All Things Steven Crowl Thread (UPDATED: Crowl commits to UW)

What is your definition of talent or athleticism? Just because Omersa can touch probably a foot over the basket does not make him a better talent. I don’t know a ton about Crowl and he may be raw as you say, but a key part of basketball is putting the ball in the basket. Crowl can already shoot 3s and is much taller than Omersa. Omersa struggles to hit the rim on free throws.
Omersa us much better defensively, I think Crowl will struggle on that side of a ball at first, whether or not they can get him to develop on defense will be the difference on having a nice 4-5 year career or transferring after two. Nice high school offensive game, bit so did Josh Martin, things happen much quicker at the next level. If Crowl was from any other state in the union no one would lose sleep over it. The kid Niko got out of Sauk Centre is better

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You guys know that stuff better than I do in this case but I’m sorry, in 2019, give me the fluid 6’10” guy that can shoot and just needs to put on weight over the 6’6” guy that can jump out of the gym but will likely never develop a shot. I think Omersa could be a nice player as soon as next year but his shot and control need a lot of work.

Of course Crowl maybe fits Wisky better but the point remains that I’ll take the guy that will likely be a much more efficient offensive player.

The only comparison to omersa was regarding our fans’ impatience. Your eagerness to swap him for a center who is currently in high school proves the original point that was made.

If Crowl ends up being a difference maker, then so be it. But Omersa looks like a guy built to defend 5 positions in a league full of high ball screens. Enough of this outrageous comparison.


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Committed today and is already an accomplished shooter from the collegiate three point distance...?

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The collegiate line is not much further back even with the changes. From what I’ve heard of Crowl, he’s an inside-outside big man that Wisconsin generally covets. If he didn’t have that potential I doubt he’d be getting high major offers.
 

Uhhh, I’ll take being misunderstood for $100, Alex.

I am not calling Crowl a stud. Guy brought up the comparison so I went with it.

I’m not being impatient with Omersa* other than the fact that it is EXTREMELY unlikely for a guy that shoots 29% and 20% from the FT line ever develop a jump shot. He can be a very key player in other ways and I’m glad to have him but he’s capped

However, Wisconsin has shown that they’ll take guys like Reuvers and Kaminsky and bulk them up. By no means is he a sure-fire stud and I absolutely can see defensive liability issues if he is slow-footed or doesn’t put in the work, but having a good shooting stroke at 6’10” and not being completely immobile is a great start.

Someone like him can develop a defensive game to be put with the assumed shooting and decent post game. That is in the realm of possibility. Omersa could be Jordan Murphy-Lite but it is very unlikely that he ever develops a shot.
 

The collegiate line is not much further back even with the changes. From what I’ve heard of Crowl, he’s an inside-outside big man that Wisconsin generally covets. If he didn’t have that potential I doubt he’d be getting high major offers.

I’m sure wisco will make the most out of him. Every player is different, but Hurt and Illikainen also were supposed to be good shooters.


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I’m sure wisco will make the most out of him. Every player is different, but Hurt and Illikainen also were supposed to be good shooters.


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Definitely could bust in the way of Illikainen. I’m not even sure he’s a fit for what we do but college basketball is all about hitting 3s which Crowl has the potential to do.

I’m not losing sleep over missing out on him, especially given for for what we do. Just saying I’d take a player with his skillset over Omersa’s.
 
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Uhhh, I’ll take being misunderstood for $100, Alex.

I am not calling Crowl a stud. Guy brought up the comparison so I went with it.

I’m not being impatient with Omersa* other than the fact that it is EXTREMELY unlikely for a guy that shoots 29% and 20% from the FT line ever develop a jump shot. He can be a very key player in other ways and I’m glad to have him but he’s capped

However, Wisconsin has shown that they’ll take guys like Reuvers and Kaminsky and bulk them up. By no means is he a sure-fire stud and I absolutely can see defensive liability issues if he is slow-footed or doesn’t put in the work, but having a good shooting stroke at 6’10” and not being completely immobile is a great start.

Someone like him can develop a defensive game to be put with the assumed shooting and decent post game. That is in the realm of possibility. Omersa could be Jordan Murphy-Lite but it is very unlikely that he ever develops a shot.

Fair enough, and agree in principle. Hope I didn’t come off rough. Wisco has a history of decent success with these recruits, but also failures (van fleet, illikainen) that get forgotten because of the efficient workhorse that carries the torch. Pitino’s staff hasn’t shown the ability to develop the inside-out type bigs. That type of player doesn’t seem to be of focus for the staff though.


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I wrote a report of ''pass'' even to look at Crowl. With that said i hope he proves me wrong and does great things. He joined a extremely successful program. Gard is a winner.
 

