After further review

[Bayfieldgopher]

After being at the game and watching some USC highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETwkApcBLMM I offer the following observations:
1. Our D will struggle all year for three major reasons: Lacking a game ready safety, DB & DE. Unless #24 grows up quickly or Royster comes back, our DB play will be inadequate. I don't like to criticize players but Manuel is not ready to play FT. Same with whoever they throw out there at DE. True frosh DB's #24 and #21 did 360's while "covering" USC receivers on the two TD's.
2. The Gophers will struggle to make the stretch play work due to slow OL and lacking a fast RB. Our running game will mainly be between the tackles against a D with above average speed.
3. I am confused why we didn't check off to the WR when USC loaded the box with 9 defenders. Our OL was outmanned by USC DL but it was tough trying to get yards with 8 & even 9 in the box.
4. Our D lacks a star player. Even though Tinsley had 10 tackles, he is not a force in the middle. At this point, Tinsley and Rallis do not compare to Campbell and Triplett.
5. Three observations on two USC TD's: On the KO return, both my son and I thought our guy was blocked in the back even though he was not in position to make the tackle. After watching the replay I still feel the same way. Also Tinsley was held on the last USC TD as the blocker had his arm around his shoulder. Yet #24 froze and Theret was out of position to make the tackle. I am not blaming the refs for the loss but both were no calls that would have helped our cause.
6. The Gophers continue to make plays that help us to lose. Edwards face mask after a great sack that kept us from getting decent field position, our punt hit the foot of our defender, KO out of bounds after our first TD and Weber throwing it up for grabs (INT) rather than throwing the ball away after being flushed out of the pocket.
7. I respect the coaches sticking with the game plan but they need to mix it up. We were too predictable and did very little to try keep USC off balance.
8. Where is Carter and all his hyped talent?
9. I missed the SDU game but watched it on TV. Many say our D played better against USC. Maybe so but this group has to make major improvements and in a hurry.

Fire away.

 

[metrolax]

Only in SoCal would they put THAT music to CFB highlights......

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

You're 100% right on the block in the back. You can say that on about half of kick returns though. Some just get missed. There isn't a star on D. I'd say Willie was the last defensive star the Gophers had. Kirksey, Tinsley and Cooper all have potential, but they aren't nearly there yet.

Take out Kirkwood's one nice run and the run game was crappy all day. Passing game had some success, should have gone to that more often.

 

[Rosemountian]

The team went 3 and out 2 times in the game. (out of 12 possessions)
Of these 2 3-and-outs 1 was 3rd and 12, one was 3rd and 2.
The team was 6/14 on 3rd downs (42%...better than USC's 40%)

Of the teams 14 3rd down attempts, 6 were 8 yards or more. So that means less then half of them were of that length, not "constantly."
Of those 6 that were 8 yards of more, 2 were in the second half. So the gophers were only 3rd and 8+ twice in the second half.
Of those 6 that were 8 yards or more, 1 was at the end of the first half when running the clock out, 3 were converted.
So of the 5 that they actually attempted to get the 1st down on 3rd and 8+, they converted 60% of them.


On 3rd downs Weber was 5/9 107yds 1TD 1 INT
On other downs Weber was 10/20 117yds 1 TD 1 INT
Weber threw the ball as well, if not better, on 3rd down then he did on other downs. Over 2/3 of his pass attempts were on 1st and 2nd down.


Stop ripping the gameplan. It wasn't the problem. They threw more on 1st and 2nd down then they did not third down. Weber was more successful on 3rd down then 1st and 2nd. They were mixing it up fine.


People can say they needed to mix it up more, but you weren't really paying attention if you think that is the case. Go back and look at the play by play.

 

[dpodoll68]

The punt didn't touch Vereen.

Weber continues to make 2-3 brilliant plays per game, and also miss throws that a Jr. High QB could make.

Manuel is fine - just can't cover one of the best WRs in the nation one-on-one, as few/no safeties in the country can.

I have no problem with running the ball primarily, but they need to mix it up a little bit in how they run. Counters, end arounds, more pulling, etc.

Our D, without question, played much better against USC.

 

[josh087]

The team went 3 and out 2 times in the game. (out of 12 possessions)
Of these 2 3-and-outs 1 was 3rd and 12, one was 3rd and 2.
The team was 6/14 on 3rd downs (42%...better than USC's 40%)

Of the teams 14 3rd down attempts, 6 were 8 yards or more. So that means less then half of them were of that length, not "constantly."
Of those 6 that were 8 yards of more, 2 were in the second half. So the gophers were only 3rd and 8+ twice in the second half.
Of those 6 that were 8 yards or more, 1 was at the end of the first half when running the clock out, 3 were converted.
So of the 5 that they actually attempted to get the 1st down on 3rd and 8+, they converted 60% of them.


On 3rd downs Weber was 5/9 107yds 1TD 1 INT
On other downs Weber was 10/20 117yds 1 TD 1 INT
Weber threw the ball as well, if not better, on 3rd down then he did on other downs. Over 2/3 of his pass attempts were on 1st and 2nd down.


Stop ripping the gameplan. It wasn't the problem. They threw more on 1st and 2nd down then they did not third down. Weber was more successful on 3rd down then 1st and 2nd. They were mixing it up fine.


People can say they needed to mix it up more, but you weren't really paying attention if you think that is the case. Go back and look at the play by play.

The Gophers threw 3 passes on first downs out of 17 situations in the first three quarters of the game - one per quarter. They were 1-2 with a pass interference penalty. Sure, they threw more in the 4th once they were down two touchdowns, but when it was still a contest, they did not even attempt to mix it up at all.

I appreciate the gameplan of sticking to the rush, and I probably wouldn't change the number of rush attempts in the game, but even mixing in just 2-3 more passes on first downs while it was still a competitive game could have made a huge impact in the game, particularly on how USC was putting 8 or 9 in the "box" on every first down.

The Badgers - the team we're trying to emulate - threw on first down 11 out of 19 times in the first half, and 13 out of 26 times in the first three quarters of their game vs. Arizona State, as they loaded up to stop John Clay. That's half of their pass attempts in the entire game just on first downs in the first three quarters. They threw only 25 passes compared to 42 rush attempts.

Point being - you can stick with the ground game while mixing in passes on first downs to keep the other team off balance.

 

[monk10]

Anybody know how many times they put 8-9 in the box when we had Alford in for our 6th lineman and the times they didn't?

 

[SonOfTheVarsity]

The team went 3 and out 2 times in the game. (out of 12 possessions)
Of these 2 3-and-outs 1 was 3rd and 12, one was 3rd and 2.
The team was 6/14 on 3rd downs (42%...better than USC's 40%)

Of the teams 14 3rd down attempts, 6 were 8 yards or more. So that means less then half of them were of that length, not "constantly."
Of those 6 that were 8 yards of more, 2 were in the second half. So the gophers were only 3rd and 8+ twice in the second half.
Of those 6 that were 8 yards or more, 1 was at the end of the first half when running the clock out, 3 were converted.
So of the 5 that they actually attempted to get the 1st down on 3rd and 8+, they converted 60% of them.


On 3rd downs Weber was 5/9 107yds 1TD 1 INT
On other downs Weber was 10/20 117yds 1 TD 1 INT
Weber threw the ball as well, if not better, on 3rd down then he did on other downs. Over 2/3 of his pass attempts were on 1st and 2nd down.


Stop ripping the gameplan. It wasn't the problem. They threw more on 1st and 2nd down then they did not third down. Weber was more successful on 3rd down then 1st and 2nd. They were mixing it up fine.


People can say they needed to mix it up more, but you weren't really paying attention if you think that is the case. Go back and look at the play by play.

Alright, you're using all of the passes from junk time to argue that the playbook was mixed. After it got to 32-14, we abandoned the run-first gameplan and aired it out more. I don't think those passes bear any sort of reflection on how well the playbook was mixed in the first three quarters.

Before the game got to 32-14, and we started to pass more, we passed on four first downs. And two of those four were with 2 minutes in the second when we tried a two-minute offense (before Weber threw the pick). So on first downs when we were running our normal offense, we tried 2 passes. That's not a good mix. By the way, those two passes were both completions and went for a combined 28 yards.

On second downs in the normal, gameplanned offense, we passed twice. Two passes on second downs. That's not a good mix. When we were running what I consider the normal offense, we passed on four combined first and second downs.

And I still don't get how a ball-control, pound-the-run gameplan is successful when we rushed for 83 yards and had less TOP than USC.

 

[Doc1001]

Here is what I think

and I am sure you are all just waiting in anticipation *wink*. At first Brewster went too much to the pass with his spread ideas had running as a sidelight. Now he is going too much to the running game and passing is a sidelight. Unless you are a team such as USC in their prime you cant get by with mainly pounding the rock for the whole game. You cant run without a reasonable passing threat. And you cant pass without a reasonable running attack. If we think we are going to dominate the big ten with primarily a running attack---you will see them stop us cold. I think football has evolved. It used to be three yards and a cloud of dust. Nowadays good teams can stop the run as the interior athletes are so strong and speedy. Passing is becoming more and more of an effective route for most teams and teams that dont realize that are in for a letdown. This has happened on the pro level too. Its all in balance. I think maybe the reason Brewster has gone so much for the pound the rock philosophy is to keep the defense off the field---i.e. USC. But if your defense is so weak that you have to chew up time with running more than a balanced team should--then you are admitting you lack talent and that kind of team is not going to win anyway. My main point is yes---you need to pound the rock---but it wont work as soon as you face a reasonable defense---without a reasonable passing game. I hope in the big ten we dont try to run just to keep the defense off the field---but try to mix it up----and also get a little more imagination with the running---faking the pass with play action --rolling out--- ends around--run wide---spread that defense way way out. Even more passes to the back can do this. We simply are digging our graves by trying to base our offensive philosophy on pounding the rock up the middle. The Big Ten will spit in our faces.

 

[cncmin]

The team went 3 and out 2 times in the game. (out of 12 possessions)
Of these 2 3-and-outs 1 was 3rd and 12, one was 3rd and 2.
The team was 6/14 on 3rd downs (42%...better than USC's 40%)

Of the teams 14 3rd down attempts, 6 were 8 yards or more. So that means less then half of them were of that length, not "constantly."
Of those 6 that were 8 yards of more, 2 were in the second half. So the gophers were only 3rd and 8+ twice in the second half.
Of those 6 that were 8 yards or more, 1 was at the end of the first half when running the clock out, 3 were converted.
So of the 5 that they actually attempted to get the 1st down on 3rd and 8+, they converted 60% of them.


On 3rd downs Weber was 5/9 107yds 1TD 1 INT
On other downs Weber was 10/20 117yds 1 TD 1 INT
Weber threw the ball as well, if not better, on 3rd down then he did on other downs. Over 2/3 of his pass attempts were on 1st and 2nd down.


Stop ripping the gameplan. It wasn't the problem. They threw more on 1st and 2nd down then they did not third down. Weber was more successful on 3rd down then 1st and 2nd. They were mixing it up fine.


People can say they needed to mix it up more, but you weren't really paying attention if you think that is the case. Go back and look at the play by play.

So they converted all those 3rd downs - way more than usual or even expected, and yet they STILL only scored 14 points outside of junk time, and only 21 total for a game at home. Yippie!!!!!!!! Stats are worthless when they mean nothing. Those mean nothing.

 

[Word]

So - someone that watched on TV - did that punt really hit the gopher player? It was pretty hard to tell from my nosebleed seats at the game. Of course there were no replays at the stadium either.

 

[Art Vandelay]

So - someone that watched on TV - did that punt really hit the gopher player? It was pretty hard to tell from my nosebleed seats at the game. Of course there were no replays at the stadium either.

Nope. The ball backed up like my 60 degree lob wedge and the refs were fooled. The call on the field was that it hit Vereen's foot and the replay was not 100% conclusive so they couldn't overturn the call. Had it been the other way around it wouldn't have been overturned either.

 

[Rosemountian]

So they converted all those 3rd downs - way more than usual or even expected, and yet they STILL only scored 14 points outside of junk time, and only 21 total for a game at home. Yippie!!!!!!!! Stats are worthless when they mean nothing. Those mean nothing.

Score is the only stat that matters. And the gameplan they were using was the gameplan that gave them the best chance to have a higher score at the end.

The plan was not to score 50, the plan was to score 1 more than USC. It didn't work. If people honestly wanted Weber to air it out on USC or "mix it up" more than they did.....godspeed. There is a reason you people aren't D1 football coaches.

Why do people want the team to throw more on first down? Because they want to avoid tough 3rd downs. Well what if the team did avoid tough third downs? (they did) And what if the team was successful on third downs? (they were) And what if they were running more on first down and 2nd down because USC was playing cover 2? (they were) And what if they were throwing more often and successfully on 3rd down because USC was running man free? (they were)

What say you then?
It is easy to throw some stuff on the wall. It is not so easy to actually come up with something that could actually work.

 

[dcboe]

I would like to see more play action and screen passes.

 

[Oneoldgopher]

The plan was not to score 50, the plan was to score 1 more than USC. It didn't work.

Really, the game plan was to stay 1 TD ahead! C'mon! That is a possible outcome, but it is not part of the planning process. It may be part of predictive statistics, but that is not part of the planning process -- anywhere. Pure fantasy land.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

Rosemountain said: "There is a reason you people aren't D1 football coaches"

And he is?

 

[monk10]

Anybody know how many times they put 8-9 in the box when we had Alford in for our 6th lineman and the times they didn't?

Anybody who has more time then me to watch film? Someone ping MV maybe he can blog about the effect of our attempt to go big on them?

 

[thailleagle]

The "Gameplan" had us down 32-14 in the 4th Quarter...

The Offensive Gameplan was bailed out on USC's lack of Discipline & bonehead plays at critical times...

And don't mention how we were ahead in the 3rd...did we win? No, stop making excuses. That's like being happy that we were tied with Ohio State 17-17 going into Halftime back in 2005...

Stop It...

 

[Unregistered User]

The "Gameplan" had us down 32-14 in the 4th Quarter...

The Offensive Gameplan was bailed out on USC's lack of Discipline & bonehead plays at critical times...

And don't mention how we were ahead in the 3rd...did we win? No, stop making excuses. That's like being happy that we were tied with Ohio State 17-17 going into Halftime back in 2005...

Stop It...

Maybe you should format all of your posts in all caps and bold. I'm not sure that I'm getting the gist of your message. But don't let that stop you from posting virtually the same message on every thread here.

 

[WolfontheProwl]

Gameplans must change.

Hey I think the gameplan entering the game was fine. Run the ball, control the clock, and make USC show some depth on defense. The thing is though if you are only going to get 1 yard on first down and the opponent is going to play 8 and 9 in the box you have to take advantage of that. It would be one thing if we were gaining 4 yards every carry even against the stacked defense but we were not. We were getting stuck in 3rd and 7 all the time when we could have tried some quick passing plays or play action.

I have zero confidence in our lineman getting downfield to block on screen passes so I am not sure that is the answer. I would rather see them spread the field and dump the ball to a runningback in space. On this note I also dont think running to the outside is ever going to work as mentioned above. I dont care about the speed of our RB's that isnt the problem its simply impossible to get our lineman out in front of the play. Having experience is great having talent is important too and our lineman are just not good enough athletes as a group to do some of those things. Hopefully some of these younger guys will be going forward. I think the Olson kid looks pretty solid at LT for a red shirt freshman at a tough position.

I will argue the defense in this one. We had players in much better position in the USC game compared to the USD debacle. Theret being back helped in some ways and we did get more pressure than the week before but its not enough. Young defenders are going to make mistakes and unfortunatly we made 3 or 4 very costly mistakes that changed the game in the second half. If we can play like we did against USC we will win several more games this year but will that be enough I dont know? The USD game still has me torked with this coaching staff in general. If you beat the teams you should and pull the occassional upset fans will be happy, lose to teams that you have no buisness losing to like USD and you get fired before long.

 

[monk10]

Stop It...

I love irony.

 

[monk10]

Hey I think the gameplan entering the game was fine. Run the ball, control the clock, and make USC show some depth on defense. The thing is though if you are only going to get 1 yard on first down and the opponent is going to play 8 and 9 in the box you have to take advantage of that.

Did they only play 8 or 9 in the box when we had alford in as our TE? Can anyone answer this seriously? From my seat in the game it appeared to me they played a cover 2 when we had 5 linemen in and played a more 4-4 look when we brough alford in.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

The "Gameplan" had us down 32-14 in the 4th Quarter...

The Offensive Gameplan was bailed out on USC's lack of Discipline & bonehead plays at critical times...

And don't mention how we were ahead in the 3rd...did we win? No, stop making excuses. That's like being happy that we were tied with Ohio State 17-17 going into Halftime back in 2005...

Stop It...

Ummmm, leading the game with 5 minutes left in the third is a LITTLE bit different than being tied at halftime, Charlie Brown.

Considering USC entered the game with more penalty yards than anyone else in the country, I would argue that USC had fewer bonehead plays and lack of discipline than they had in their two previous games. Nobody should be shocked that USC made some mistakes to help out the Gophers.

 

[RodentRampage]

Newsflash: USC is a better team than Minnesota.

 

[SonOfTheVarsity]

Score is the only stat that matters. And the gameplan they were using was the gameplan that gave them the best chance to have a higher score at the end.

The plan was not to score 50, the plan was to score 1 more than USC. It didn't work. If people honestly wanted Weber to air it out on USC or "mix it up" more than they did.....godspeed. There is a reason you people aren't D1 football coaches.

Why do people want the team to throw more on first down? Because they want to avoid tough 3rd downs. Well what if the team did avoid tough third downs? (they did) And what if the team was successful on third downs? (they were) And what if they were running more on first down and 2nd down because USC was playing cover 2? (they were) And what if they were throwing more often and successfully on 3rd down because USC was running man free? (they were)

What say you then?
It is easy to throw some stuff on the wall. It is not so easy to actually come up with something that could actually work.

