Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 71

Thread: Fake Kneel

  1. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Slab_of_Bacon View Post
    It's not fair to the defensive players who are expected to not plow down dudes / not be plowed over and all sportsman like on a kneel.... unless the offense decides otherwise.
    I agree with this statement. If plays like this are allowed to happen, I certainly hope that we dont start seeing defensive players getting flagged for unnecessary roughness if they are doing what they need to to guard against this.


  2. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Livingat45north View Post
    Totally love this play. Great call, great time to do it, perfect execution, resulted in them winning the game. As for all the comments about the DL and OL having to actually play the snap, yes, that's what happens when you snap a football. If a QB takes a knee, then the ref blows the whistle and the play stops. In this play the QB rolled out, didn't fake taking a knee, whistle isn't blown, it's a live legit play that worked, and they won the game. Well done Tulane.
    Right, the DL blows up the OL the next time someone lines up in a victory formation, and they get unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, bad-mouthed in the media, and the coach takes a hit to his reputation while being called dirty. Yes, great point.

  3. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MNVCGUY View Post
    Here is the play in question for those that have not seen it. The only thing this formation is every used for is taking a knee.

    I saw the play and I know that that is what the formation is used for. But if you are going to ban running a play out of the kneel formation, you need a rule defining the kneel formation. As soon as you do that, any team interested in considering a play like this is going to start taking all of their kneels out of a formation that really is a kneel formation but falls outside of the definition. Probably some kind of modified wishbone.

  4. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Livingat45north View Post
    Totally love this play. Great call, great time to do it, perfect execution, resulted in them winning the game. As for all the comments about the DL and OL having to actually play the snap, yes, that's what happens when you snap a football. If a QB takes a knee, then the ref blows the whistle and the play stops. In this play the QB rolled out, didn't fake taking a knee, whistle isn't blown, it's a live legit play that worked, and they won the game. Well done Tulane.
    Except it isn't on these plays. Both sides typically stand up and play patty-cake. What happens when one side no longer plays along? The result is going to be what dpodoll states, and that isn't right.
    Last edited by GopherPoke; 09-20-2019 at 09:56 AM.

  5. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GopherPoke View Post
    Except it isn't on these plays. Both sides typically stand up and play patty-cake. What happens when one side no longer plays along? The result is going to be what dpodoll states, and that isn't right.
    Both sides did stand up and play patty-cake. It's not like the Oline blew off the line in this play and just pancaked the whole defense.

    Like I said why not just remove every trick play then? If your punter is out there you have to punt. If your field goal kicker is out there you have to kick. Wildcat? you have to run can't throw it!

    This play was genius and somewhat executed, should have been a TD if done properly.

    Should we take the fake spike out of football too?

  6. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bottlebass View Post
    Both sides did stand up and play patty-cake. It's not like the Oline blew off the line in this play and just pancaked the whole defense.

    Like I said why not just remove every trick play then? If your punter is out there you have to punt. If your field goal kicker is out there you have to kick. Wildcat? you have to run can't throw it!

    This play was genius and somewhat executed, should have been a TD if done properly.

    Should we take the fake spike out of football too?
    Totally agree. Great play by Tulane, led to them winning the game. I'm okay with adding a new "we're taking knee declaration" rule where they don't even bother snapping the ball, just like baseball's declaration of an intentional walk. For now though, play by the rules, which is what Tulane did. If a team is taking a knee, it's also totally fine for the DL to try to blow up the play, the OL should be ready for that. Once the knee is taken and the ref blows the whistle, then the play ends.

  7. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Livingat45north View Post
    Totally agree. Great play by Tulane, led to them winning the game. I'm okay with adding a new "we're taking knee declaration" rule where they don't even bother snapping the ball, just like baseball's declaration of an intentional walk. For now though, play by the rules, which is what Tulane did. If a team is taking a knee, it's also totally fine for the DL to try to blow up the play, the OL should be ready for that. Once the knee is taken and the ref blows the whistle, then the play ends.
    If you add that declaration in then it effectively eliminates this play.

  8. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bottlebass View Post
    If you add that declaration in then it effectively eliminates this play.
    And the surprise if not declared

  9. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bottlebass View Post
    If you add that declaration in then it effectively eliminates this play.
    I think the underlying point is that that it is silly if we are going to have a play where it is thought of as such a formality that defenses are going to be accused of bad sportsmanship if they even try on a play, but make the players go through the formality of having the play anyway. It's not fair to defenses to say "we expect you to lay down your swords and not actually play football, but you are in danger of getting burned if the offense runs the play."