I think Wisconsin is a good fit for Crowl. I thought Nate Reuvers had the body type that would never put on significant weight, and he did it by his sophomore year. If Crowl can put on weight, he seems like a good fit for that system with the perimeter jumper he's already shown. For the Gophers, I don't think he was a loss and thank Guy Fawkes for his input on the Crowl recruitment. He was hinting at this type of scenario with Reuvers long before his commitment to Wisconsin.

Bigger picture it's interesting that the Gophers and Badgers value such different players. There is no right or wrong there and there is no denying the Badgers have been way more successful on the court yet seemingly every year if you had a competition between the Gophers and Badgers the following would be true: The Gopher players would clean up in Olympic style competitions or combine testing (jumps, sprints, etc) and The Badgers would clean up in skill based competitions (shooting, passing, dribbling). Crowl and Muscadin seem like a perfect example of the difference in player types. One is comfortable at the 3 point line and the other can jump out of the gym.
 



I think Wisconsin is a good fit for Crowl. I thought Nate Reuvers had the body type that would never put on significant weight, and he did it by his sophomore year. If Crowl can put on weight, he seems like a good fit for that system with the perimeter jumper he's already shown. For the Gophers, I don't think he was a loss and thank Guy Fawkes for his input on the Crowl recruitment. He was hinting at this type of scenario with Reuvers long before his commitment to Wisconsin.

Bigger picture it's interesting that the Gophers and Badgers value such different players. There is no right or wrong there and there is no denying the Badgers have been way more successful on the court yet seemingly every year if you had a competition between the Gophers and Badgers the following would be true: The Gopher players would clean up in Olympic style competitions or combine testing (jumps, sprints, etc) and The Badgers would clean up in skill based competitions (shooting, passing, dribbling). Crowl and Muscadin seem like a perfect example of the difference in player types. One is comfortable at the 3 point line and the other can jump out of the gym.

Interestingly enough, Richard’s team is competing in basketball and not a decathlon so the guys with basketball skills continue to win more games.

One thing is that Richard has slowed down the pace a lot recently other than spurts of the game, which has been generally positive. Unfortunately, unless you can recruit UNC’s caliber of athletes or Rick’s caliber of defensive recruit and depth, you shouldn’t press/run all that often because more efficient teams will beat you in the margins.

Someone like Omersa can carve out a role on any team, but maybe we need to reconsider our “type” of player if we’ve given up on getting the elite depth or caliber of recruits to run a fast pace. 3 point shooting is...important. It doesn’t have to be Crowl, but we should maybe consider some of these guys more and not always be late to offer because we’re chasing after the New York dribbling contest winner.
 
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Happy for Crowl. Whisky is his best chance to be a good player as he fits their system.

He also eliminates another Wisconsin scholarship! Could end up being a wasted one. He will struggle to get his shot of in the B1G.

Not really a Gopher type of player in any case. Give me Muscadin over him any day. Muscadin reminds me of Mbawkwe, and if that proves to be true, I'd be ecstatic!
 

Happy for Crowl. Whisky is his best chance to be a good player as he fits their system.

He also eliminates another Wisconsin scholarship! Could end up being a wasted one. He will struggle to get his shot of in the B1G.

Not really a Gopher type of player in any case. Give me Muscadin over him any day. Muscadin reminds me of Mbawkwe, and if that proves to be true, I'd be ecstatic!

Heck yeah!
 

I've seen Crowl play multiple times and each time I walked away feeling meh. He's not super athletic, not a shot blocker, quick jumper or agressive. He's a big hard working guy who at best will be a 4-6 point and 3-5 rebound kid as a senior in college. You need those types of kids in a program. He's not really a huge miss but he would be a nice start to a class than clearly needs a big man. I think Pitino wasn't super high on him so he got the soft sell.
 



I think Wisconsin is a good fit for Crowl. I thought Nate Reuvers had the body type that would never put on significant weight, and he did it by his sophomore year. If Crowl can put on weight, he seems like a good fit for that system with the perimeter jumper he's already shown. For the Gophers, I don't think he was a loss and thank Guy Fawkes for his input on the Crowl recruitment. He was hinting at this type of scenario with Reuvers long before his commitment to Wisconsin.

Bigger picture it's interesting that the Gophers and Badgers value such different players. There is no right or wrong there and there is no denying the Badgers have been way more successful on the court yet seemingly every year if you had a competition between the Gophers and Badgers the following would be true: The Gopher players would clean up in Olympic style competitions or combine testing (jumps, sprints, etc) and The Badgers would clean up in skill based competitions (shooting, passing, dribbling). Crowl and Muscadin seem like a perfect example of the difference in player types. One is comfortable at the 3 point line and the other can jump out of the gym.

I think this, while very general, is fairly accurate. Given the historical results (wins/losses) between the two programs, I think we should place a little more value on shooting, and less on high-jumping.


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Interestingly enough, Richard’s team is competing in basketball and not a decathlon so the guys with basketball skills continue to win more games.

