Was MN ever a helmet school and if so, when did it end?

Schnauzer

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I was reading an article about the fall of Nebraska football earlier today and it got me thinking. Is Nebraska still a helmet school? A "blueblood"? It doesn't seem like it. They aren't very scary and it doesn't seem like they are on a lull. It seems like they are now in a "new normal" of a middling power 5 team. They certainly seemed like a helmet school to me when they arrived in the B1G. They still have a big sold out stadium. Is that enough?

So, in thinking further, we often speak of MN's glory years and seven national championships. Minnesota was a national power. But nobody suggests Minnesota is a blue blood or a helmet school now.

Minnesota's last national championship was 1960 and the last conference championship was 1967.
Nebraska's last national championship was 1997 and their last conference championship was 1999. It has been 20-22 years.

Were the Gophers still considered blue blood material in 1980? 1987? I was very much around for the 80's and my answer to that question is an emphatic "no!"

So, where is the line between blue blood helmet school and ex-helmet school? And the bigger question(s) Who is now a helmet school, who used to be a helmet school, who is on their way to being a helmet school, etc. ??

I don't think there are right and wrong answers to these questions, as they are subjective. But I'm curious about opinions.

Welcome to bye week.
 

I was born in the latter half of the 1970's and didn't start following the Gophers until the 1983 (yeah, the first year I was old enough to pay attention was the worst year ever). My gut would tell me that they stopped being a "helmet" school in WW2. From 1900-1941 we won/tied for the Big Ten 16 times and won 6 national titles. From 1942-1967 we won 2 conference titles and 1 national championship.

Regarding Nebraska, guess I consider them just a notch below a "helmet" school. They have a great history and a huge fan base but they just don't have the status that they once had. They remind me of Tennessee.
 

I was born in the latter half of the 1970's and didn't start following the Gophers until the 1983 (yeah, the first year I was old enough to pay attention was the worst year ever). My gut would tell me that they stopped being a "helmet" school in WW2. From 1900-1941 we won/tied for the Big Ten 16 times and won 6 national titles. From 1942-1967 we won 2 conference titles and 1 national championship.

Regarding Nebraska, guess I consider them just a notch below a "helmet" school. They have a great history and a huge fan base but they just don't have the status that they once had. They remind me of Tennessee.

Which is funny because I think we're starting to see some other schools fall down the ladder. Florida is good, but not great anymore. Miami is a shell of their former selves. Florida St did win one title, but they are back on the slow track to mediocrity. Texas is struggling to be relevant. USC and UCLA have both fallen way back.

Maybe there's space for us to take over. We'll need to start recruiting at a much higher level, but have another year like this one and we just might.
 

How many helmet schools can you even say there are currently?
 

How many helmet schools can you even say there are currently?

Your question is valid and very interesting.

One difficulty in answering it: we don't even have consensus on the definition. What, exactly, is a "helmet school"?
 



Your question is valid and very interesting.

One difficulty in answering it: we don't even have consensus on the definition. What, exactly, is a "helmet school"?

I mean if you can only say there are 10 at a given point in time the answer to the OP's question certainly is yes. You can then just go back to certain points in time and look at who those 10 could potentially be. That would determine when the gophers start to fall off the map a bit.
 


How many helmet schools can you even say there are currently?

I'd consider any university that has the prestige, funding and recruiting to consistently finish top 10 with many top 5 finishes to be a helmet school.

So, to me that would be Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, and Oklahoma as the clear cut helmet schools with LSU, Georgia, Notre Dame, Oregon, Michigan and Wisconsin as the questionable names over the last decade.

Michigan and Wisconsin are both REALLY questionable as well.
 



Current Official Helmet School List:

Notre Dame
Michigan
Ohio St
PSU
Clemson
Alabama
LSU

:the end:
 


Well is there a consensus list of helmet schools? I think you're suppose to immediately think winning team, nationally recognized coaches and players, famous alumni, or maybe even subject of a Hollywood movie! My list:

OSU
Bama
Clemson
Texas
Michigan
ND
USC
PSU - though kinda hard to tell!
Oklahoma
Georgia
Miami
Florida
FSU
LSU

Those in the wings:
UCLA
Oregon (if they'd settle for a single look!)
Washington
Boise State
Auburn
Nebraska - gulp, yes
Sconnie
VaTech

Others I've missed?
 




Wisconsin has zero national championships, quit including them in with helmet schools.
 

I've never liked the term "helmet school", but here's my take...... The gophers, through 1969, were still considered to be one of the nation's elite
programs, but were on their way to decline by the end of that season. BY 1970-71, something was wrong and outsiders could see it. The lack of
commitment from the school was starting to show.

Remember, the 1960's were a time of great balance in the Big Ten. Just about everyone had their shot at the top at one point or another, but the
Gophers won at least a share of the title in 1960 and 1967, should have won it in 1962, and were ranked as late at 1968. They won the Natty in 1960
and went to two Rose Bowls. After 1969, the Gophers were, historically, considered alongside Michigan and Ohio State as the three top traditional powers
in the Big Ten, and conference titles, all-time wins, etc could back that up. They were in the top ten in those things.

Bear Bryant looked over the Big Ten landscape in 1970 and made that statement "There's something wrong in the Land of the Giants" when surveying
Minnesota. From the league's earliest days they had been a factor, and now were falling behind Ohio State and Michigan due to neglect. Had the school
decided to support football as those two had, the 1970s and beyond would have look entirely different. AS it was, OSU and Michigan were the only two
schools in the league that continued to make that commitment and the league became known as the Big Ten and Little Eight. Granted, Minnesota was
usually at the top of the Little Eight for the most part, but people noticed the drop-off.

Through the 70's, 80's, and 90's every Gopher coach had to work dragging a tire behind them. In the mid-70s, multiple Big Ten teams could now go to
bowl games to help bring the Little Eight up through incentives. It worked, of course and the league became very balanced again, but while schools like
Iowa and Illinois were going to Rose Bowls, Minnesota was hiring presidents who suggested replacing football with soccer. In the 80's, cable TV made college
football more visible than ever, and Minnesota's chance to shine again was lost. By the 90's, even 6 wins could get you to a bowl game in the Big Ten, which
would have made Minnesota more visible, but the Wacker years failed to make even one. I remember one publication asking "Do they even still play football there?"

So, thru the 70s, 80s, and 90s, the Gophers had their chances to become visible and relevant again but decided to run the program on the cheap compared to
their conference rivals, who were benefiting from the multiple bowl games, cable TV games, and the lowering of bowl standards. When they hired Mason they decided
to do a little bit more, but it was still below average in the Big Ten. Finally, they got smart and found how much opportunity cost they were incurring by playing in
the Dome and got the stadium built. The Brewster years sent them out onto that track with a big flat tire (I know, how many opportunities can a school blow? Its
almost like they were TRYING to screw things up) and didn't get it straight until the Kill/Claeys era, when the Gophers became good again. You know the rest from there.
The U has had only itself to blame for its fall from the heights, but it appears to again be making the investment.
 

Current Official Helmet School List:

Notre Dame
Michigan
Ohio St
PSU
Clemson
Alabama
LSU

:the end:

I like the list except that I would put Alabama, Clemson, LSU and Ohio State in a different stratosphere with the trifecta of history, fan support/revenue and recruiting.

Penn State and Michigan are probably the next rung. Michigan with the history and support while Penn State probably has a little more room to maneuver academically.

Notre Dame has tons of history and financial support of course, but that school is almost Ivy League status now - not sure if they can get the recruits to consistently stay on top.
 

I was reading an article about the fall of Nebraska football earlier today and it got me thinking. Is Nebraska still a helmet school? A "blueblood"? It doesn't seem like it. They aren't very scary and it doesn't seem like they are on a lull. It seems like they are now in a "new normal" of a middling power 5 team. They certainly seemed like a helmet school to me when they arrived in the B1G. They still have a big sold out stadium. Is that enough?

So, in thinking further, we often speak of MN's glory years and seven national championships. Minnesota was a national power. But nobody suggests Minnesota is a blue blood or a helmet school now.

Minnesota's last national championship was 1960 and the last conference championship was 1967.
Nebraska's last national championship was 1997 and their last conference championship was 1999. It has been 20-22 years.

Were the Gophers still considered blue blood material in 1980? 1987? I was very much around for the 80's and my answer to that question is an emphatic "no!"

So, where is the line between blue blood helmet school and ex-helmet school? And the bigger question(s) Who is now a helmet school, who used to be a helmet school, who is on their way to being a helmet school, etc. ??

I don't think there are right and wrong answers to these questions, as they are subjective. But I'm curious about opinions.

Welcome to bye week.

