4* recruits in each of last six classes! Has Pitino turned the corner?

Otis

Active member
2020 Mitchell
2019 Ihnen, Williams
2018 Oturu (stud), Kalesheur 3* (diamond in the rough)
2017 Washington (flamed out)
2016 Coffey, Curry (ranked 114)
2015 Dorsey (flamed out), Murphy 3* (best recruit ever for Pitino)

That's a pretty good haul of talent for a team stuck in the bottom half of the B1G for a while. He is set up to land his best class yet if he gets 2 of Mashburn, Walton and Garcia. Recruiting definitely is showing an increase in quality as the years go by.

I'm not even including Carr and Willis, although I think Carr may have been a 4*.

You can complain about the teams records since he has been here, but you cannot say he isn't building up the program in talent despite missing the big fishes from Minnesota so far. Without the bad luck and poor off-court decisions by players, you could easily point out the program is going up!

You go Pitino!

Go Gophers!
 
2020 Mitchell
2019 Ihnen, Williams
2018 Oturu (stud), Kalesheur 3* (diamond in the rough)
2017 Washington (flamed out)
2016 Coffey, Curry (ranked 114)
2015 Dorsey (flamed out), Murphy 3* (best recruit ever for Pitino)

That's a pretty good haul of talent for a team stuck in the bottom half of the B1G for a while. He is set up to land his best class yet if he gets 2 of Mashburn, Walton and Garcia. Recruiting definitely is showing an increase in quality as the years go by.

I'm not even including Carr and Willis, although I think Carr may have been a 4*.

You can complain about the teams records since he has been here, but you cannot say he isn't building up the program in talent despite missing the big fishes from Minnesota so far. Without the bad luck and poor off-court decisions by players, you could easily point out the program is going up!

You go Pitino!

Go Gophers!
Player development will trump star ranking. Also a lot of sites have added more 4 stars each year. Used to be top 100 were 4 stars. Now the top 125 are 4 stars. Now that being said I think Pitino has recruited better than the past couple coaches and is still trending upward.

I do differ on your opinion of Pitinos top recruit. I think that distinction goes to Coffey and will soon be Oturo or Gabe. Also I’d add Jarvis Johnson to the group of 4 stars with the Dorsey group
 

Gopherbbdude

Active member
The Jarvis situation could be my biggest disappoint. of course it was uncontrollable, but man...Last years team with him at the helm...could have been something special.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

Active member
I'm not a big recruiting rankings guy when it comes to coaching evaluation. I think they are most relevant in a coach's first couple years when they are coaching mostly the last guy's recruits (still an important skill),and then you can look and say things like "well, his first full class are freshmen, so we haven't seen much out if then yet, but I'm optimistic because they look good on paper, and the next class looks even better." Once a coach has his own guys becoming upper classmen, I'd rather evaluate his recruiting based on how well those recruits actually pan out.

Pitino has had some good ones. As noted above, Gabe and Murph were great gets. But what impresses me about them is not their stars, but the fact that they turned into productive B1G players.
 

salzie

Active member
To Turn corner he needs to win consistently


And I say that as a Pitino Backer, but I don't want to wait 6 years for another Tourney win
 
The Jarvis situation could be my biggest disappoint. of course it was uncontrollable, but man...Last years team with him at the helm...could have been something special.
This is one of the biggest what ifs our program could have. Would've added depth when Springs was hurt a couple years ago, could've maybe helped salvage the injury plagued season prior, and would've been a huge asset defensively and with outside shooting last year.
 

bga1

Active member
If he finishes this class with Mashburn and Garcia, then I think he has taken the next step towards turning the corner. He needs a solid year this year- make the NCAAs or threaten. Then he needs to have a big year next year, make a run at the conference title. Then he will have turned the corner.

If he gets Garcia and Mashburn, our lineup next year will be strong and deep and there is no reason we could not compete with anyone in the country.

This is a deep roster that can absorb an injury.... Lots of lineup possibilities there depending on matchups.