One thing is that Richard has slowed down the pace a lot recently other than spurts of the game, which has been generally positive. Unfortunately, unless you can recruit UNC’s caliber of athletes or Rick’s caliber of defensive recruit and depth, you shouldn’t press/run all that often because more efficient teams will beat you in the margins.

Someone like Omersa can carve out a role on any team, but maybe we need to reconsider our “type” of player if we’ve given up on getting the elite depth or caliber of recruits to run a fast pace. 3 point shooting is...important. It doesn’t have to be Crowl, but we should maybe consider some of these guys more and not always be late to offer because we’re chasing after the New York dribbling contest winner.

So we should have tried harder to get Crowl, who doesn't fit our system, because we can't get Rick's recruits or UNC recruits? Omersa showed all of the athletic ability in the world. Curious as to what makes you think that we would assess two players and not take the one with proven athletic ability, which is essential to move and defend in the B1G, and instead aim for a recruit with a way lower ceiling and athletic ability? The thing is though, Omersa has been in the program for a year and you are already saying he isn't good. We knew it would take a little time, and he showed he can be a very solid defender against Nick Ward in the tourney. Crowl is the same way, it will take a little time and yet you would be taking the same way about Crowl who would be showing major deficiencies after one year too, just like Omersa did with his offensive game.
 

So we should have tried harder to get Crowl, who doesn't fit our system, because we can't get Rick's recruits or UNC recruits? Omersa showed all of the athletic ability in the world. Curious as to what makes you think that we would assess two players and not take the one with proven athletic ability, which is essential to move and defend in the B1G, and instead aim for a recruit with a way lower ceiling and athletic ability? The thing is though, Omersa has been in the program for a year and you are already saying he isn't good. We knew it would take a little time, and he showed he can be a very solid defender against Nick Ward in the tourney. Crowl is the same way, it will take a little time and yet you would be taking the same way about Crowl who would be showing major deficiencies after one year too, just like Omersa did with his offensive game.

Richard’s system went from initially press and run to defense and run a bit to...run only when we can.

Of course, personnel is a big factor but we’re never going to be a team that consistently runs up-and-down successfully. If someone wants to speed up the pace, Coffey obliged and had great games. If not, we’ll continue to lose by missing more shots, turning it over a bit more, and fouling a bit too much on defense...but we will have some exciting fast break alley oops.
 

Omersa is also a year younger in age than his peers. By age he could have been a senior in HS last year.

Everyone forgets this and expects him to be more polished because he has a man's body. Let him work on his game and we will reap the benefits.
 

Crowl has some skill. He can shoot spotting up. He has pretty good footwork on the post and he can use both hands. He plays below the rim but so do other bigs. Crowl could be a poor mans Luka Garza or maybe end up like Jeff Hagen very solid.
 

Richard’s system went from initially press and run to defense and run a bit to...run only when we can.

Of course, personnel is a big factor but we’re never going to be a team that consistently runs up-and-down successfully. If someone wants to speed up the pace, Coffey obliged and had great games. If not, we’ll continue to lose by missing more shots, turning it over a bit more, and fouling a bit too much on defense...but we will have some exciting fast break alley oops.

You are framing it like all of our troubles are due to us running. Have you saw what some of his squads can do with a capable big man and athletic guards? See the team that won him B1G COY. We don't have to commit to a system of running every single game or slowing it down every single game. There are styles that fall in between. I don't get what your complaint is, we have been doing something in between those two styles for the majority of his tenure. Yes offense was rough at times last year, we need another shooter/slasher that can score.
 

You are framing it like all of our troubles are due to us running. Have you saw what some of his squads can do with a capable big man and athletic guards? See the team that won him B1G COY. We don't have to commit to a system of running every single game or slowing it down every single game. There are styles that fall in between. I don't get what your complaint is, we have been doing something in between those two styles for the majority of his tenure. Yes offense was rough at times last year, we need another shooter/slasher that can score.

The problem isn’t due to running as we don’t do it much anymore.

You need elite players to run/press in most major conferences...I’m not sure we’ll ever get that. But every year we go after the same “type” and end up not being a running team anyways. We still will run more than Wisconsin but we play half court basketball against 10 or 11 of the B10 teams anyways since we are forced to...yet we insist on getting guys for a style we don’t even really play.
 

Richard’s system went from initially press and run to defense and run a bit to...run only when we can.

Of course, personnel is a big factor but we’re never going to be a team that consistently runs up-and-down successfully. If someone wants to speed up the pace, Coffey obliged and had great games. If not, we’ll continue to lose by missing more shots, turning it over a bit more, and fouling a bit too much on defense...but we will have some exciting fast break alley oops.

