MSU Football Sexual Assault Scandal

That's what I was thinking, but I will let dpo clarify if he thinks he needs to.

I'm not lauding the AD. I was just remarking his getting out front marks a departure from our recent experience.

agree or not, it does smack of leadership. Wonder if Mark Coyle is taking notes, or still in his hole since he saw his shadow on 2/2.
 

I was just going to comment on this.

I am sure I'll get torn apart for this, but Coyle would have been criticized for saying sexual assault. There haven't been any actual charges presented and he threw out that term. His statement didn't really say anything other than the common thought process. No additional information regarding anything for the situation other than using the term sexual assault to describe why he is reacting to the investigation. This may be a more severe case or it could be similar to what went on here.

Pump the brakes a bit before applauding Michigan State for their process.

Reading the quote in context, he was asked about Sexual assault allegations, so it kind of does make sense that he said that. And notice, Mr. Kaler and Mr. Coyle, that the AD clearly stated that Sexual Assault is unacceptable and members of MSU Athletics who fail to uphold that will (note, did not call them rapists) be held accountable - again in the context that at present no charges have been filed, but a process has begun and it was already widely reported that the investigation was about Sexual Assault. Note the use of the word will and not tying suspension while being investigated with guilt -- pretty easy to do guys.

We don't know what the outcome will be, but we do know that the administration at MSU has a clue, which is far more than we have even after "instituting a 'culture' change that has not included changing the problems in the administration.
 

Reading the quote in context, he was asked about Sexual assault allegations, so it kind of does make sense that he said that. And notice, Mr. Kaler and Mr. Coyle, that the AD clearly stated that Sexual Assault is unacceptable and members of MSU Athletics who fail to uphold that will (note, did not call them rapists) be held accountable - again in the context that at present no charges have been filed, but a process has begun and it was already widely reported that the investigation was about Sexual Assault. Note the use of the word will and not tying suspension while being investigated with guilt -- pretty easy to do guys.

We don't know what the outcome will be, but we do know that the administration at MSU has a clue, which is far more than we have even after "instituting a 'culture' change that has not included changing the problems in the administration.

Neither Coyle nor Kaler called anyone a rapist.
 


I was trying to find the quotes, but "Mark Coyle Rape" in google isn't finding them. Let me try Kailer.

Try "Kaler refers to accuser as victim"


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Because it didn't.

So, he was saying that he stands behind the suspensions. Then, on an unrelated matter, he stands up for victims of sexual violence. Got it.

“In this particular case, we made all the right decisions,” he continued. “We wound up with a new football coach who will be tremendous. And we’ve stood up for the victims of sexual violence. If I get fired for standing up for victims of sexual violence, then so be it.”

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

So, he was saying that he stands behind the suspensions. Then, on an unrelated matter, he stands up for victims of sexual violence. Got it.

“In this particular case, we made all the right decisions,” he continued. “We wound up with a new football coach who will be tremendous. And we’ve stood up for the victims of sexual violence. If I get fired for standing up for victims of sexual violence, then so be it.”

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Right, the words "victim, "she," "her," and "student" appear nowhere in the quote. Thanks for posting it so that proof is abundantly clear.
 

As has been pointed out before these pompous asses:

- implied repeatedly the players are guilty of rape, which they were never charged for much less convicted of
- despite privacy laws took every opportunity to discuss the players and sexual assault, victims in the same breath
- stated the sexual assault training clearly failed in this situation and the players need different training
- never took the liberty of stating "withhold judgment" pending the formal hearing
- blamed Claeys for not suspending the players while they had access to the police reports
- stated it was Claeys decision to suspend rather than Coyle
- communicate so poorly the team mutinied HMS Bounty- style
- communicate so poorly the dept had to issue a press release to clarify Claeys buyout amount
- publicly degraded the character of the past and former coaches and the team as a whole
 






As has been pointed out before these pompous asses:

- implied repeatedly the players are guilty of rape, which they were never charged for much less convicted of
- despite privacy laws took every opportunity to discuss the players and sexual assault, victims in the same breath
- stated the sexual assault training clearly failed in this situation and the players need different training
- never took the liberty of stating "withhold judgment" pending the formal hearing
- blamed Claeys for not suspending the players while they had access to the police reports
- stated it was Claeys decision to suspend rather than Coyle
- communicate so poorly the team mutinied HMS Bounty- style
- communicate so poorly the dept had to issue a press release to clarify Claeys buyout amount
- publicly degraded the character of the past and former coaches and the team as a whole

Don't forget stating they are giddy with the way it turned out...
 

