Minnesota's Ceiling?

KillmeNow

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Co-workers of mine and other non-Gopher sports fans I've talked to over the years have consistently argued that Minnesota has a ceiling that can never be broken. That ceiling is occasionally winning the B1G West Title, but NEVER the overall B1G Conf Title much less a National Title.

Asking Gopher fans what they think UMn's ceiling is might not be the best way to get an unbiased answer, but Gopher fans have gotten used to not doing well, so maybe Gopher fans would have the most realistic view as to what our ceiling is.

Me personally? I think the Gophers can get to the playoffs and to the Title game on a regular basis with the right coach and enough university support, and Fleck could very well be that right coach, and it seems the U is showing a lot of support, so far.




Reasons given why we can't break this supposed ceiling?

Not enough money?
Bad location?
Low rent facilities?
Won't be able to keep any good coaches?
Haven't been good for so long?



Now I always ask, if those reasons are legit, how did Clemson rise to where they are?



I'd also argue the money may seem not to be there, but there are a ton of UMn grads out there in the world, some who have felt no reason to support their alma mater probably? Crazy what a successful football team can do to change that!!
I'd argue our location is unique, everyone won't want to deal with the cold winters, but enough will be open to it so if we have a great coach and enough support, they'd give us a look.
I'd argue our facilities have gotten major upgrades recently, maybe not as big or fancy as a few programs out there, but better than a lot of other programs. Don't have to have the BEST facilities EVER to get great recruits, but among the best is a must to keep up.
I'd argue the chance to do something historic is a great reason for someone like Fleck to accept 5 mil a year rather than taking more to go elsewhere. 5 Mil in Minnesota might go further than the same amount elsewhere? And winning 10 games at Minnesota may be just as impressive in outsiders/experts opinion as winning 12 games somewhere else?
I'd argue a lot of schools can start winning with the right coach. Like I mentioned, where was Clemson before they got their current coach? Where was Wisconsin in the 70s and 80s? Remember when we were not impressed with Oregon?



So, what do the rest of you think? Are there reasons why Minnesota could never rise up to the level of an OSU/Clemson or an Alabama?
 

Any one season can be special. This season already is, but could also be a heck of a lot more.

The true question is: can we ever get sustained, high-level, Ohio State success in Minneapolis for 5-6 or more seasons??

Not impossible, but very difficult. Would it be more difficult here than other P5, non-helmet schools? Probably yes, for some.


Clemson comes to mind, as a program that has been at an Ohio State/Alabama level now for seems like the last 4-5 years, when they weren't like that 10 years ago. But they do have some advantages over us, as far as geography/access to 4/5* recruits.
 

I think the barriers have been removed.

We have a great coach
We have great facilities
We have a great stadium
Our locale is no worse than WI or Iowa
 

I think the barriers have been removed.

We have a great coach
We have great facilities
We have a great stadium
Our locale is no worse than WI or Iowa

All correct. Would also add that we have great support, from our administration, from our fans (yesterday being great proof), and financially (being in the Big Ten helps a lot there).

Truly, the main question that has to be answered: can Fleck consistently, year-after-year, recruit the kind of talent that Ohio State gets to commit to Columbus every year? Is that possible here??
 

Geographic location will always be a problem, as we are far away from where the majority of the best players are located in the south-east.

We still are a large university in a big conference located in a major metropolitan market. So even with some of our hurdles it certainly isn't impossible to build a powerhouse he again.
 


I think location could prevent us from getting to the level of Ohio State or Alabama. Both are in areas with way more talent in high school football and both are in warmer climates that are more appealing to some recruits. I still think the Gophers could get top 10 and possibly top 5 recruiting classes but I think it will stop them from getting to the top level.

The small stadium would also hurt things but if they expand it to 80k that's not that much smaller than the top teams. Although even if we get to the point where we are consistently selling out I have to wonder if they'd expand or just raise ticket prices.
 

People tend to think the future will be more or less like what has come before. They assume that teams will return to the norm before long. Certainly possible, but it isn't evidence. Before Alvarez, you wouldn't have been able to guess that Wisconsin would do well over the long term. There's no particularly good reason to think that Minnesota has strong disadvantages that will preclude long-term success. Ohio State's level of success is unlikely, but that level of success is unlikely for any program.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 

Geographic location will always be a problem, as we are far away from where the majority of the best players are located in the south-east.

We still are a large university in a big conference located in a major metropolitan market. So even with some of our hurdles it certainly isn't impossible to build a powerhouse he again.

The great lakes (Ohio, Pennsylvania in particular) also has a lot of really good players, but those areas are essentially just as far, 2-3 hr flights away from Mpls.
 

Recruiting. Recruiting. Recruiting. Recruiting.

In order for the Gophers to become a Helmet school - a school that consistently is in contention for conference titles and a playoff berth, they need to get the recruiting classes from the 30's up to the Teens.