I disagree with your second point. If all the guys are eligible last year I would guarantee we ran far more, just like we would this year if Amir was back. You just need adequate depth and Pitino has not obtained that through his own recruiting misses or guys messing up
 

I disagree with your second point. If all the guys are eligible last year I would guarantee we ran far more, just like we would this year if Amir was back. You just need adequate depth and Pitino has not obtained that through his own recruiting misses or guys messing up

This is the exact point. “If nobody gets hurt and everything is right we have the group to execute the system.” How often is that happening?
 

This is the exact point. “If nobody gets hurt and everything is right we have the group to execute the system.” How often is that happening?

Honestly I’d expect it this year unless Pitino fully decides he’s not in on doing it
 

Honestly I’d expect it this year unless Pitino fully decides he’s not in on doing it

I can see it but now we have a fairly youthful team trying to speed up experienced B10 teams. Could turn out like Illinois last year.
 

The problem isn’t due to running as we don’t do it much anymore.

You need elite players to run/press in most major conferences...I’m not sure we’ll ever get that. But every year we go after the same “type” and end up not being a running team anyways. We still will run more than Wisconsin but we play half court basketball against 10 or 11 of the B10 teams anyways since we are forced to...yet we insist on getting guys for a style we don’t even really play.

I'm not sure what you are saying, lets recruit less athletic kids? Athletic ability can trump skills as skills can athletic ability as well. Need athletes to defend in the B1G. If you just want better recruits I get that but we have been recruiting fairly well the last few years.
 

I can see it but now we have a fairly youthful team trying to speed up experienced B10 teams. Could turn out like Illinois last year.

Do you not understand you modify a system to fit what you have for players, and try to get players that are the best fit that you can get? Who should we be recruiting then? All you are saying is you don't like the prospects that we get. What are we lacking other than more threats from deep? We have taken some tough hits over the years with injuries/off the court, but when Pitino has the team we should have, we do pretty solid.
 

Do you not understand you modify a system to fit what you have for players, and try to get players that are the best fit that you can get? Who should we be recruiting then? All you are saying is you don't like the prospects that we get. What are we lacking other than more threats from deep? We have taken some tough hits over the years with injuries/off the court, but when Pitino has the team we should have, we do pretty solid.

Pitino has done a decent job at modifying the system but the problem is that he has to modify almost every single year.

He realized a few years ago that he can’t run Wisconsin or Beilein’s Michigan out of the gym so he’s forced to play slow for a large portion of the Big 10 slate, especially since the bench is always thin for one reason or another. Yet every year he’s recruiting to be Rick’s Louisville or Roy’s UNC when that simply wont happen here unless Rick starts funneling cash to his son’s recruits.
 

I'm not sure what you are saying, lets recruit less athletic kids? Athletic ability can trump skills as skills can athletic ability as well. Need athletes to defend in the B1G. If you just want better recruits I get that but we have been recruiting fairly well the last few years.


Athleticism can trump skill if you’re Michigan State on a whole different level than your conference with skilled athletes or if you’re Duke with NBA players that haven’t meshed as a team yet.

If not, you’re left with the Omersas or the Washingtons or the McBrayers of, “if he just got a better jumper and stopped turning it over so much, we’d have a stud player” and then the player graduates and he has not yet.
 
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Athleticism can trump skill if you’re Michigan State on a whole different level than your conference with skilled athletes or if you’re Duke with NBA players that haven’t meshed as a team yet.

If not, you’re left with the Omersas or the Washingtons or the McBrayers of, “if he just got a better jumper and stopped turning it over so much, we’d have a stud player” and then the player graduates and he has not yet.

You haven't said one thing about the type of player or what you feel is generally wrong with the type of player you recruit. Who are these skill guys we should be targeting right now? You just want to complain about who we are targeting because some haven't panned out as well, or we haven't won as much as you would like. Anybody can do that. Right now, would you take Crowl? Who are some others that we should be targeting then that are skill guys instead of athletes? You literally have made no argument, just complained about our recruits.
 

Pitino has done a decent job at modifying the system but the problem is that he has to modify almost every single year.

He realized a few years ago that he can’t run Wisconsin or Beilein’s Michigan out of the gym so he’s forced to play slow for a large portion of the Big 10 slate, especially since the bench is always thin for one reason or another. Yet every year he’s recruiting to be Rick’s Louisville or Roy’s UNC when that simply wont happen here unless Rick starts funneling cash to his son’s recruits.

I think Pitino has to and I think he has now come up with a more balanced approach to recruiting. I think early on he made the mistake of believing that he was going to be able to recruit 4 star plus athletes with skills to boot. When it became tough to find the guys he went the athletic route for the most part and he hoped for the best or for improvement on shooting. With his past few classes I think he has found a balance and think that the players he is hard after in this class mostly fit that same mold of being able to run and shoot. He has also stuck with guys that appear to be very high character guys. The trend- in my view- is good.
 




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