4* recruits in each of last six classes! Has Pitino turned the corner?

They are both composite 3 stars, but they are also both 4 stars in 247’s rankings. Gabe Kalscheur was also a 4 star in the 247 rankings.

I usually just go by 247 composite since I feel that's the most fair.
I really didn't mean to come across as a dick and I apologize for that.

I'mm not bashing the players but it isn't correct to say some of these guys are 4 star players. Their rankings could change in the future and I'm sure someone will bump this if it happens but right now they aren't.
 

I usually just go by 247 composite since I feel that's the most fair.
I really didn't mean to come across as a dick and I apologize for that.

I'mm not bashing the players but it isn't correct to say some of these guys are 4 star players. Their rankings could change in the future and I'm sure someone will bump this if it happens but right now they aren't.

I disagree. It’s actually incorrect to say they are not 4 stars, if they are being given 4 stars by at least one service. Unless you are giving them a ‘Former Goofer 3-star evaluation’, there’s really not much to argue.




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I usually just go by 247 composite since I feel that's the most fair.
I really didn't mean to come across as a dick and I apologize for that.

I'mm not bashing the players but it isn't correct to say some of these guys are 4 star players. Their rankings could change in the future and I'm sure someone will bump this if it happens but right now they aren't.

They are labeled by the best ranking they are given by the services. All of them are ranked as 4 stars by a service. Plus all of the articles about Mitchell’s commitment say he is a four star. It is not just us reaching...


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I usually just go by 247 composite since I feel that's the most fair.
I really didn't mean to come across as a dick and I apologize for that.

I'mm not bashing the players but it isn't correct to say some of these guys are 4 star players. Their rankings could change in the future and I'm sure someone will bump this if it happens but right now they aren't.
I'm not a fan of the composite only because it factors in ESPN. After the top 50ish players ESPN doesn't put a whole lot into their recruiting so it is kind of hard to take them seriously.
 


No because I’ve seen our roster this year.

Tubby's first two years were better than any of Pitino's so far but after that his recruiting fell off a cliff, overall Pitino's has been much better, I don't think the program has been in this good of a shape since the Clem years.
 

If you look at the 247 composite team rankings, here is how we have fared in the B1G each year since 2015: https://247sports.com/Season/2015-Basketball/CompositeTeamRankings/?Conference=Big-Ten

2019- 4th
2018- 8th
2017 - 11th
2016- 5th
2015- 6th

So our average recruiting ranking in the B1G has been 7th since 2015, right in the middle. I would imagine our average finish is below this, possibly 9th or 10th would be my guess. So recruiting has been average, and B1G records have been below average. And we've turned a corner. Do I have this right?
 

If you look at the 247 composite team rankings, here is how we have fared in the B1G each year since 2015: https://247sports.com/Season/2015-Basketball/CompositeTeamRankings/?Conference=Big-Ten

2019- 4th
2018- 8th
2017 - 11th
2016- 5th
2015- 6th

So our average recruiting ranking in the B1G has been 7th since 2015, right in the middle. I would imagine our average finish is below this, possibly 9th or 10th would be my guess. So recruiting has been average, and B1G records have been below average. And we've turned a corner. Do I have this right?

I added some more details.
Tubby
2008 Nat#26, B1G#3 8-10 conf record
2009 Nat#10, B1G#1 Royce, Rodney 9-9
2010 Nat#—, B1G#— 9-9
2011 Nat#54, B1G#8 6-12
2012 Nat#75, B1G#11 6-12

Pitino
2013 Nat#91, B1G#11 8-10
2014 Nat#64, B1G#9 8-10
2015 Nat#34, B1G#6 6-12
2016 Nat#30, B1G#5 2-16
2017 Nat#71, B1G#11 IW 11-7
2018 Nat#45, B1G#8 4-14
2019 Nat#37, B1G#4 9-11

Not quite the argument that you were trying to make.