That is a big jump to take.

Putting up recruiting classes even in the 15-20 range will mean bringing in 4* players, the occasional 5*, and every other player has to be a high 3*.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't know if that's sustainable on an every-year basis.

My gut says the Gophers' ceiling is more of a team that wins 9-10 games every year, with the occasional 11-win season. Win Division titles maybe 3 years out of 5. Win a Conference title at least once every 5 years. Make the CFP playoffs once or twice in a 10-year period. (assuming they stay with a 4-team playoff.)

Do that for a decade, and then you can talk about expanding the stadium.
 



It appears now that we have the right Prez, the right AD, and the right coach with the backing of the BOR, the ceiling is limitless. Maybe a National Title in our lifetime is not to far off a dream that can be realized.
 

Recruiting. Recruiting. Recruiting. Recruiting.

In order for the Gophers to become a Helmet school - a school that consistently is in contention for conference titles and a playoff berth, they need to get the recruiting classes from the 30's up to the Teens.

That is a big jump to take.

Putting up recruiting classes even in the 15-20 range will mean bringing in 4* players, the occasional 5*, and every other player has to be a high 3*.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't know if that's sustainable on an every-year basis.

My gut says the Gophers' ceiling is more of a team that wins 9-10 games every year, with the occasional 11-win season. Win Division titles maybe 3 years out of 5. Win a Conference title at least once every 5 years. Make the CFP playoffs once or twice in a 10-year period. (assuming they stay with a 4-team playoff.)

Do that for a decade, and then you can talk about expanding the stadium.

This is a reasonable take.

Essentially, taking over that role from Wisconsin.
 

Geography is tough, but it's easier to visit Minneapolis in 3-hours than it is Madison, Iowa City, Lincoln, etc.

If Fleck is teaching a better scheme or better execution, it can make up for some of the talent gap.
How much is unknown.
Nebraska and Penn St both beat us in the recruiting rankings, but we don't know if they are being "under-coached", if their talent was "over-rated" or if we are out-coaching them.
 

Add to that recruiting the right type of players who can fit into the system and play team football and not a collection of egotistical superstars.

The Gophers loaded with mostly three star players just beat a team loaded with four and five star players.

Imagine what will happen if the Gophers can get half the caliber of players that Penn State has?
 




Our ceiling is national titles. Period. There is no reason PJ can’t do it.
 

There is no ceiling and never has been.

My wife's family are heavily into Oregon. When we got married almost 30 years ago now, all Oregon had was excuses. No national titles, no proud history--they'd never even won a conference title outright. They were co-champions of the conference four times. That's it. They had a litany of excuses that I found strikingly familiar as a Minnesota fan: Oregon is lousy recruiting territory, it's cold and wet all winter, no one will come here to the middle of nowhere, everyone wants to go to a "helmet" school, woe-is-effing-us. But then something happened. Some people with vision came in and said: This is unacceptable. We're a great school and we're going to do whatever it takes to build a great football program. The excuses were dumped and the sole focus was HOW. Once you have the vision, you can ask the right question, and then the answers come. It took time, yes, and Chip Kelly really reaped the harvest from the hard work Bellotti and others put in. Still no national title, but if you aim high and miss, the rewards are better.

Fleck hit his head on the G5 ceiling in the MAC and he didn't want to do it again. If he thought there was a ceiling in Minnesota, he'd have never signed on. Coyle and the administration doesn't believe there's a ceiling.

There is no ceiling at Minnesota. NO, NO Big Ten school can make any excuses anymore in my estimation because the money is flowing. The problem isn't finding the resources, it's finding the dream and the people with vision to carry it out. Finding the people WITHOUT excuses that are going to give 110% and break their hearts open to get it done.

I am so grateful for Coyle and Fleck, words can't express. I've always been a true believer that the U was sleeping greatness, and I couldn't understand why nobody else seemed to see that.

The great magician Houdini had a standing bet he could break out of any jail cell. A town took him up on the bet for their new jail and stuck him in the cell. Houdini worked frantically to unlock the cell with the tools he'd secreted, but couldn't get the lock to budge. Eventually exhausting himself, he sat on the floor, leaned on the door, and the door swung open. They hadn't locked the cell--he was working the whole time on the assumption the door was locked.

There is no ceiling at Minnesota other than the phantom ones people build in their minds.
 


Proximity to talent will always be a disadvantage, but we have advantages that other programs don't. And as far as proximity to talent goes, this state has had its share of 5-star players and others that have gone on to be huge stars.
 


This is a reasonable take.

Essentially, taking over that role from Wisconsin.

Right. Furthermore, taking over the high 3* and low 4* recruits that someone like Wisconsin might get over the Gophers in the past. The culture here needed to change in order to do so, and we just might be witnessing that before our eyes. I know recruiting has picked up some recently; still needs to go further to become a true high-end program.

Personally, if we could just get the program to the status of Wisconsin and Iowa - consistent winners, sell out the stadium more often than not, and playing in some very big games often enough - I'll be plenty satisfied.
 

My gut says the Gophers' ceiling is more of a team that wins 9-10 games every year, with the occasional 11-win season. Win Division titles maybe 3 years out of 5. Win a Conference title at least once every 5 years. Make the CFP playoffs once or twice in a 10-year period. (assuming they stay with a 4-team playoff.)

I would take that level of success in a heartbeat.

As long as the administration continues to show a willingness to support the program the sky is the limit. Will always be at a disadvantage with our local talent base but the right coach can overcome that and I would argue we have that guy in Fleck based on early returns. Exciting times in store for Gopher football and it is about damn time.
 

There is no ceiling and never has been.

My wife's family are heavily into Oregon. When we got married almost 30 years ago now, all Oregon had was excuses. No national titles, no proud history--they'd never even won a conference title outright. They were co-champions of the conference four times. That's it. They had a litany of excuses that I found strikingly familiar as a Minnesota fan: Oregon is lousy recruiting territory, it's cold and wet all winter, no one will come here to the middle of nowhere, everyone wants to go to a "helmet" school, woe-is-effing-us. But then something happened. Some people with vision came in and said: This is unacceptable. We're a great school and we're going to do whatever it takes to build a great football program. The excuses were dumped and the sole focus was HOW. Once you have the vision, you can ask the right question, and then the answers come. It took time, yes, and Chip Kelly really reaped the harvest from the hard work Bellotti and others put in. Still no national title, but if you aim high and miss, the rewards are better.

Fleck hit his head on the G5 ceiling in the MAC and he didn't want to do it again. If he thought there was a ceiling in Minnesota, he'd have never signed on. Coyle and the administration doesn't believe there's a ceiling.

There is no ceiling at Minnesota. NO, NO Big Ten school can make any excuses anymore in my estimation because the money is flowing. The problem isn't finding the resources, it's finding the dream and the people with vision to carry it out. Finding the people WITHOUT excuses that are going to give 110% and break their hearts open to get it done.

I am so grateful for Coyle and Fleck, words can't express. I've always been a true believer that the U was sleeping greatness, and I couldn't understand why nobody else seemed to see that.

The great magician Houdini had a standing bet he could break out of any jail cell. A town took him up on the bet for their new jail and stuck him in the cell. Houdini worked frantically to unlock the cell with the tools he'd secreted, but couldn't get the lock to budge. Eventually exhausting himself, he sat on the floor, leaned on the door, and the door swung open. They hadn't locked the cell--he was working the whole time on the assumption the door was locked.

There is no ceiling at Minnesota other than the phantom ones people build in their minds.

Very insightful and thought-provoking. Thanks for posting this.
 

It appears now that we have the right Prez, the right AD, and the right coach with the backing of the BOR, the ceiling is limitless. Maybe a National Title in our lifetime is not to far off a dream that can be realized.

This is exactly how WI. became a consistent winner and there is no reason we can't do the same.
 

With Fleck there is no ceiling. His way of running a program should be followed by all coaches. Proud to support this team.
 


I would say the ceiling is somewhere below Alabama, OSU, and Clemson. Then again those are heights that are out of reach for 99% of programs. The geographic location can be an issue but is Columbus, Ohio really that much more appealing than the Twin Cities? I think if Fleck stays long term and doesn't bolt for a bigger name Minnesota can replicate what Oregon had accomplished or Stanford starting with it's run with Harbaugh. The key is Fleck staying in place, if he leaves it would be a huge setback for the program.

I didn't see an introduce yourself thread so this is my first post. If there is one please direct me there!
 

I think the barriers have been removed.

We have a great coach
We have great facilities
We have a great stadium
Our locale is no worse than WI or Iowa

Agreed but they are not OSU, ALABAMA, LSU, and CLEMSON level
 

I would say the ceiling is somewhere below Alabama, OSU, and Clemson. Then again those are heights that are out of reach for 99% of programs.

Well, considering that Michigan can't seem to get into that class lately with their history and level of support, I'd say that's about right.

However, note that Auburn did win a championship in 2010 and, previous to that, they hadn't won a title since sharing one in 1957 so it's possible for someone to sneak into that group for at least a one shot performance.
 


I think location could prevent us from getting to the level of Ohio State or Alabama. Both are in areas with way more talent in high school football and both are in warmer climates that are more appealing to some recruits. I still think the Gophers could get top 10 and possibly top 5 recruiting classes but I think it will stop them from getting to the top level.

The small stadium would also hurt things but if they expand it to 80k that's not that much smaller than the top teams. Although even if we get to the point where we are consistently selling out I have to wonder if they'd expand or just raise ticket prices.

When they built TCF Bank Stadium, they built it for future expansion. Footings for an upper deck are already in. Build it - They will come!
 




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