Oturu Omersa Freeman
Garcia Curry
Ihnen Williams Mitchell
Kalscheur Willis
Carr Mashburn Greenlee
 

EZ_

New member
I do differ on your opinion of Pitinos top recruit. I think that distinction goes to Coffey and will soon be Oturo or Gabe. Also I’d add Jarvis Johnson to the group of 4 stars with the Dorsey group
Coffey was a special talent, but I would argue that Murph was a better recruit when looking at the impact he had on the program. He had 4 extremely productive years, never missed a single practice, great character, etc. Coffey has more talent, but we only got to see it in flashes his first two years while playing more as a complementary piece. He didn't start consistently showcasing his talent until this past season and now he's on to bigger and better things.

I'm also excited to see how Oturu and Kalscheur develop this year with the reigns in their hands.
 
Coffey was a special talent, but I would argue that Murph was a better recruit when looking at the impact he had on the program. He had 4 extremely productive years, never missed a single practice, great character, etc. Coffey has more talent, but we only got to see it in flashes his first two years while playing more as a complementary piece. He didn't start consistently showcasing his talent until this past season and now he's on to bigger and better things.

I'm also excited to see how Oturu and Kalscheur develop this year with the reigns in their hands.
My reasoning is that we've never had a losing team when Amir is playing and healthy. We've had two of the worst years in recent memory with Murphy. Not a rip on Murph, but to me shows the value that Amir brought and why I rank him higher.
 

Parcival

Member
Coffey was a special talent, but I would argue that Murph was a better recruit when looking at the impact he had on the program. He had 4 extremely productive years, never missed a single practice, great character, etc. Coffey has more talent, but we only got to see it in flashes his first two years while playing more as a complementary piece. He didn't start consistently showcasing his talent until this past season and now he's on to bigger and better things.

I'm also excited to see how Oturu and Kalscheur develop this year with the reigns in their hands.
Murphy was one of my favorite players of all time to come out of this program but c'mon, Coffey was clearly the more impactful player - he was a matchup problem every game he played. Coffey is the best player we've had during the Pitino era, and I'm not sure many players from Tubby's tenure could compete with his talent either.
 

Otis

Active member
Coffey is a great player but you are looking past a lot of warts.

Anytime you lose guards and keep a PF healthy you lose some of the PF's effectiveness unless they can bring the ball up and set themselves up in their spot.

Murphy was not that type so when others went down he would get doubled or tripled on offense and the other teams would let the leftover Gophers shoot.

Coffey struggled against MSU with Murphy out in the NCAA.
 
as far as "turning the corner" - that depends on the record.

if it was only about star ratings, they wouldn't need to play the games.

the career of a recruit does not hinge on the star rating, it hinges on player development and coaching. some coaches can win with 3* players - some coaches could have an entire roster of 4* and 5* players and find some way to screw it up.

in the end, it all comes down to W's and L's.

from my point of view, the Gophers will have "turned the corner" when they go into a season and pundits are talking about them as a legitimate contender for a sweet 16-type finish - not as a team in the '1st 4 out' category.

at some point, just squeaking into the NCAA tournament won't be enough.
 

EZ_

New member
Murphy was one of my favorite players of all time to come out of this program but c'mon, Coffey was clearly the more impactful player - he was a matchup problem every game he played. Coffey is the best player we've had during the Pitino era, and I'm not sure many players from Tubby's tenure could compete with his talent either.
Yeah, I agree Coffey is more talented, and for the purposes of this thread he certainly represents the pinnacle of recruiting success in our recent history. For me though I put a higher value on Murphy for producing at a high level for a longer period of time. The fact that only 1 name sits above his on the all-time B1G rebounding list is pretty impactful.

Jordan Murphy will have his jersey hung up in the rafters, but I don't see the same for Coffey.
 
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Gopher Teeth

Fear the Teeth
Coffey was a special talent, but I would argue that Murph was a better recruit when looking at the impact he had on the program. He had 4 extremely productive years, never missed a single practice, great character, etc. Coffey has more talent, but we only got to see it in flashes his first two years while playing more as a complementary piece. He didn't start consistently showcasing his talent until this past season and now he's on to bigger and better things.

I'm also excited to see how Oturu and Kalscheur develop this year with the reigns in their hands.
One other thing to consider is that Coffey will be helping this program with an NBA career. Pitino needs NBA players to point to to breakthrough with 5 star recruits more consistently. So I would argue that Coffey will have much longer term impact on the program.
 

