Urban on the Illinois upset over Wisconsin

Donate To GopherHole

Interesting stuff. Re: the defensive holding (4 on Renner thus far) it seems one or more of the officials is zeroing in on us for some reason. Perhaps they had some money on WI at Camp Randall last year or are WI homers. Only WI can hold every dadgummit play!

The other stuff is fascinating as well. Northwestern and Illinois definitely exposed some chinks in the armor. We can’t stop them but we can hope to contain them. And, my feeling is Durr and St Juste are good enough to hang Mano a Mano with the WI receivers. The book on WI appears to be sell out to stop the run vs Wisconsin and hope the secondary can hold up, and on offense exploit their secondary (which we can). I’m feeling better and better about our chances as the year goes on.
 

I don't know what we did last year, but we contained their offense pretty well.

I'm not an X's and O's guy.
 

I love how Urban’s 59-0 demolition of Wisconsin has been dragged back up 5 years later and placed as the front page feature on ESPN.com today
 



fmlizard said:
I love how Urban’s 59-0 demolition of Wisconsin has been dragged back up 5 years later and placed as the front page feature on ESPN.com today
Click to expand...

I just read that article and I feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Interesting stuff. Re: the defensive holding (4 on Renner thus far) it seems one or more of the officials is zeroing in on us for some reason. Perhaps they had some money on WI at Camp Randall last year or are WI homers. Only WI can hold every dadgummit play!

The other stuff is fascinating as well. Northwestern and Illinois definitely exposed some chinks in the armor. We can’t stop them but we can hope to contain them. And, my feeling is Durr and St Juste are good enough to hang Mano a Mano with the WI receivers. The book on WI appears to be sell out to stop the run vs Wisconsin and hope the secondary can hold up, and on offense exploit their secondary (which we can). I’m feeling better and better about our chances as the year goes on.
Click to expand...

Saw that clip yesterday. Urban's comment about officials "never" calling defensive holding actually p'ssed me off given the calls against Renner et al in the Gophs first few games. Those calls came at crucial moments and were game changing in nature if I recall correctly.
 


Panthadad2 said:
Saw that clip yesterday. Urban's comment about officials "never" calling defensive holding actually p'ssed me off given the calls against Renner et al in the Gophs first few games. Those calls came at crucial moments and were game changing in nature if I recall correctly.
Click to expand...

It just started this year as a point of emphasis.
 



A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
It just started this year as a point of emphasis.
Click to expand...

Vs the gophers. Have any of out opponents been nailed on that? The holds have IMO not been of the egregious Wisconsin style tug and tackle to the the ground at the point of attack variety.
 







fmlizard said:
I love how Urban’s 59-0 demolition of Wisconsin has been dragged back up 5 years later and placed as the front page feature on ESPN.com today
Click to expand...

Very pleasant memory of watching that game in Vegas in the Aria sportsbook. Still had a captive audience, even when the Buckeyes were up by 52. Great job by Urban to get more than 55.5 points.

No better way to win an Over/Under bet involving the team east of the St Croix River.
 
Last edited:

Here is the actual rule on holding, offensive and defensive. The offensive holding rule regarding hands, impeding defensive players is routinely ignored in interest of “moar scoring” and QB health. My reading of the defensive holding rule doesn’t seem to indicate anything Renner is doing that violates the rule. Pushing, pulling at the point of attack to get to the ball carrier seems explicitly allowed. Help me out.