No, throwing on first down is not only to avoid tough third downs. It's to gain yards and move the ball downfield to score. It's to make sure that USC couldn't stack 8-9 in the box every single first and second down (they did). You don't think a passing threat would have helped the run game? It wouldn't have helped to at least make USC worry about the pass on first down, so they couldn't just wait for the run and stuff it?

And I'm not sure what sort of cover two they were playing on first down, but it was certainly the type where nine guys were within four yards of the line of scrimmage.

I love a good ground game and a ball control offense, but at some point, if it isn't working well, you have to try something else. And I'm certainly not advocating going to the spread and airing it out, either. But you have to throw more to keep the defense guessing and, at the very least, to keep them honest. I can't believe the idea that our best chance to win was stubbornly sticking to an unsuccessful running attack without ever mixing it up. After all, that gameplan got us in a 32-14 hole. I don't think that's the best we could have--or should have--done.

 

[cncmin]

Rosemountain said: "There is a reason you people aren't D1 football coaches"

And he is?

As if D1 football coaches are so utterly intelligent or something...
*yikes* Rosemountain. Football is fairly complicated as sports go, yet all sports are simple.

 

[thailleagle]

Maybe you should format all of your posts in all caps and bold. I'm not sure that I'm getting the gist of your message. But don't let that stop you from posting virtually the same message on every thread here.

Maybe u should try to counter what I said...oh wait...you can't...

 

[thailleagle]

Ummmm, leading the game with 5 minutes left in the third is a LITTLE bit different than being tied at halftime, Charlie Brown.

Considering USC entered the game with more penalty yards than anyone else in the country, I would argue that USC had fewer bonehead plays and lack of discipline than they had in their two previous games. Nobody should be shocked that USC made some mistakes to help out the Gophers.

A Moral Victory is still a Moral Victory...

Did we win? Did the "Gameplan" give us a "W"...???

 

[josh087]

A Moral Victory is still a Moral Victory...

Did we win? Did the "Gameplan" give us a "W"...???

Good God, enough is enough.

Are you really that dumb, or do you think we are? It's either one of the two. I actually believe you're not an idiot (giving you more credit than most on this board), but if for some reason you are trying to prove it's the latter, yet you know you're not fooling anyone.

Whether or not the Gophers actually won the game with the gameplan they put into place is not really the point and you know it. As an extreme example that I hope you can comprehend, I could have the best gameplan in the history of football with a Pop Warner team in town and they would still lose to the New Orleans Saints As a more realistic example (again, one that you should easily be able to comprehend) in the competitive landscape that is major college football, even the best gameplan doesn't always ensure a W when the opposing team has more talented players.

If you can admit that USC has more talent, the question becomes did the gameplan give the Gophers the best possible chance to win? You seem to disagree with the Gophers gameplan. Fine, its your opinon. I at least gave some statistical data on why I thought the Gophers should have passed more on First down, citing the Wisconsin 1st down passng attack. However, you offer no solution of your own.

 

[thailleagle]

Good God, enough is enough.

Are you really that dumb, or do you think we are? It's either one of the two. I actually believe you're not an idiot (giving you more credit than most on this board), but if for some reason you are trying to prove it's the latter you know you're not fooling anyone.

Whether or not the Gophers actually won the game with the gameplan they put into place is not really the point and you know it. As an extreme example that I hope you can comprehend, I could have the best gameplan in the history of football with a Pop Warner team in town and they would still lose to the New Orleans Saints As a more realistic example (again, one that you should easily be able to comprehend) in the competitive landscape that is major college football, even the best gameplan doesn't always ensure a W when the opposing team has more talented players.

If you can admit that USC has more talent, the question becomes did the gameplan give the Gophers the best possible chance to win? You seem to disagree with the Gophers gameplan. Fine, its your opinon. I at least gave some statistical data on why I thought the Gophers should have passed more on First down, citing the Wisconsin 1st down passng attack. However, you offer no solution of your own.

My problem...is that people are satisfied with the Gameplan because at one point we had a lead but not realizing that USC adjusted to our Gameplan & we didn't respond by readjusting. Go watch the game again & you'll see we had a lot of breaks that could've ended drives prematurely. We might not get that lucky against NIU, feel me?

We kept running the same "Run, Run, Pass" routine even after we were down 2 scores. It was very "Mason-like" & at what point do you realize averaging 2.2 yards per play isn't gonna get it done?

And I agree, we should've passed it on first down a few times just to mix it up...we became *TOO* predictable...