Well I think the drop off has a lot to do with it. After the 1967 conference title, the Gophers never finished ranked through the 70s. Additionally, there were just five winning seasons and a few of those were 6-5. In comparison, since its conference title in 1999, Nebraska has a national title game appearance, seven division titles, seven bowl wins with several New Years Day/larger bowl appearances, and eight ranked finishes. Of course it was a different era in the 70s but had Minnesota had a few eight or seven win seasons in a row and maybe broke through with a ranked finish the narrative would be different.

I think that's the case with some other "helmet schools" too. Even though they're not in the national title picture, they're still having plenty of success.
  • Tennessee. Since their last national and conference title in 1988, the Vols have won three division titles, six bowl wins, nine ranked finishes, and 10 seasons with at least eight wins.
  • Florida. Since Meyer left in 2010, they've had three division titles, four bowl wins, four ranked finishes, four seasons with at least nine wins, and several major/New Years bowls.
  • Florida State. Probably not in that bad of a situation. They're in a dip but there's a great chance they'll rebuild pretty fast.
  • Texas. Since their last national title game appearance, they've had four bowl wins, a division title, two ranked finishes, and five winning seasons.
  • Michigan. Since Carr left, they've had two bowl wins, a shared division title, eight winning seasons, four 10 or more win seasons, five ranked finishes and several major bowl berths.
  • USC. Since its last national title game appearance, they've had seven bowl wins, eight ranked finishes, two division titles, a conference titles and several of those bowls were major.

The Minnesota program didn't just decline, it really fell in comparison to other "helmet" schools.
 

I believe Minnesota's precipitous fall from the top of the college football world came long before the term "helmet school" was coined.
 

I believe Minnesota's precipitous fall from the top of the college football world came long before the term "helmet school" was coined.

This is most likely true.

Sports Talk radio started around the early 90's.
 

Well I think the drop off has a lot to do with it. After the 1967 conference title, the Gophers never finished ranked through the 70s. Additionally, there were just five winning seasons and a few of those were 6-5. In comparison, since its conference title in 1999, Nebraska has a national title game appearance, seven division titles, seven bowl wins with several New Years Day/larger bowl appearances, and eight ranked finishes. Of course it was a different era in the 70s but had Minnesota had a few eight or seven win seasons in a row and maybe broke through with a ranked finish the narrative would be different.

I think that's the case with some other "helmet schools" too. Even though they're not in the national title picture, they're still having plenty of success.
  • Tennessee. Since their last national and conference title in 1988, the Vols have won three division titles, six bowl wins, nine ranked finishes, and 10 seasons with at least eight wins.
  • Florida. Since Meyer left in 2010, they've had three division titles, four bowl wins, four ranked finishes, four seasons with at least nine wins, and several major/New Years bowls.
  • Florida State. Probably not in that bad of a situation. They're in a dip but there's a great chance they'll rebuild pretty fast.
  • Texas. Since their last national title game appearance, they've had four bowl wins, a division title, two ranked finishes, and five winning seasons.
  • Michigan. Since Carr left, they've had two bowl wins, a shared division title, eight winning seasons, four 10 or more win seasons, five ranked finishes and several major bowl berths.
  • USC. Since its last national title game appearance, they've had seven bowl wins, eight ranked finishes, two division titles, a conference titles and several of those bowls were major.

The Minnesota program didn't just decline, it really fell in comparison to other "helmet" schools.

Nice list. Interesting that I personally don't think of USC as a helmet school any more because it's been 15 years since they've challenged at the top. Even more so of Texas where they had a one-off year with Vince Young in the 2000s but their last championship prior to that was 1969. I now think of Tennessee as a school with a gigantic freaking stadium that is irrelevant nationally. Texas and Tennessee have only finished the year ranked twice in the last decade...consider that.
 

We need a system like Bill James developed for baseball to track dynasties. Assign a certain point value for national championships, playoff berths, conference championships, division titles and end of year rankings. Once you get above a certain threshold instead of a "dynasty" you are a "helmet school".
 

Interesting that just about everyone here probably considers Clemson a "helmet" school now including me. But they were only a middling to good team prior to Dabo Swinney arriving 10 years ago. It took him 7 seasons to get to the title game. 8 seasons to win it.
 

We need a system like Bill James developed for baseball to track dynasties. Assign a certain point value for national championships, playoff berths, conference championships, division titles and end of year rankings. Once you get above a certain threshold instead of a "dynasty" you are a "helmet school".