    There are multiple valid perspectives on this issue, but I hope the people cheering the play aren't the same people who ripped Schiano when he had Tampa Bay trying to blow up kneel plays.

  10. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bottlebass View Post
    Both sides did stand up and play patty-cake. It's not like the Oline blew off the line in this play and just pancaked the whole defense.

    Like I said why not just remove every trick play then? If your punter is out there you have to punt. If your field goal kicker is out there you have to kick. Wildcat? you have to run can't throw it!

    This play was genius and somewhat executed, should have been a TD if done properly.

    Should we take the fake spike out of football too?
    The distinction in this is that all of the other trick or fake plays are run in full game speed situations where both teams are lined up for an actual play to occur and everyone is going hard.

    Victory formation is used to just run out the clock and end the game or half. It is a token play where the defense typically just lets the offense snap the ball and take a knee with little to no pressure of any kind being applied. Everyone lets up. Which is of course what Tulane exploited in this case and it worked for them. The didn't technically do anything illegal but anyone pretending this isn't at least a little shady is kidding themselves.

    The negative ramification to this for the remainder of this year is that it won't shock me one bit across college football to see defenses playing hard on victory formation snaps because you can bet coaching staffs are going to drill it into their heads that the offense might run a play. Adds to the potential for cheap shots and fights when some player on the offense gets blown up by a defensive lineman that isn't just letting up the way players have been conditioned to when a team lines up in that formation.

    How are you going to feel when the Gophers lineup in victory formation and the DT on the other team blows up Olson shoving him right back into a kneeling Morgan?

  11. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bleedsmaroonandgold View Post
    I think the underlying point is that that it is silly if we are going to have a play where it is thought of as such a formality that defenses are going to be accused of bad sportsmanship if they even try on a play, but make the players go through the formality of having the play anyway. It's not fair to defenses to say "we expect you to lay down your swords and not actually play football, but you are in danger of getting burned if the offense runs the play."

    There are multiple valid perspectives on this issue, but I hope the people cheering the play aren't the same people who ripped Schiano when he had Tampa Bay trying to blow up kneel plays.
    There is middle ground. The D can be ready for these fakes without blowing up the Oline. No one is running this fake play if the line to gain is so short that a 5 yard gain makes a difference in a game.

    And the gophers fumble the snap all the time so the play is far from a formality...

  12. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dpodoll68 View Post
    Right, the DL blows up the OL the next time someone lines up in a victory formation, and they get unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, bad-mouthed in the media, and the coach takes a hit to his reputation while being called dirty. Yes, great point.
    Oh no. We must protect coaches reputations first and foremost.

  13. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement Gopher View Post
    Oh no. We must protect coaches reputations first and foremost.
    He mentioned more than that.

  14. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MNVCGUY View Post
    The distinction in this is that all of the other trick or fake plays are run in full game speed situations where both teams are lined up for an actual play to occur and everyone is going hard.

    Victory formation is used to just run out the clock and end the game or half. It is a token play where the defense typically just lets the offense snap the ball and take a knee with little to no pressure of any kind being applied. Everyone lets up. Which is of course what Tulane exploited in this case and it worked for them. The didn't technically do anything illegal but anyone pretending this isn't at least a little shady is kidding themselves.

    The negative ramification to this for the remainder of this year is that it won't shock me one bit across college football to see defenses playing hard on victory formation snaps because you can bet coaching staffs are going to drill it into their heads that the offense might run a play. Adds to the potential for cheap shots and fights when some player on the offense gets blown up by a defensive lineman that isn't just letting up the way players have been conditioned to when a team lines up in that formation.

    How are you going to feel when the Gophers lineup in victory formation and the DT on the other team blows up Olson shoving him right back into a kneeling Morgan?
    Literally nothing shady about this play. The defense could have defended it by having line backers on the outside. The defense wouldnt' have to blow up an Oline to stop this play or need to blow up an oline in the future during an actual kneeling because they were worried about this play. They just have to have situational awareness.

    And to answer your last question I'll be happy we actually made it in a game to victory formation instead of needing a long TD drive to tie or win...

  15. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bleedsmaroonandgold View Post
    There are multiple valid perspectives on this issue, but I hope the people cheering the play aren't the same people who ripped Schiano when he had Tampa Bay trying to blow up kneel plays.
    Bingo.

    Schiano was destroyed in the media for doing that. I mean, just obliterated. And that's why this play was bush league - the defense can't do anything to stop it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •