Not trying to troll, can someone provide a list of Fleck recruits that are performing

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As everyone knows, I'm a big Fleck fan, but this team wouldn't be where it's at with the high quality seniors still here.
There was a lot of attrition, (coaching changes will do that) but the guys who still remain are key contributors and will be missed when they are gone.
 

salzie said:
It's not mutually exclusive to be happy with holdovers and happy with new direction. I'm sorry you're miffed you feel prior staff isn't getting their due
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Not mutually exclusive at all. I am happy with the holdovers and the new direction. Many are. The post I responded to doesn’t share that inclusion of both tho. Pretty disingenuous to pretend you think it does. If I wrote the opposite in the same form would you defend that as well?

... The Kill/Claeys recruits are the base of the team and the Fleck recruits are the icing on top! Once gone and the team doesn’t do as well I don’t know how the Flecksters will spin that....


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Spoofin said:
Not mutually exclusive at all. I am happy with the holdovers and the new direction. Many are. The post I responded to doesn’t share that inclusion of both tho. Pretty disingenuous to pretend you think it does. If I wrote the opposite in the same form would you defend that as well?

... The Kill/Claeys recruits are the base of the team and the Fleck recruits are the icing on top! Once gone and the team doesn’t do as well I don’t know how the Flecksters will spin that....


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Seniors should be playing right now. I thank JK and TC for recruiting these kids and then they stayed around. If the team tanks next year with a bunch of PJ recruits filling the roles vacated by the seniors that will be concerning. I could see a one year minor dip in 2020 with a split recruiting class and then 2021 needs to get back where we are this year and move forward from there.. I think the JK/TC recruits are giving PJ a great opportunity to RS some guys.
 

Spoofin said:
Not mutually exclusive at all. I am happy with the holdovers and the new direction. Many are. The post I responded to doesn’t share that inclusion of both tho. Pretty disingenuous to pretend you think it does. If I wrote the opposite in the same form would you defend that as well?

... The Kill/Claeys recruits are the base of the team and the Fleck recruits are the icing on top! Once gone and the team doesn’t do as well I don’t know how the Flecksters will spin that....


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No either/or. The coaching change was made at the right time and we have seniors contributing when they should. You gotta thank Jerry Kill for that. They got some good players. Tanner Morgan is all I gotta say. He is not here if they don't make the change. I respect what the previous staff did, but it was time to move on. We would not have a QB. We can talk developing players but this staff has had a few years so I don't know if you can say that the previous staff could not have had the same success developing who they had. I am interested in the defense moving forward. I am confident that we will be fine.
 

Mason went 5 - 3 in the big ten in 1999. It was a great moment after the debacle known as the 90s. Most of the leadership on that team came from Wacher recruits. Mason made them better. It has happened again.
 


Spoofin said:
Not mutually exclusive at all. I am happy with the holdovers and the new direction. Many are. The post I responded to doesn’t share that inclusion of both tho. Pretty disingenuous to pretend you think it does. If I wrote the opposite in the same form would you defend that as well?

... The Kill/Claeys recruits are the base of the team and the Fleck recruits are the icing on top! Once gone and the team doesn’t do as well I don’t know how the Flecksters will spin that....


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I think you're either

A: Unnecessarily upset over the way he phrased it
B. Stirring the pot
 

btowngopher said:
Not a specific link, but the narrative seems to be that Brew left the cupboard bare and savior Jerry restored the program.
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I believe the there were two Brew recruits that played for Kill that were drafted in 2014. Vereen and Rashede

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I liked what Kill was building. I feel like he was building a consistent 7-5 to 8-4 type team with occasional special seasons in the future that would have been 9-3 or better. Basically, Mason-like but without the colossal gut wrenching come from ahead losses. So, it is not unreasonable to see really good players from the Kill/Claeys era on the current team.

I think a good coach at MN can expect a lot of 7-5 to 8-4 quality teams. I think a great coach can do better than that here, consistently. I think a mediocre coach will struggle to reach bowl games (6-6) here consistently. You can look at the past 50 years and see how many mediocre or worse coaches the U has had as well as how many good coaches that have been here.
 

Schnauzer said:
I liked what Kill was building. I feel like he was building a consistent 7-5 to 8-4 type team with occasional special seasons in the future that would have been 9-3 or better. Basically, Mason-like but without the colossal gut wrenching come from ahead losses. So, it is not unreasonable to see really good players from the Kill/Claeys era on the current team.

