports-related or not, people are going to be interested.

There's nothing two-faced about it. We want the players to win games, and we want them to get an education. What is two-faced is just using them to win games, but cheating them out of an education. The purpose of college is education after all.

 

[BeLikeWisconsin]

There's nothing two-faced about it. We want the players to win games, and we want them to get an education.

Speak for yourself. I want them to be able to *choose* to get an education. If they want to do like Christian Ponder and graduate early and get an MBA, by all means, do it! But if you just want to lift weights and play football and major in "football studies" with an inflated C average, do it!

What is two-faced is just using them to win games, but cheating them out of an education. The purpose of college is education after all.

ONE of the purposes of college is education. Another is having championship football and basketball teams. The two shouldn't have to overlap.

 

[Unregistered User]

Of course it's too hard academically...for the stupid ones. But why would you even bring up that they're stupid? For the shock value?

You have a strange sense of humor.

 

[RodentRampage]

Speak for yourself. I want them to be able to *choose* to get an education. If they want to do like Christian Ponder and graduate early and get an MBA, by all means, do it! But if you just want to lift weights and play football and major in "football studies" with an inflated C average, do it!

You use phrases very strangely. "Speak for yourself" implies that I was attempting to speak for you, or speaking for all Gopher fans. Clearly, I'm not attempting to do either of those. "We" clearly refers to the many people who think sports and academics can and must coexist.

ONE of the purposes of college is education. Another is having championship football and basketball teams. The two shouldn't have to overlap.

No. The purpose of a college is education. Period. Sports are extracurricular activities. The two should have to overlap. But you're in luck! There exists sports leagues where the players don't have to concern themselves with academics at all. You might want to look into the NFL, NHL, MLB and NBA.

 

[Unregistered User]

There exists sports leagues where the players don't have to concern themselves with academics at all. You might want to look into the NFL, NHL, MLB and NBA and Badger Football.

Fixed

 

[popeyoung5]

How many people with a BA actually work in the major? It only matters that You have the degree for most people. I am an economics major. Been in sales management for 30 years. Bottom line is the U is not in the Stanford, Cal, UCLA, Northwestern academic elite and those schools are competitive on the gridiron.

 

[Gold Vision]

How many people with a BA actually work in the major? It only matters that You have the degree for most people. I am an economics major. Been in sales management for 30 years. Bottom line is the U is not in the Stanford, Cal, UCLA, Northwestern academic elite and those schools are competitive on the gridiron.

Minnesota is a top 10 economics school ranked ahead of Cal, UCLA and UW.

 

[zambam]

ONE of the purposes of college is education. Another is having championship football and basketball teams. The two shouldn't have to overlap.

Yes, this is what they thought of when they created colleges. College is about winning championships in football and basketball. Lol. Some people are WAY to into sports if that is an actual belief of people here.

 

[Gopher Placenta]

I'd say it has more to do with his discipline policies. Kill never said 63 kids were struggling in class. He suggested that 63 kids had to be watched to make sure they attend class. If Brew never stressed attendance then Kill would have to do what he's doing to break that habit.

Fair enough. We don't know what the complete academic picture is for those 63 players. Some may be capable of learning the material and pulling down acceptable grades without attending class. I think that unlikely, at least for all 63, but I agree with your statement to that extent. Nevertheless, attending class is a basic expectation of collegians. If 63 players are of the type that would not bother attending class absent intense monitoring, I would say that the blame lies with the players first and with Brewster's discipline policies second. There needs to some self-accountability among the student-athletes. This is not to say that Brewster should not be held to account for his lax discipline, just to say that I think it does not speak highly of the type of student he recruited to begin with.

To clarify, at one of his press conferences, Kill stated that he inherited 22 academically ineligible players. That's around 1/4 of the roster and still an embarrassment.

 

[disco]

Yes, this is what they thought of when they created colleges. College is about winning championships in football and basketball. Lol. Some people are WAY to into sports if that is an actual belief of people here.

I don't think anyone believes this.

I do think however that a LOT of people - perhaps even a majority of college football fans, would be willing to look the other way when it comes to cheating (academic, grade fixing, payments) for players if it means winning championships. Is that right? No, certainly not, but I bet it's true.

 

[GoAUpher]

Fair enough. We don't know what the complete academic picture is for those 63 players. Some may be capable of learning the material and pulling down acceptable grades without attending class. I think that unlikely, at least for all 63, but I agree with your statement to that extent. Nevertheless, attending class is a basic expectation of collegians. If 63 players are of the type that would not bother attending class absent intense monitoring, I would say that the blame lies with the players first and with Brewster's discipline policies second. There needs to some self-accountability among the student-athletes. This is not to say that Brewster should not be held to account for his lax discipline, just to say that I think it does not speak highly of the type of student he recruited to begin with.

To clarify, at one of his press conferences, Kill stated that he inherited 22 academically ineligible players. That's around 1/4 of the roster and still an embarrassment.

Yea, I wasn't trying to say all were doing ok (22 guys with academic issues upon Kill's arrive would certainly suggest otherwise). I was just trying to say that it's unlikely that all 63 were in the "academic issues" boat. Sure the blame is with the players first as it's their choice to go or not go. But it's the coaching staff's job to add additional penalties/enforcement to make it stick (remember that not all classes have formal attendance requirements). FWIW, making a broad statement about the quality of student based on attendance issues the extent of which we don't know is silly. I graduated with honors and there were several courses I never attended b/c they lacked an attendance requirement and I could get an A just doing the reading.

 

[Gopher Placenta]

FWIW, making a broad statement about the quality of student based on attendance issues the extent of which we don't know is silly. I graduated with honors and there were several courses I never attended b/c they lacked an attendance requirement and I could get an A just doing the reading.

I understand. I graduated with honors as well and frankly can't remember which, if any, classes had formal attendance requirements. Most at the 1xxx and 3xxx level were so large, nobody would notice or care about an absence. The 5xxx level seminars are a different story. But yes, there certainly are no shortage of U classes that do not require attendance to perform well, especially as grade inflation marches ever forward. That's why I conceded that it is possible.

I think at some point, though, one also has to look at the 22 players who are outright academically ineligible along with the time Kill has devoted to discussing the team's academic issues and make the not unreasonable deduction that a chunk of the rest of the 63 are likely struggling as well. Then again, I may just be letting my own background of having lived in the football dorm (Sanford, at least when I was there) taint my perceptions. If nothing else, I think we agree that 22 academically ineligible student-athletes is too many.

 

[nsmike]

Let's face it if you have the ACT/SAT score to get into the U, 70 to 80% of the classes at the U can be passed by simply showing up and doing the work. Some students can skip class and still get good grades but some can't. The ones that can't quickly dig a hole they can't get out of. Coach Kill knows this so he's making sure the kids go to class and depends on the academic staff to get them into appropriate courses.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

If the school is too hard for any of the players, then so is memorizing plays and snap counts. I don't want any Gophers that can't handle the academic rigor of the U.

 

[McGopherFan]

Why not have a major in professional athletics? It works for accountant. Perhaps an ethics and behavior course would benefit future NFL, NBA etc players stay out of the ummmm penalty box.

 

[zambam]

Why not have a major in professional athletics? It works for accountant. Perhaps an ethics and behavior course would benefit future NFL, NBA etc players stay out of the ummmm penalty box.

Could include in it something about how to handle the money you get responsibly so that maybe they don't need as much money and salaries will lower and tickets will cost less?! lol

 

[Iceland12]

Fair enough. We don't know what the complete academic picture is for those 63 players. l.

We went through this a week or so ago. 63 weren't in danger of failing. Kill said he needed the 63 "to get a B" because of APR issues.

 

[Killjoy]

Yea but...

We went through this a week or so ago. 63 weren't in danger of failing. Kill said he needed the 63 "to get a B" because of APR issues.

....if that isn't true what are people going to have as their "sky is falling issue"? We then need a new crisis. How about we start a thread that Nelson is not going to be upgraded to four stars because he is too short? Maybe then we he can have a discussion on whether if wear platform shoes he could be a four star recruit. Oh the never ending ups and downs in the life of a Gopher football fan.