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I added some more details.
Tubby
2008 Nat#26, B1G#3 8-10 conf record
2009 Nat#10, B1G#1 Royce, Rodney 9-9
2010 Nat#—, B1G#— 9-9
2011 Nat#54, B1G#8 6-12
2012 Nat#75, B1G#11 6-12

Pitino
2013 Nat#91, B1G#11 8-10
2014 Nat#64, B1G#9 8-10
2015 Nat#34, B1G#6 6-12
2016 Nat#30, B1G#5 2-16
2017 Nat#71, B1G#11 IW 11-7
2018 Nat#45, B1G#8 4-14
2019 Nat#37, B1G#4 9-11

Not quite the argument that you were trying to make.


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Color me confused by the point you're trying to make?

My argument was pretty clear. Under Pitino, our recruiting has been average in the B1G and our record has been below average.
 



Color me confused by the point you're trying to make?

My argument was pretty clear. Under Pitino, our recruiting has been average in the B1G and our record has been below average.

I do like the trend over that past three years -- pretty solid improvements. Granted, when you start low it's easier to show an improvement. Guess we'll find out soon about this year's class, right now it's looking very solid.
 

I added some more details.
Tubby
2008 Nat#26, B1G#3 8-10 conf record
2009 Nat#10, B1G#1 Royce, Rodney 9-9
2010 Nat#—, B1G#— 9-9
2011 Nat#54, B1G#8 6-12
2012 Nat#75, B1G#11 6-12

Pitino
2013 Nat#91, B1G#11 8-10
2014 Nat#64, B1G#9 8-10
2015 Nat#34, B1G#6 6-12
2016 Nat#30, B1G#5 2-16
2017 Nat#71, B1G#11 IW 11-7
2018 Nat#45, B1G#8 4-14
2019 Nat#37, B1G#4 9-11

Not quite the argument that you were trying to make.


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Wasn't 2013 a Tubby year?
 





What I will say is this: making the tournament is one thing, but winning a tournament game is a major next level up from that. The buzz last spring when the Gophs were playing in the Round of 32 was a cool thing. Not just local but national. That's what gets you on kids' radar. No question it made a difference in recruiting. If there's a corner to be turned, it'll be making a Sweet 16. That could be a launching pad.
 

He was let go in March of 2013.. it was the NIT championship season



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But the 8-10 record you are referring to as 2013 is the 2012/13 year that Tubby coached, right? Am I missing something?
 

But the 8-10 record you are referring to as 2013 is the 2012/13 year that Tubby coached, right? Am I missing something?

Yea, I think you guys are right. The 2013 that I listed was Tubby.

I was putting that together on my iPad and pulling it off of a couple of sites. So here is the data from one site with the coach listed. It can get tricky to keep track of the right year if you try to save time by using 2013 instead 2012/13 headings https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/minnesota/
gopher record.jpg
 
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I added some more details.
Tubby
2008 Nat#26, B1G#3 8-10 conf record
2009 Nat#10, B1G#1 Royce, Rodney 9-9
2010 Nat#—, B1G#— 9-9
2011 Nat#54, B1G#8 6-12
2012 Nat#75, B1G#11 6-12
2013 Nat#91, B1G#11 8-10

Pitino
2014 Nat#64, B1G#9 8-10
2015 Nat#34, B1G#6 6-12
2016 Nat#30, B1G#5 2-16
2017 Nat#71, B1G#11 IW 11-7
2018 Nat#45, B1G#8 4-14
2019 Nat#37, B1G#4 9-11

Not quite the argument that you were trying to make.


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Corrected. Boy, Tubby did have a dramatic fall off and Pitino's 2017 "off" year only had 2 recruits. Tubby never had a winning B1G record...
 

Corrected. Boy, Tubby did have a dramatic fall off and Pitino's 2017 "off" year only had 2 recruits. Tubby never had a winning B1G record...

I think the fact that sheet quantity of players affects the team rankings needs to be recognized. Great point alchemy.




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Yeah, I agree Coffey is more talented, and for the purposes of this thread he certainly represents the pinnacle of recruiting success in our recent history. For me though I put a higher value on Murphy for producing at a high level for a longer period of time. The fact that only 1 name sits above his on the all-time B1G rebounding list is pretty impactful.

Jordan Murphy will have his jersey hung up in the rafters, but I don't see the same for Coffey.

Corrected. Boy, Tubby did have a dramatic fall off and Pitino's 2017 "off" year only had 2 recruits. Tubby never had a winning B1G record...

I dont know how this became a Tubby vs Pitino thread, but since you mention it, tubby also never had a 2-16 record. Or a 4-14 one.
 

What I will say is this: making the tournament is one thing, but winning a tournament game is a major next level up from that. The buzz last spring when the Gophs were playing in the Round of 32 was a cool thing. Not just local but national. That's what gets you on kids' radar. No question it made a difference in recruiting. If there's a corner to be turned, it'll be making a Sweet 16. That could be a launching pad.

Yep.

Advance to the 2nd weekend, and the program will truly get noticed. ... perhaps most significantly by more of the quality local recruits (the ilk of Coffey, Oturu, Dawson, Holmgren, Heide, etc.) who might be looking for a reason to stick around.
 

Well, Pitino does own 2 of the worst records in the past 35 years. But, both had several mitigating circumstances.
However, He also owns the best single season record since the 1997 wiped clean season.

He now has the kind of depth necessary to be able to weather a few injuries or player losses and continue to win! Which is why, if he lands Garcia, I think he has turned the corner on moving on up in the conference.

Last year, after Curry went down, I felt comfortable with 7 players being on the floor. Maybe 8?

This year, I feel like without Curry, we have:

Carr
Willis
Kalesheur
Drexel guy
Oturu
Hurt
Williams
Ihnen
Greenlee - he is very surprising
Omersa
Freeman

Who could all play at least 5-10 minutes of quality B1G level ball! Biggest doubts being Freeman and Omersa, but they both can play defense for a stretch.
Add in next year's recruiting class and this number goes up! Hopefully, Pitino can find a way to keep them all happy and develop them.

Go Gophers!
 

Well, Pitino does own 2 of the worst records in the past 35 years. But, both had several mitigating circumstances.
However, He also owns the best single season record since the 1997 wiped clean season.

He now has the kind of depth necessary to be able to weather a few injuries or player losses and continue to win! Which is why, if he lands Garcia, I think he has turned the corner on moving on up in the conference.

Last year, after Curry went down, I felt comfortable with 7 players being on the floor. Maybe 8?

This year, I feel like without Curry, we have:

Carr
Willis
Kalesheur
Drexel guy
Oturu
Hurt
Williams
Ihnen
Greenlee - he is very surprising
Omersa
Freeman

Who could all play at least 5-10 minutes of quality B1G level ball! Biggest doubts being Freeman and Omersa, but they both can play defense for a stretch.
Add in next year's recruiting class and this number goes up! Hopefully, Pitino can find a way to keep them all happy and develop them.

Go Gophers!

Good post. Generally speaking, I agree with your points. But if this team loses Oturu, Gophers are screwed. He's gotta' stay healthy.
 
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Well, Pitino does own 2 of the worst records in the past 35 years. But, both had several mitigating circumstances.
However, He also owns the best single season record since the 1997 wiped clean season.

He now has the kind of depth necessary to be able to weather a few injuries or player losses and continue to win! Which is why, if he lands Garcia, I think he has turned the corner on moving on up in the conference.

Last year, after Curry went down, I felt comfortable with 7 players being on the floor. Maybe 8?

This year, I feel like without Curry, we have:

Carr
Willis
Kalesheur
Drexel guy
Oturu
Hurt
Williams
Ihnen
Greenlee - he is very surprising
Omersa
Freeman

Who could all play at least 5-10 minutes of quality B1G level ball! Biggest doubts being Freeman and Omersa, but they both can play defense for a stretch.
Add in next year's recruiting class and this number goes up! Hopefully, Pitino can find a way to keep them all happy and develop them.

Go Gophers!


A bunch of guys we haven't seen and a couple we have seen and shown nothing so far? I hope you are right and I haven't seen any of the new guys, so I can't comment on them.

Omersa probably a super solid Big Ten player unless he has improved dramatically. He is athletic, but had zero offensive game and his defense was very poor last year as well.
Hurt has shown to be what he is. Very low level Big Ten player, basically a guy to put in for 1-2 minutes while one of your starters needs a drink.

I mean, I'm with you the roster seems a little deeper this year. But I am still thinking this will be a tough season unless Carr is an absolute stud and Oturo learns how to stay out of foul trouble. If Carr comes in here
and is less than an all big ten type player, they will struggle big time.
 

A bunch of guys we haven't seen and a couple we have seen and shown nothing so far? I hope you are right and I haven't seen any of the new guys, so I can't comment on them.

Omersa probably a super solid Big Ten player unless he has improved dramatically. He is athletic, but had zero offensive game and his defense was very poor last year as well.
Hurt has shown to be what he is. Very low level Big Ten player, basically a guy to put in for 1-2 minutes while one of your starters needs a drink.

I mean, I'm with you the roster seems a little deeper this year. But I am still thinking this will be a tough season unless Carr is an absolute stud and Oturo learns how to stay out of foul trouble. If Carr comes in here
and is less than an all big ten type player, they will struggle big time.

Omersa showed he could play good defense against MSU last year with Murphy out.
 

One game does not a season or player make.

That said, the guy has physical tools. He "should" be able to defend.
What I saw last year though was a guy get dominated anytime he had to guard the post and someone who had more fouls than he did minutes alot of games.
 

One game does not a season or player make.

That said, the guy has physical tools. He "should" be able to defend.
What I saw last year though was a guy get dominated anytime he had to guard the post and someone who had more fouls than he did minutes alot of games.

His defense got better throughout the season and after an off season of strength and conditioning, plus a year to grasp new concepts, I'd find it hard to believe he won't be more than serviceable.
 

His defense got better throughout the season and after an off season of strength and conditioning, plus a year to grasp new concepts, I'd find it hard to believe he won't be more than serviceable.

I hope he has spent a LOT of time on free throws, shooting, layups, etc.


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I hope he has spent a LOT of time on free throws, shooting, layups, etc.


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Honest question here. Do you feel he hasn't? What would make this summer of work different than others?
 

Well, Pitino does own 2 of the worst records in the past 35 years. But, both had several mitigating circumstances.
However, He also owns the best single season record since the 1997 wiped clean season.

He now has the kind of depth necessary to be able to weather a few injuries or player losses and continue to win! Which is why, if he lands Garcia, I think he has turned the corner on moving on up in the conference.

Last year, after Curry went down, I felt comfortable with 7 players being on the floor. Maybe 8?

This year, I feel like without Curry, we have:

Carr
Willis
Kalesheur
Drexel guy
Oturu
Hurt
Williams
Ihnen
Greenlee - he is very surprising
Omersa
Freeman

Who could all play at least 5-10 minutes of quality B1G level ball! Biggest doubts being Freeman and Omersa, but they both can play defense for a stretch.
Add in next year's recruiting class and this number goes up! Hopefully, Pitino can find a way to keep them all happy and develop them.

Go Gophers!

Disagree on depth. What do we do if Oturu gets injured or is in foul trouble? We don’t have a proven big on the roster.
 

Honest question here. Do you feel he hasn't? What would make this summer of work different than others?

No idea, just hope that shooting has been a heavy concentration for him given how poorly he shoots. Some guys work harder than others. I hope he outworks everyone. He could be a really good player if he can improve his shooting.


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