Holding and Use of Hands or Arms: Offense
ARTICLE 3. a. Use of Hands. A teammate of a ball carrier or a passer legally may block with his shoulders, his hands, the outer surface of his arms or any other part of his body under the following provisions.
1. The hand(s) shall be:
(a) In advance of the elbow.
(b) Inside the frame of the opponent’s body (Exception: When the
opponent turns his back to the blocker) (A.R. 9-3-3-VI and
VII).
(c) At or below the shoulder(s) of the blocker and the opponent
(Exception: When the opponent squats, ducks or submarines).
(d) Apart and never in a locked position.
2. The hand(s) shall be open with the palm(s) facing the frame of the opponent or closed or cupped with the palms not facing the opponent (A.R. 9-3-3-I-IV and VI-VIII).
b. Holding. The hand(s) and arm(s) shall not be used to grasp, pull, hook, clamp or encircle in any way that illegally impedes or illegally obstructs an opponent.
PENALTY—10 yards Penalties for Team A fouls behind the neutral zone are enforced from the previous spot. Safety if the foul occurs behind Team A’s goal line [S42].
c. Kicking Team. A player on the kicking team may:
1. During a scrimmage kick play, use his hand(s) and/or arm(s) to
ward off an opponent attempting to block him when he is beyond
the neutral zone.
2. During a free kick play, use his hand(s) and/or arm(s) to ward off
an opponent who is attempting to block him.
3. During a scrimmage kick play or a free kick play, when he is eligible
to touch the ball, legally use his hand(s) and/or arm(s) to push an
opponent in an attempt to reach a loose ball.
d. Passing Team. An eligible player of the passing team legally may use his
hand(s) and/or arm(s) to ward off or push an opponent in an attempt to reach a loose ball after a legal forward pass has been touched by any player or official (Rules 7-3-5, 7-3-8, 7-3-9 and 7-3-11).

Holding and Use of Hands or Arms: Defense
ARTICLE 4. a. Defensive players may use hands and arms to push, pull, ward off or lift offensive players:
1. When attempting to reach the runner.
2. Who are obviously attempting to block them.
FR-98 RuLE 9 / ConDuCt oF PLayERs anD othERs suBjECt to thE RuLEs
b. A defensive player legally may use his hands or arms to ward off or block an opponent in an attempt to reach a loose ball (Rule 9-1-5, Exceptions 3 and 4 and Rule 9-3-6, Exceptions 3 and 5):
1. During a backward pass, fumble or kick that he is eligible to touch. 2. During any forward pass that crossed the neutral zone and has been
touched by any player or official.
c. When making no attempt to get at the ball or the runner, defensive
players must comply with Article 3, paragraphs a and b above.
d. Defensive players may not use hands and arms to tackle, hold or
otherwise illegally obstruct an opponent other than a runner.
e. Defensive players may ward off or legally block an eligible pass receiver until that player occupies the same yard line as the defender or until the opponent could not possibly block him. Continuous contact is illegal
(A.R. 9-3-5-I).
PENALTY [c-e]—10 or 15 yards [S38, S42, S43 or S45].
Use of Hands or Arms by Defense: Passing Downs
ARTICLE 5. During a legal forward pass play in which the pass crosses the neutral zone, if before the pass is touched there is a contact foul by Team B beyond the neutral zone against an eligible receiver (other than pass interference), the penalty includes an automatic first down.
PENALTY—10 or 15 yards and automatic first down if the first down is not in conflict with other rules [S38].[/B]
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Here is the actual rule on holding, offensive and defensive. The offensive holding rule regarding hands, impeding defensive players is routinely ignored in interest of “moar scoring” and QB health. My reading of the defensive holding rule doesn’t seem to indicate anything Renner is doing that violates the rule. Pushing, pulling at the point of attack to get to the ball carrier seems explicitly allowed. Help me out.