WriterGoph

Active member
The best ability Jordan Murphy had here was availability!
No. Not even close to true. That's blasphemy to a Gopher great.

Does availability get you to #2 in Big Ten history in rebounding? There's no ability in that? I honestly can't believe I just read that.
 
No. Not even close to true. That's blasphemy to a Gopher great.

Does availability get you to #2 in Big Ten history in rebounding? There's no ability in that? I honestly can't believe I just read that.
His durability was a huge asset though, he would have never been able to climb the all-time rebounding ladder had he missed serious or maybe even moderate time due to injury
 

WriterGoph

Active member
His durability was a huge asset though, he would have never been able to climb the all-time rebounding ladder had he missed serious or maybe even moderate time due to injury
Sure, his durability was an asset, but to say it was his best ability is really underselling Murph. We've had plenty of durable players over the last few decades and none of them came close to being the prolific rebounder and a top scorer that Murph was.
 
Sure, his durability was an asset, but to say it was his best ability is really underselling Murph. We've had plenty of durable players over the last few decades and none of them came close to being the prolific rebounder and a top scorer that Murph was.
We've also had players with his skill who could not stop from getting hurt (Trevor Mbakwe), having both durability and skill is what has made Murphy in to an all-time great with this team
 

Otis

Active member
No. Not even close to true. That's blasphemy to a Gopher great.

Does availability get you to #2 in Big Ten history in rebounding? There's no ability in that? I honestly can't believe I just read that.
I believe he only missed one game. The last one and he still got PT in that one!

You don't get as high on the records list averaging under 20/game unless you play in all the games.

Do you have any idea how many coaches would be in line to sign a guy who you know will man the four spot for four years!
 

builtbadgers

Well-known member
I believe he only missed one game. The last one and he still got PT in that one!

You don't get as high on the records list averaging under 20/game unless you play in all the games.

Do you have any idea how many coaches would be in line to sign a guy who you know will man the four spot for four years!
Nearly every single one. Also, being durable is part of being great.
 

alchemy2u

Active member
I believe he only missed one game. The last one and he still got PT in that one!

You don't get as high on the records list averaging under 20/game unless you play in all the games.

Do you have any idea how many coaches would be in line to sign a guy who you know will man the four spot for four years!
Of course a player has to be durable to get the numbers to add up, but saying that is the primary reason he will be remembered is totally ignoring his talents. He almost averaged a double double over his career (9.8, 13.5). He did average a double double his last two years overall and in conference play! Many durable basketball players can only dream of doing that!


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bleedsmaroonandgold

Active member
Of course a player has to be durable to get the numbers to add up, but saying that is the primary reason he will be remembered is totally ignoring his talents. He almost averaged a double double over his career (9.8, 13.5). He did average a double double his last two years overall and in conference play! Many durable basketball players can only dream of doing that!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
+1

Jordan Murphy put up historical numbers while he was here. To put up those kind of career numbers, you do need to be durable, but there are plenty of guys who are consistently available to play during their career and don't become one of the top rebounders in conference history.
 

Former Goofer

Active member
2020 Mitchell
2019 Ihnen, Williams
2018 Oturu (stud), Kalesheur 3* (diamond in the rough)
2017 Washington (flamed out)
2016 Coffey, Curry (ranked 114)
2015 Dorsey (flamed out), Murphy 3* (best recruit ever for Pitino)

That's a pretty good haul of talent for a team stuck in the bottom half of the B1G for a while. He is set up to land his best class yet if he gets 2 of Mashburn, Walton and Garcia. Recruiting definitely is showing an increase in quality as the years go by.

I'm not even including Carr and Willis, although I think Carr may have been a 4*.

You can complain about the teams records since he has been here, but you cannot say he isn't building up the program in talent despite missing the big fishes from Minnesota so far. Without the bad luck and poor off-court decisions by players, you could easily point out the program is going up!

You go Pitino!

Go Gophers!
4 stars?

Mitchell?
https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2020-Basketball/Commits/

Williams?
https://247sports.com/player/tre-williams-46046489/
 
Both Mitchell and Williams were four stars on Rivals as well. Guessing ESPN brings down their composites, but they don't pay attention past the top 100

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