I actually DID that once when I was a kid....with no social life.....lol Minny came in at about #12
 

To me, this "helmet schools" concept mostly relates to recruiting. These are the teams that even if they stink still out-recruit the teams from the next tier down who are doing well. For instance, Wisconsin isn't a helmet school to me because they still get beat by schools performing much worse on the recruiting trail. Tennessee for instance, still is, even though they have been middling-to-bad for most of the past 2 decades. Penn State survived a huge scandal mostly unscathed because they are a "helmet school" when it comes to recruiting. Same scandal would have nuked Wisconsin down into Rutgers land for awhile.
 

To me, this "helmet schools" concept mostly relates to recruiting. These are the teams that even if they stink still out-recruit the teams from the next tier down who are doing well. For instance, Wisconsin isn't a helmet school to me because they still get beat by schools performing much worse on the recruiting trail. Tennessee for instance, still is, even though they have been middling-to-bad for most of the past 2 decades. Penn State survived a huge scandal mostly unscathed because they are a "helmet school" when it comes to recruiting. Same scandal would have nuked Wisconsin down into Rutgers land for awhile.

We've been through this, but national HS recruiting rankings underrate players in the Upper Midwest. Proof is in the result. Wisconsin has more players in the NFL than Tennessee. Penn State just passed Wisconsin this year in NFL players but had fewer last year. Iowa has the same as Tennessee.

https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2019-09-03/colleges-most-represented-2019-nfl-rosters
 

The Gophers were a national power in football from 1900, when Doc Williams arrived, to 1968, when Murray Warmath had his last really good season. Our comeback started in '97 when Glen Mason was hired and began winning again, developing about seven All-American players after none from 1971-on (plus many bowl games). Kill was solid many years, too.We were out of it mostly in the three decades of 70s, 80s, 90s.
 

Interesting that just about everyone here probably considers Clemson a "helmet" school now including me. But they were only a middling to good team prior to Dabo Swinney arriving 10 years ago. It took him 7 seasons to get to the title game. 8 seasons to win it.

Yeah, I always thought Clemson represented a beacon of hope for the Gophers when they won the 1981 natty after 20 years of mediocrity (plus a few good ones in the run-up). They were more like Wisconsin or Iowa than a helmet school through the 80s, then very Mason-Kill until Dabo. Heck, if they were a helmet school, Dabo might have been out after his 6-7 second season.

Almost 30 years later, and especially with the similarities between Swinney and Fleck, Clemson is still the model for us Gopher dreamers.
 

MN does not seem like a helmet school due to the seemingly constant helmet and uniform changes that happen from year to year and coach to coach. From the outside, I’m alway feeling like, just leave it alone, it’s a great classic look. Am I the only one that would like the look to stay more consistent? Chrome Helmets, white helmets, yellow helmets, big M, little M, Goldie, umbers on helmets, oars, anthracite, black, etc, etc. Special uniforms are fine, but have some consistence of logo, design and color.
 

Well I think the drop off has a lot to do with it. After the 1967 conference title, the Gophers never finished ranked through the 70s. Additionally, there were just five winning seasons and a few of those were 6-5. In comparison, since its conference title in 1999, Nebraska has a national title game appearance, seven division titles, seven bowl wins with several New Years Day/larger bowl appearances, and eight ranked finishes. Of course it was a different era in the 70s but had Minnesota had a few eight or seven win seasons in a row and maybe broke through with a ranked finish the narrative would be different.

I think that's the case with some other "helmet schools" too. Even though they're not in the national title picture, they're still having plenty of success.
  • Tennessee. Since their last national and conference title in 1988, the Vols have won three division titles, six bowl wins, nine ranked finishes, and 10 seasons with at least eight wins.
  • Florida. Since Meyer left in 2010, they've had three division titles, four bowl wins, four ranked finishes, four seasons with at least nine wins, and several major/New Years bowls.
  • Florida State. Probably not in that bad of a situation. They're in a dip but there's a great chance they'll rebuild pretty fast.
  • Texas. Since their last national title game appearance, they've had four bowl wins, a division title, two ranked finishes, and five winning seasons.
  • Michigan. Since Carr left, they've had two bowl wins, a shared division title, eight winning seasons, four 10 or more win seasons, five ranked finishes and several major bowl berths.
  • USC. Since its last national title game appearance, they've had seven bowl wins, eight ranked finishes, two division titles, a conference titles and several of those bowls were major.

The Minnesota program didn't just decline, it really fell in comparison to other "helmet" schools.
The SEC did not recruit black players until the late 60s. That was a huge advantage to the B1G schools.


Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk
 

I always thought "Helmet School" was a term invented in the internet/recruiting era.
 




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