I think a good coach at MN can expect a lot of 7-5 to 8-4 quality teams. I think a great coach can do better than that here, consistently. I think a mediocre coach will struggle to reach bowl games (6-6) here consistently. You can look at the past 50 years and see how many mediocre or worse coaches the U has had as well as how many good coaches that have been here.
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Pretty defeatist to assume things can never get better here. I don't expect national championships because they happened in the past, but I don't expect to be mediocre because that happened in the past. The right leadership can make all the difference. Look at Wisconsin, look at Oregon, Alabama wasn't Alabama 20 years ago. If Nebraska/Kansas St can fall other teams can rise.
 





The biggest recruiting was getting the best players to stay and buy in. Smith, Winfield, and Brooks did so through injury where it could have been easy to pack up and leave.
 

*sigh* and here we go with yet another addition of Mason vs. Brewster vs. Kill vs. Claeys vs. Fleck..... :)
 



MaxyJR1 said:
The biggest recruiting was getting the best players to stay and buy in. Smith, Winfield, and Brooks did so through injury where it could have been easy to pack up and leave.
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On a similar note, I would credit Fleck and Staff for developing Sam Renner. He is definitely performing now.
 

The OP asked: "A list of standout Fleck recruits would be great."

IMO, Bateman, Morgan, Andries, Abrahim and maybe Paulsen. The others have shown promise and will only get better with more experience.

The real question is which Fleck players will be able to match the performance of the best of the last of Kill & Co players? CC, Tyler, Martin, Smith and maybe Barber. IMO, no one.

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DoubleB said:
Actually the list is shorter of the guys who are playing that were not Flecks. I hear this line of questioning a lot and truth is yes there are seniors playing well for the team however more non seniors are the base of the team the seniors are the icing on top! once gone and the team still does well I dont knwo what anti-Fleck (non Gopher fans) will complain about
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Yellow shoes and beaver tails.
 


Bayfieldgopher said:
The OP asked: "A list of standout Fleck recruits would be great."

IMO, Bateman, Morgan, Andries, Abrahim and maybe Paulsen. The others have shown promise and will only get better with more experience.

The real question is which Fleck players will be able to match the performance of the best of the last of Kill & Co players? CC, Tyler, Martin, Smith and maybe Barber. IMO, no one.

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CC will be tough, but Bateman for Tyler, Ibrahim for Smith, I’m confident Flecks linebackers will match Barber and Martin.
 

Spoofin said:
That’s fine. I don’t think there is much debate that PJ is a better recruiter. Even I can see that just by watching the kids play.
I only commented in this thread in response to yet another post trying to diminish the impact previous coaches have had on this year’s success - and then the inevitable follow up by someone else who apparently couldn’t see that.


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Yeah lets not give the person who recruited them all of the credit. Johnson would not have developed nearly as well under Claeys regime, lets not kid ourselves. Probably wouldn't have had a competent pass game either.

AW, KM, TB were all great gets, we were getting CC and BA regardless of who the coach was. Previous staff definitely was able to find some diamonds in the rough.
 


I think this gets back to the hiring of Fleck. the AD who hired Fleck made a point of saying that one of the reasons for the coaching change was to improve recruiting.

Now, I will stipulate that Fleck is bringing in good classes, with a few standout players.

but, when you talk about "improving recruiting," I think some people - maybe a lot of people - read that as bringing in star-caliber players. And/or players who make an immediate impact.

that means 4* players who walk into the starting lineup from Day 1 and make the team better.

Again, Fleck has brought in good players. Bateman has certainly had big moments. But, I think the reason some may be skeptical is that - fair or not - they think Fleck is supposed to bring in those immediate impact players - the FR RB who walks onto campus and is starting from Day 1, etc.

in essence, Fleck is following a similar path to the previous coaches - bringing in good players who still need development, and 'coaching them up.' I think the dream - realistic or not - is that Fleck is such a hot-shot recruiter that he could bring in players who don't need to be 'coached up.'
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I think this gets back to the hiring of Fleck. the AD who hired Fleck made a point of saying that one of the reasons for the coaching change was to improve recruiting.

Now, I will stipulate that Fleck is bringing in good classes, with a few standout players.

but, when you talk about "improving recruiting," I think some people - maybe a lot of people - read that as bringing in star-caliber players. And/or players who make an immediate impact.

that means 4* players who walk into the starting lineup from Day 1 and make the team better.