Holding and Use of Hands or Arms: Offense
ARTICLE 3. a. Use of Hands. A teammate of a ball carrier or a passer legally may block with his shoulders, his hands, the outer surface of his arms or any other part of his body under the following provisions.
1. The hand(s) shall be:
(a) In advance of the elbow.
(b) Inside the frame of the opponent’s body (Exception: When the
opponent turns his back to the blocker) (A.R. 9-3-3-VI and
VII).
(c) At or below the shoulder(s) of the blocker and the opponent
(Exception: When the opponent squats, ducks or submarines).
(d) Apart and never in a locked position.
2. The hand(s) shall be open with the palm(s) facing the frame of the opponent or closed or cupped with the palms not facing the opponent (A.R. 9-3-3-I-IV and VI-VIII).
b. Holding. The hand(s) and arm(s) shall not be used to grasp, pull, hook, clamp or encircle in any way that illegally impedes or illegally obstructs an opponent.
PENALTY—10 yards Penalties for Team A fouls behind the neutral zone are enforced from the previous spot. Safety if the foul occurs behind Team A’s goal line [S42].
c. Kicking Team. A player on the kicking team may:
1. During a scrimmage kick play, use his hand(s) and/or arm(s) to
ward off an opponent attempting to block him when he is beyond
the neutral zone.
2. During a free kick play, use his hand(s) and/or arm(s) to ward off
an opponent who is attempting to block him.
3. During a scrimmage kick play or a free kick play, when he is eligible
to touch the ball, legally use his hand(s) and/or arm(s) to push an
opponent in an attempt to reach a loose ball.
d. Passing Team. An eligible player of the passing team legally may use his
hand(s) and/or arm(s) to ward off or push an opponent in an attempt to reach a loose ball after a legal forward pass has been touched by any player or official (Rules 7-3-5, 7-3-8, 7-3-9 and 7-3-11).

Holding and Use of Hands or Arms: Defense
ARTICLE 4. a. Defensive players may use hands and arms to push, pull, ward off or lift offensive players:
1. When attempting to reach the runner.
2. Who are obviously attempting to block them.
FR-98 RuLE 9 / ConDuCt oF PLayERs anD othERs suBjECt to thE RuLEs
b. A defensive player legally may use his hands or arms to ward off or block an opponent in an attempt to reach a loose ball (Rule 9-1-5, Exceptions 3 and 4 and Rule 9-3-6, Exceptions 3 and 5):
1. During a backward pass, fumble or kick that he is eligible to touch. 2. During any forward pass that crossed the neutral zone and has been
touched by any player or official.
c. When making no attempt to get at the ball or the runner, defensive
players must comply with Article 3, paragraphs a and b above.
d. Defensive players may not use hands and arms to tackle, hold or
otherwise illegally obstruct an opponent other than a runner.
e. Defensive players may ward off or legally block an eligible pass receiver until that player occupies the same yard line as the defender or until the opponent could not possibly block him. Continuous contact is illegal
(A.R. 9-3-5-I).
PENALTY [c-e]—10 or 15 yards [S38, S42, S43 or S45].
Use of Hands or Arms by Defense: Passing Downs
ARTICLE 5. During a legal forward pass play in which the pass crosses the neutral zone, if before the pass is touched there is a contact foul by Team B beyond the neutral zone against an eligible receiver (other than pass interference), the penalty includes an automatic first down.
PENALTY—10 or 15 yards and automatic first down if the first down is not in conflict with other rules [S38].[/B]
Click to expand...

Thanks for this:

c. When making no attempt to get at the ball or the runner, defensive
players must comply with Article 3, paragraphs a and b above.

1. The hand(s) shall be:
(a) In advance of the elbow.
(b) Inside the frame of the opponent’s body (Exception: When the
opponent turns his back to the blocker)

So if the DL isn't going after the ball or runner, any holding needs to be done inside the O-Lineman's body frame. No grabbing the back of the OL's jersey on their way to block the LB.
 

Like the example in the Urban video by OP seems like most of the calls I’ve seen are grabbing the chest while simultaneously moving into/towards the gap the ball carrier is entering. Seems legal to me but I’m open to other opinions. I’m genuinely confused why this would be a foul. The onus is on the offensive lineman to use their hands to get off the block and move up to the second level, no?
 

I would like to observe that Wisc's failure in Wisc distantly looked like our early struggles in OOC.

At times we would run run run to try to establish the run and JUST couldn't get it going in the face of what were sellout run defenses.

We would then resort to throwing our way to a win late in the game.

Wisc never changed their plan and for them the last plays of the game were not as fortunate as they were for us.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Like the example in the Urban video by OP seems like most of the calls I’ve seen are grabbing the chest while simultaneously moving into/towards the gap the ball carrier is entering. Seems legal to me but I’m open to other opinions. I’m genuinely confused why this would be a foul. The onus is on the offensive lineman to use their hands to get off the block and move up to the second level, no?
Click to expand...

I think it is similar to offensive holding in the sens that the grab while a dude also seems like he is trying to disengage and is slowed by the grab is what draws attention.
 

I always thought the space eater tackles routinely held two guys by design. How else do they impede two large and strong linemen from getting off the block?

I guess like with offensive holding this is going to degenerate into that 4 foot strike zone type judgment call that is occasionally called out of the blue... gah.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I would like to observe that Wisc's failure in Wisc distantly looked like our early struggles in OOC.

At times we would run run run to try to establish the run and JUST couldn't get it going in the face of what were sellout run defenses.

We would then resort to throwing our way to a win late in the game.

Wisc never changed their plan and for them the last plays of the game were not as fortunate as they were for us.
Click to expand...

Which speaks to either hubris by the coaches, (we can win our way, Illinois sucks) or just plain being out coached. Probably a little of both. This is the second extended breakdown by Urban Myer I've seen and I really hope he does not get a coaching job because it is some of the best next level (but accessible) analysis I've seen.
 

LakerFan said:
Which speaks to either hubris by the coaches, (we can win our way, Illinois sucks) or just plain being out coached. Probably a little of both. This is the second extended breakdown by Urban Myer I've seen and I really hope he does not get a coaching job because it is some of the best next level (but accessible) analysis I've seen.
Click to expand...

For my money, Urban is the 2nd best college coach in the country (Saban)
 

LakerFan said:
Which speaks to either hubris by the coaches, (we can win our way, Illinois sucks) or just plain being out coached. Probably a little of both. This is the second extended breakdown by Urban Myer I've seen and I really hope he does not get a coaching job because it is some of the best next level (but accessible) analysis I've seen.
Click to expand...

Could be a lot of things including hubris of course:

Hubris - This is what we do let's win it by doing it that way.

Jerry Kill - **** we look bad let's just get out of here with an ugly win vs Kent St.

Fear - Man if I abandon the run and we lose everyone will say i'm stupids for being Wisconsin and not running.

Anger - God dman it offensive line and RB, you will run until you look good.

Something else - We're going to need to run sometime this season and if we can't vs SDSU we're not going to learn vs other B1G teams... better keep trying...


In fairness generally abandoning what you do well should require some second thoughts.
 

Ope3 said:
Very pleasant memory of watching that game in Vegas in the Aria sportsbook. Still had a captive audience, even when the Buckeyes were up by 52. Great job by Urban to get more than 55.5 points.

No better way to win an Over/Under bet involving the team west of the St Croix River.
Click to expand...

I think you meant "east"
 

Ope3 said:
Very pleasant memory of watching that game in Vegas in the Aria sportsbook. Still had a captive audience, even when the Buckeyes were up by 52. Great job by Urban to get more than 55.5 points.

No better way to win an Over/Under bet involving the team west of the St Croix River.
Click to expand...

Lmfao! Hitting the over with no help from the opponent is one of the most complete humiliations I can fathom.
 


DarrenTheGreek said:
I think you meant "east"
Click to expand...

Yes east, luckily I am better with over/under than east/west. For some reason east-west has been a directional dyslexic-like challenge back to my college days. More than once while going to campus heading to Stadium Village (East Bank), I have wound up on Cedar Ave, 5 Corners. D'oh.

No issues with north-south. Go figure. Thank heavens Siri came along.
 


fmlizard said:
I love how Urban’s 59-0 demolition of Wisconsin has been dragged back up 5 years later and placed as the front page feature on ESPN.com today
Click to expand...

Perhaps if Daniel House has time if he hasn't done the analysis of the Wisconsin game last season, it would be nice to have the game analyzed by someone with keen sense of the game.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom