Question for Fleck Critics

PJ is the best thing to happen to Gopher football in 50 years!
 

PJ is the best thing to happen to Gopher football in 50 years!

His players attend class, represent themselves in ways I can be proud of, is able to recruit with anyone, has shown ability to help players improve through their career (on and off the field), handles our tricky media market with class, sells the Twin Cities, volunteers and teaches volunteering to our students...
 


This is a laughable debate to have while the squad has an 8 game win streak going. I’m not talking about the oars on the helmet, because I hate that stuff as much as anyone. 99 yards, 100 yards, who gives a F? Minnesota sports fans are miserable bastards.


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This is a laughable debate to have while the squad has an 8 game win streak going. I’m not talking about the oars on the helmet, because I hate that stuff as much as anyone. 99 yards, 100 yards, who gives a F? Minnesota sports fans are miserable bastards.


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Maybe stated a little stronger than I would have, but I couldn’t agree more. We are in the middle of one of the best stretches in years, and people still bitch and moan about really petty things.


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This is like trying to enjoy Christmas dinner but your nutty politicized relatives are trying to push buttons and start something. How many threads is this in Sept/Oct alone on the same basic theme?
 

His players attend class, represent themselves in ways I can be proud of, is able to recruit with anyone, has shown ability to help players improve through their career (on and off the field), handles our tricky media market with class, sells the Twin Cities, volunteers and teaches volunteering to our students...

He does these things good, that means he does everything good.
 

Who keeps track of every Fleck exaggeration, and can produce a link — in two minutes flat — to "prove his dishonesty"?

A. Every? Not even close. I even said “meh” to the 99 yard thing. I am sure I miss a lot of them as I only catch the ones that are repeated over and over. Lots of “mistakes”.

B. Google.com. You are giving me too much credit (and a little disappointed in what the link showed).

C. If you have an issue with the word “dishonest” - take it up with Webster.

D. For everyone bitching about the topic of this thread - realize that it was started by maybe the biggest PJ supporter on here, the title is pretty clear in what you will find, and that you aren’t required to read it at any time.


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A. Every? Not even close. I even said “meh” to the 99 yard thing. I am sure I miss a lot of them as I only catch the ones that are repeated over and over. Lots of “mistakes”.

B. Google.com. You are giving me too much credit (and a little disappointed in what the link showed).

C. If you have an issue with the word “dishonest” - take it up with Webster.

D. For everyone bitching about the topic of this thread - realize that it was started by maybe the biggest PJ supporter on here, the title is pretty clear in what you will find, and that you aren’t required to read it at any time.


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I take offense to that unless you are talking by actual weight.
 



A. Every? Not even close. I even said “meh” to the 99 yard thing. I am sure I miss a lot of them as I only catch the ones that are repeated over and over. Lots of “mistakes”.

B. Google.com. You are giving me too much credit (and a little disappointed in what the link showed).

C. If you have an issue with the word “dishonest” - take it up with Webster.

D. For everyone bitching about the topic of this thread - realize that it was started by maybe the biggest PJ supporter on here, the title is pretty clear in what you will find, and that you aren’t required to read it at any time.

A) Thanks for letting some of them go without comment. Good to see you loosening your tie and unbuttoning the top button.

B) Keep those links coming; your role as moral watchdog on, uhhhh, Gopher Hole, is invaluable. Preach, brother!

C) I have no issue with the word dishonest per se. However, I personally don't equate minor hyperbole with dishonesty.

D) Was someone actually 'bitching' here about the topic of the thread, or is this a red herring?
 


Maybe stated a little stronger than I would have, but I couldn’t agree more. We are in the middle of one of the best stretches in years, and people still bitch and moan about really petty things.


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This long thread really isn't about PJ. This thread is about a number of posters who like to visit the forum and argue as a form of entertainment...and that's fine. That is all.
 

A) Thanks for letting some of them go without comment. Good to see you loosening your tie and unbuttoning the top button.

B) Keep those links coming; your role as moral watchdog on, uhhhh, Gopher Hole, is invaluable. Preach, brother!

C) I have no issue with the word dishonest per se. However, I personally don't equate minor hyperbole with dishonesty.

D) Was someone actually 'bitching' here about the topic of the thread, or is this a red herring?

Oxymoron

"minor hyperbole" I guess we know why you don't take offense to it
 



A) Thanks for letting some of them go without comment. Good to see you loosening your tie and unbuttoning the top button.

B) Keep those links coming; your role as moral watchdog on, uhhhh, Gopher Hole, is invaluable. Preach, brother!

C) I have no issue with the word dishonest per se. However, I personally don't equate minor hyperbole with dishonesty.

D) Was someone actually 'bitching' here about the topic of the thread, or is this a red herring?

Once again, for at least the second time in this thread, no one is taking any issue with hyperbole. Saying things that you know aren't true is called lying, not hyperbole.
 

Maybe stated a little stronger than I would have, but I couldn’t agree more. We are in the middle of one of the best stretches in years, and people still bitch and moan about really petty things.


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Someone started a thread asking what people dont like about PJ, I dont know how the meaning on this thread is the fault of anyone other than the person who started a thread to invite moaning. If someone started a thread celebrating being 6-0, and Spoofin replied to the original post and said "I dislike that PJ lies about taking a pay cut to come here, " I would understand the frustration.

It's like on the basketball board, where someone will say something like "Pitino is doing much better than Tubby," then someone who disagrees with that assessment will reply and say "based on their records, I think Tubby was better than Pitino", and then somebody responds to the second poster asking why they keep attacking Pitino and comparing him to Tubby.
 

Once again, for at least the second time in this thread, no one is taking any issue with hyperbole. Saying things that you know aren't true is called lying, not hyperbole.

+1 Referring to "we won four of our last five games last year" as hyperbole is absurd. If I start referring to Fleck's record as 4-8 in his first year, is that just hyperbole? I'm just exaggerating to make a point, right? It's only one game difference
 

+1 Referring to "we won four of our last five games last year" as hyperbole is absurd. If I start referring to Fleck's record as 4-8 in his first year, is that just hyperbole? I'm just exaggerating to make a point, right? It's only one game difference

Yes, I see it now. Thanks for removing the scales from my eyes.

Please carry on with the righteous crusade. It's invaluable... and all too rare to see in our modern, 'anything goes' world.
 

Yes, I see it now. Thanks for removing the scales from my eyes.

Please carry on with the righteous crusade. It's invaluable... and all too rare to see in our modern, 'anything goes' world.

I’m on record as backing up the Brinks truck if we can get to nine+ wins this year. That’s extreme hate. I’m sure every other guy (and gal) that might have an issue with ONE aspect of PJF (the fibbing, or the paddles on the helmets, or the acronyms, or the running, or even “the energy and positivity”) would probably say the same thing if the program becomes successful. Isn’t that enough? Why must everyone treat the coach as a messiah figure?
 

The winning 4 out of 5 doesn't seem as big of a deal when you've now won 9 out of 10. (Like actually 9 out of last 10)

5 of the last 9 by over 22 points over Power 5 teams.
 

Day after we play WI there better be about a 3 year extension for about $4.5-5 mill a year if we get to 9 wins.
 

Why must everyone treat the coach as a messiah figure?

That's really a question for the Cult of Kill members.

They're still waiting on the bronze statue and the naming of Jerry Kill Field at TCF Bank Stadium.
 
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I’m on record as backing up the Brinks truck if we can get to nine+ wins this year. That’s extreme hate. I’m sure every other guy (and gal) that might have an issue with ONE aspect of PJF (the fibbing, or the paddles on the helmets, or the acronyms, or the running, or even “the energy and positivity”) would probably say the same thing if the program becomes successful. Isn’t that enough? Why must everyone treat the coach as a messiah figure?

Regarding the bold:

1) Did anyone mention "extreme hate"? Or were you simply employing hyperbole... ?

2) Who is "everyone"? Or... is the word "everyone" an exaggeration?

When you climb up on a really, really high horse please be careful not to fall off!
 

So if I don’t like PJ for how he conducts himself, I should forget all that because he wins games? I shouldn’t be surprised you think that makes sense.



You aren’t the brightest bulb are you? Please show me even once when I have not complimented the coaches and players for their academic success and community involvement. If you feel so strong on your position why make things up?


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Most fans are all about results. Most fans will look the other way on some pretty crappy conduct in the name of wins. Even if in every case you cite, PJ knows the truth and is flat out lying, it's pretty minor in the grand scheme. But fine, you can't get over it that's fine.

I don't read all your posts, I'm not making anything up. You are missing my point, maybe with the success AND the positive community involvement should outweigh your allegations of being a LIAR LIAR.

But even if not. EVEN if not. Fine, yes I like the overwhelming positives, but I just don't like the things he says. I think he's lying about a bunch of stuff.

OFFENDED??? Your feelings are hurt because he said they won 4 of 5 or that the roster is a higher % of freshmen than is accurate? It hurts your feelings?

Wow. Just wow. Bravo. But keep deflecting it back on me for not being as smart as you are.
 

P
Regarding the bold:

1) Did anyone mention "extreme hate"? Or were you simply employing hyperbole... ?

2) Who is "everyone"? Or... is the word "everyone" an exaggeration?

When you climb up on a really, really high horse please be careful not to fall off!

That is hyperbole, not a factual fib. And really, the way you’re carrying on about how others view the coach makes it seem we’re accusing coach of a crime. It’s pretty bizarre.

Regarding everyone - yes you seem to want every one of us to act like you. ??

I don’t routinely fib to make myself look better but I’ll keep the last in mind. Keep preaching brother.
 

His players attend class, represent themselves in ways I can be proud of, is able to recruit with anyone, has shown ability to help players improve through their career (on and off the field), handles our tricky media market with class, sells the Twin Cities, volunteers and teaches volunteering to our students...

I don't understand all the hate for him. People are just waiting for this guy to mess up so they can jump all over him. The team looks great this year and for the near future. Some people will never be happy.
 

I don't understand all the hate for him. People are just waiting for this guy to mess up so they can jump all over him. The team looks great this year and for the near future. Some people will never be happy.

I can't help but guess that it's the KFAN syndrome.

Regarding the bold part, it reminds me of an old SNL skit: Romano Tours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbwlC2B-BIg
 

I don't understand all the hate for him. People are just waiting for this guy to mess up so they can jump all over him. The team looks great this year and for the near future. Some people will never be happy.

I can't speak for others, but I don't hate him nor wait for him to mess up. This team is great and I am excited for what is to come. Yet I don't think its unreasonable to critique what Fleck says if its not accurate. This thread seems to consist of people feeling the need to white knight for Fleck. I think that the vast majority of Fleck critics support the team and are happy about where we are. I don't think one has to be unhappy if they aren't 100% happy with Fleck.
 

That's really a question for the Cult of Kill members.

They're still waiting on the bronze statue and the naming of Jerry Kill Field at TCF Bank Stadium.

See this is my problem with the Flecksters, like scool. Why do we have to go through an exercise where we have to stand up and condemn the coaches before Fleck? Simply so we can show that we love him more than the next Fleckster? It is silly.
 

See this is my problem with the Flecksters, like scool. Why do we have to go through an exercise where we have to stand up and condemn the coaches before Fleck? Simply so we can show that we love him more than the next Fleckster? It is silly.

I didn't condemn the previous coach.

Pointed out the absurdity of "everyone" making Fleck into a messiah which isn't even close to accurate.

The silliness of it all is that you people think this is actually about defending Fleck.
 

P

That is hyperbole, not a factual fib. And really, the way you’re carrying on about how others view the coach makes it seem we’re accusing coach of a crime. It’s pretty bizarre.

Regarding everyone - yes you seem to want every one of us to act like you. ??

I don’t routinely fib to make myself look better but I’ll keep the last in mind. Keep preaching brother.

My problem with Fleck is that his "lying" DOES NOT WORK. He's not manipulating ANYONE. There's no upside to it. It doesn't really bother me, but I'd rather he didn't do it. It's unnecessary. He doesn't need to sell the public on anything, he needs to sell recruits and the team on his culture.

The results can not be manipulated by PJ. Everyone has their own metric, and can judge from their own eyes. It's a waste of time.

Sure, it was valuable to temper expectations early, to let everyone know we aren't going for quick fixes. But even that, was viewed as an excuse by those who don't like PJ. He's much better off focusing on the positives, but not trying to reframe anything, or spin anything. It doesn't work and is obviously having the opposite effect to what he intends.
 




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