I think you mean 'implied' and not 'inferred.' The speaker does the implying, and the listener does the inferring. I learned that from Lisa Simpson.

Fair enough. Either way, time for the whole distasteful situation to be done with.
 

Neither Coyle nor Kaler called anyone a rapist.

I disagree. You may equivocate all you want, but when asked about people calling for his head, Kaler said that if he got fired for standing with victims of sexual assault, that he was ok with that.

Perhaps I missed the several other alleged cases of sexual assault on campus that had people calling for Kaler's head. There was one. The details were out there sexual intercourse happened. If those acts were not consensual that meets the definition of rape.
 

I disagree. You may equivocate all you want, but when asked about people calling for his head, Kaler said that if he got fired for standing with victims of sexual assault, that he was ok with that.

Perhaps I missed the several other alleged cases of sexual assault on campus that had people calling for Kaler's head. There was one. The details were out there sexual intercourse happened. If those acts were not consensual that meets the definition of rape.

If you want to infer that line of thinking out of what he said, that is your prerogative, but the fact remains that he did not say "Student-Athlete is a rapist" or "There are multiple rapists on the University of Minnesota football team" or anything of the sort.
 

If you want to infer that line of thinking out of what he said, that is your prerogative, but the fact remains that he did not say "Student-Athlete is a rapist" or "There are multiple rapists on the University of Minnesota football team" or anything of the sort.

He did not use those words, but the inferred meaning was crystal clear, again, unless you can point to the multiple other sexual assaults on campus that he was under fire for, then, perhaps it is less clear.
 

He did not use those words, but the inferred meaning was crystal clear, again, unless you can point to the multiple other sexual assaults on campus that he was under fire for, then, perhaps it is less clear.

It only really matters from a legal standpoint. Nothing he said is actionable.
 

It only really matters from a legal standpoint. Nothing he said is actionable.

That may be true, but I've seen less be included successfully in trials before. All depends on the attorney and the judge.
 

He did not use those words, but the inferred meaning was crystal clear, again, unless you can point to the multiple other sexual assaults on campus that he was under fire for, then, perhaps it is less clear.

There is a nationwide conversation about sexual assaults on college campuses. A primary reason we have this separate EOAA quasi-judicial system on college campuses is that the criminal justice system is perceived to have woefully failed in the investigation and successful prosecution of these cases. The legitimacy of the numbers of assaults on campuses can be difficult to pin down, but whatever the number of actual assaults, the level of successful prosecutions is close to zero and many find that to be unacceptable. That's the audience Kaler is speaking to when he talks about standing with victims of sexual assault.

As a result of the lack of satisfactory resolutions from the criminal courts, we have seen the rise of student conduct code systems that result in "convictions" with little due process in the guise of providing safe environments on college campuses. The issues that plague criminal prosecutions of sexual assaults--lack of concrete evidence, credibility disputes, chemical and alcohol involvement, etc., are seen as barriers to justice and are therefore largely eliminated in the code of conduct investigations--proving affirmative consent makes almost any encounter subject to an adverse finding if any party to the encounter calls consent into question.

So we have a two part system in place where it seems that almost no set of facts can successfully support a criminal conviction, but almost every set of facts can give rise to a colorable claim of a conduct code violation. Neither system seems just.
 

Mods, can we please move all this conversation in with the other thread?
 

Getting this back on topic, 'the MSU investigation', a member of the staff, the director of, academic advancement and development, is suspended with pay pending the investigation. The reason for his suspension other than involvement in the investigation wasn't stated. I'm guessing, failing to report a violation or something similar, but I have nothing to base it on.
 



From ESPN:

Michigan State police submits requests for arrest warrants in sexual assault investigation.

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...-arrest-warrants-sexual-assault-investigation

So it was explained on another forum that in Michigan that request is basically the way the police hand off information to the attorneys to make the call if THEY want to get a warrant.

Word has it the attorneys told them to go back and get more information.... it sounds like they're on the cusp of making arrests.... or not at all.
 

So it was explained on another forum that in Michigan that request is basically the way the police hand off information to the attorneys to make the call if THEY want to get a warrant.

Word has it the attorneys told them to go back and get more information.... it sounds like they're on the cusp of making arrests.... or not at all.

Yeah that is how I read the article also. The headline of the ESPN article is misleading.

Big difference between "arrest warrant issued" and "submit a request for arrest warrant to be issued"

In this case it is the latter.
 





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