Again, Fleck has brought in good players. Bateman has certainly had big moments. But, I think the reason some may be skeptical is that - fair or not - they think Fleck is supposed to bring in those immediate impact players - the FR RB who walks onto campus and is starting from Day 1, etc.

in essence, Fleck is following a similar path to the previous coaches - bringing in good players who still need development, and 'coaching them up.' I think the dream - realistic or not - is that Fleck is such a hot-shot recruiter that he could bring in players who don't need to be 'coached up.'
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The problem with some fans is they don't realize how poor our recruiting was. They don't realize that landing classes that are consistently in the 30s or even 40s is a significant improvement.
 

btowngopher said:
The problem with some fans is they don't realize how poor our recruiting was. They don't realize that landing classes that are consistently in the 30s or even 40s is a significant improvement.
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Correct. People are expecting top 20 over night. Fleck and staff seem to be a good evaluators of talent. I saw a tweet the other day that said if Fleck got the 10+ kids that have been on campus for 2021 (A number of them 4*'s) it would currently be the #1 class in the country. Just keep winning and more kids will be interested. We're already on the radar of most recruits.
 

Plenty of talent on lists above and Fleck must have done something similar at W. Michigan--basically recruiting 3 star prospects with high potential. Alabama, Clemson and a couple other schools get most all 5 star kids and it seems that's going to go on forever.
 
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short ornery norwegian said:
I think this gets back to the hiring of Fleck. the AD who hired Fleck made a point of saying that one of the reasons for the coaching change was to improve recruiting.

Now, I will stipulate that Fleck is bringing in good classes, with a few standout players.

but, when you talk about "improving recruiting," I think some people - maybe a lot of people - read that as bringing in star-caliber players. And/or players who make an immediate impact.

that means 4* players who walk into the starting lineup from Day 1 and make the team better.

Again, Fleck has brought in good players. Bateman has certainly had big moments. But, I think the reason some may be skeptical is that - fair or not - they think Fleck is supposed to bring in those immediate impact players - the FR RB who walks onto campus and is starting from Day 1, etc.

in essence, Fleck is following a similar path to the previous coaches - bringing in good players who still need development, and 'coaching them up.' I think the dream - realistic or not - is that Fleck is such a hot-shot recruiter that he could bring in players who don't need to be 'coached up.'
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The reality is that is extremely rare. Not saying it doesn't happen but it just doesn't happen often. The production we saw from Bateman as a freshman is really good.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I think this gets back to the hiring of Fleck. the AD who hired Fleck made a point of saying that one of the reasons for the coaching change was to improve recruiting.

Now, I will stipulate that Fleck is bringing in good classes, with a few standout players.

but, when you talk about "improving recruiting," I think some people - maybe a lot of people - read that as bringing in star-caliber players. And/or players who make an immediate impact.

that means 4* players who walk into the starting lineup from Day 1 and make the team better.

Again, Fleck has brought in good players. Bateman has certainly had big moments. But, I think the reason some may be skeptical is that - fair or not - they think Fleck is supposed to bring in those immediate impact players - the FR RB who walks onto campus and is starting from Day 1, etc.

in essence, Fleck is following a similar path to the previous coaches - bringing in good players who still need development, and 'coaching them up.' I think the dream - realistic or not - is that Fleck is such a hot-shot recruiter that he could bring in players who don't need to be 'coached up.'
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The individual quality of the player is one thing, but the quantity of players also matters.

If you have 22 seniors starting, does that mean your 2015 class was outstanding, or does it mean you haven't recruited anyone good enough to unseed those seniors?
I would guess ideally you would want about a third of your starters as seniors, a third as juniors, and a third as 1st and 2nd year players.

You don't end up as a starting senior if you aren't good. You've had 3-4 years to get unseeded by someone younger, or to become disinterested in the program.


In the end, you can twist the conversation numerous ways, but I don't think our lack of seniors at this point has been due to an overabundance of young players pushing seniors out of contributing roles. It's because we didn't have many seniors remaining coming into this year due to prior attrition.
 

Regarding Fleck bringing in impact players.

If a near Heisman level QB doesn't make that mark, I don't know what you might be expecting.


Do you want high ranking players
or
Do you want players who perform well
 

Face The Facts said:
Regarding Fleck bringing in impact players.

If a near Heisman level QB doesn't make that mark, I don't know what you might be expecting.


Do you want high ranking players
or
Do you want players who perform well
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Yes

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Bateman is a freak- He's the best player we've seen on offense in ten years. (Yes, he is better than Johnson- Bateman way ahead of where Johnson was at same point in career)
After skimming 4 pages of this thread, how is this not brought up more often?
 

btowngopher said:
The problem with some fans is they don't realize how poor our recruiting was. They don't realize that landing classes that are consistently in the 30s or even 40s is a significant improvement.
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Count me as one of those people that must not realize how poor our recruiting was. Then again, I tend to look at results more than rankings. That’s probably the error in my ways.


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